It's worse than you thought

[woodchip]

Did you realize that the DHS has declared that if you are within 100 miles of the boarder you, your vehicle and electronic devices can be searched with no warrant?

"The Department of Homeland Security now considers any area within a 100 mile radius of the entire US border to be what the ACLU has described as a “constitution free zone,” where 4th amendment legal protection from unconstitutional searches and seizures does not apply."

"While driving in the middle of nowhere, Christiansen was pulled over by Border Patrol agents who demanded she step out so they could perform a search of the vehicle. Christiansen’s demands to know why she was pulled over fell on deaf ears as agents continued to insist she exit the vehicle."

“Then he comes up to my seatbelt, pulls out a knife and says, “Ma’am, do I need to cut you out of your seatbelt?” and I was like, “No, you don’t need to do anything like that.” I was like, “All you need to do is tell me why you pulled me over, you know? This is ridiculous. I got 2 young kids in the car,” said Christiansen."

"The video does not explain whether or not Christiansen eventually consented to the search of her vehicle, although it does add that Border Patrol agents deliberately slashed her tire with a knife, presumably as a form of retaliation against the fact that Christiansen did not immediately comply with their demands."
http://www.infowars.com/border-patrol-t ... ife-taser/

"At an Amtrak inspection point, Pascal Abidor showed his U.S. passport to a federal agent. He was ordered to move to the cafe car, where they removed his laptop from his luggage and “ordered Mr. Abidor to enter his password,” according to the lawsuit.

Agents asked him about pictures they found on his laptop, which included Hamas and Hezbollah rallies. He explained that he was earning a doctoral degree at a Canadian university on the topic of the modern history of Shiites in Lebanon.

He was handcuffed and then jailed for three hours while the authorities looked through his computer while numerous agents questioned him, according to the suit, which is pending in New York federal court."
http://www.wired.com/2013/02/electronic ... -seizures/

As the old saying goes, you lose your liberties one step at a time. So what is to stop the DHS from extending the 100 mile zone to 200 miles? A 1000 miles? What is apparent we have already lost our liberties...most of you just don't realize it yet.

[callmeslick]

Did you realize that the DHS has declared that if you are within 100 miles of the boarder you, your vehicle and electronic devices can be searched with no warrant?

what if you don't have any boarders? Does my daughter count?

[woodchip]

Perhaps I'll start being a Nazis spelling schmuck and keep a eye on your spelling. Good to see you are more concerned with my mis-spelling of a word than having your civil liberties disappear.

[callmeslick]

look, Woody, if you just now are sensitive to civil liberties being eroded, I'm here to tell you that horse left the barn at least 13 years ago.

[woodchip]

I knew they were being eroded, but all the soil being washed away? Nope.

[callmeslick]

as you rightly noted, it's a slippery slope, and we've been really heading down that slope since 1942, if you look into it.....all in the name of 'security'. Didn't someone famous once say that he who will give up freedom for security deserves neither?

[woodchip]

The sad part is, with liberty gone, who do we now need fear the most...terrorists or our own govt.?

[callmeslick]

The sad part is, with liberty gone, who do we now need fear the most...terrorists or our own govt.?

likely the latter, someplace down the road(I don't for a minute think the current bunch to be particularly dangerous). I've been saying since the dawn of the Patriot Act that we essentially let the terrorists win the war when we willingly gave up so much liberty in one fell swoop.

[Tunnelcat]

likely the latter, someplace down the road(I don't for a minute think the current bunch to be particularly dangerous). I've been saying since the dawn of the Patriot Act that we essentially let the terrorists win the war when we willingly gave up so much liberty in one fell swoop.

Such a nice, comfortable feeling now, protection at the expense of freedom.

They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

The sad part is, with liberty gone, who do we now need fear the most...terrorists or our own govt.?

Were you afraid back when the Patriot Act was debated and passed, or has it finally sunk in what Dubya and Congress wrought, all in the name of national security?

[callmeslick]

As I stated, TC, this process started with the Manhattan Project, and all GWB/Cheney et al did was step on the accelerator.

[woodchip]

And Obama put it into high gear.

[woodchip]

And it seems to get worse. Now we have a Montana rancher who has grazed cattle on public lands (for a fee) since 1870. Now he has them being forcibly removed because the land was declared a critical habitat for the Desert Tortoise:

"A two-decades-old battle between a Nevada rancher and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has resulted in officials armed with machine guns surrounding the ranch and forcibly removing the owner’s cattle, according to the"

"This afternoon eight helicopters surrounded the family after they began taking pictures, according to Bundy’s daughter, Bailey. Their son, Dave Bundy, was arrested for taking pictures on state road 170, which has been closed, and is being held by BLM."
http://freebeacon.com/issues/last-man-standing/

I say just machine gun the family aka Ruby Ridge and be done with it.

[callmeslick]

And it seems to get worse. Now we have a Montana rancher who has grazed cattle on public lands (for a fee) since 1870. Now he has them being forcibly removed because the land was declared a critical habitat for the Desert Tortoise:

and this is something new? We have entire offshore barrier islands closed to protect plovers in VA, there was a major interstate re-routed in the 1980s due to some sort of frog's habitat. That is the(rather minor) cost of environmental awareness.

"A two-decades-old battle between a Nevada rancher and the Bureau of Land Management (BLM) has resulted in officials armed with machine guns surrounding the ranch and forcibly removing the owner’s cattle, according to the"

"This afternoon eight helicopters surrounded the family after they began taking pictures, according to Bundy’s daughter, Bailey. Their son, Dave Bundy, was arrested for taking pictures on state road 170, which has been closed, and is being held by BLM."
http://freebeacon.com/issues/last-man-standing/

I say just machine gun the family aka Ruby Ridge and be done with it.

look, if someone spends years fighting the gubmint, loses in every court and still wishes to thumb his/her nose at the law of the land, they get what they deserve. Which is EXACTLY what happened at Ruby Ridge.

[woodchip]

I see you are clueless about Ruby Ridge if you think a mother holding her child deserved to be murdered by a govt. sniper.

[Will Robinson]

slick is ok with the government recklessly wading armed into a confrontation. Ruby Ridge was a 'good bloodbath' according to him.
Unless, of course, he finds out a Repub was somehow in charge of the operation.

[callmeslick]

slick is ok with the government recklessly wading armed into a confrontation. Ruby Ridge was a 'good bloodbath' according to him.
Unless, of course, he finds out a Repub was somehow in charge of the operation.

not so much a 'good' anything. Just my thinking that if you wish to arm yourself, threaten the government and refuse to obey the laws(and that, for the mother, includes going along with someone doing such things), you risk personal harm. Committing a bunch of crimes is always dangerous, and that is EXACTLY what led to Ruby Ridge. It wasn't like they were law abiding citizens.

[woodchip]

Sounds like the Govt didn't have much of a case to begin with:


"Weaver was charged with multiple crimes relating to the Ruby Ridge incident, a total of ten counts including the original firearms charges and murder. Attorney Gerry Spence handled Weaver's defense, and argued successfully that Weaver's actions were justifiable as self-defense. The judge dismissed two counts after hearing prosecution witness testimony. The jury acquitted Weaver of all remaining charges except two, one of which the judge set aside. Weaver was found guilty of one count, failure to appear, for which Weaver was fined $10,000 and sentenced to 18 months in prison. He was credited with time served plus an additional three months, and was then released. Kevin Harris was acquitted of all criminal charges.[21]

In August 1995, the US government avoided trial on a civil lawsuit filed by the Weavers, by awarding the three surviving daughters $1,000,000 each, and Randy Weaver $100,000 over the deaths of Sammy and Vicki Weaver. The attorney for Kevin Harris pressed Harris' civil suit for damages, although federal officials vowed they would never pay someone who had killed a U.S. Marshal (Harris had been acquitted by a jury trial on grounds of self-defense). In September 2000 after persistent appeals, Harris was awarded a $380,000 settlement from the government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Weaver

What you had were agents that wanted to bring Weaver to heel and when he wouldn't be their trained dog, inept agents killed innocent people.