DescentBB

with there being a topic going on lately about the same old ★■◆● in the E&C forum, i thought i'd try something new.

i've never been one to really give 2 shits about the politics discussed here on this forum, but i've seen all of these terms thrown around here that i've heard thrown around elsewhere, but again with the giving 2 shits i never paid much attention to them.

out of curiosity, what am i? lefty or righty? repub or dem? liberal or conservative? i've never bothered to look up the meaning behind these terms nor classify myself, are those 3 pairs all essentially the same thing? are there terms i left out that i am unaware of?

...so after thinking about a topic that would be different for the E&C but not be deleted upon sight, i figured i'd try this. so go ahead, classify away. i'd like to know.

Are you asking us to classify you or ourselves?

From what I remember from your posting you don't fit either party's mold too well. That's probably a good thing!

Here's a little test that could shed light on what you are.

http://www.politicalcompass.org

By this test, I'm mostly toward the origin, but slightly down into the libertarian/left quadrant.

You're a Democrat waiting to happen.

kurupt wrote:lefty or righty? repub or dem? liberal or conservative?

You forgot, "good or evil?".

Kyouryuu wrote:Here's a little test that could shed light on what you are.

http://www.politicalcompass.org

By this test, I'm mostly toward the origin, but slightly down into the libertarian/left quadrant.

Thanks for the link. I'm moderately left, and somewhat libertarian. Feels about right.

These tests are always hard, though, because some questions you can't honestly answer with any of the choices.

I am -4, -4 on that chart. Closest to Ghandi, Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama. heh

I ended up dead center left/right but -3 on the vertical toward libertarian/anarchy.

I must be losing my touch, that test has me as a softie

Me too, it's got me nailed with the Pope.

I'm somewhere in between nelson mandela and the dalai lama

I took that quiz a couple weeks ago and ended up just left of center by the tiniest of margins -- something like (-.8,+.1). This time I ended up just a tiny bit below the center at (-.1,-.9). This should tell you something -- I'm reasonably conservative, but I test pretty close to dead center on their quiz (never more than 1 unit away.)

But then, I get the feeling that I read a lot of the lines there and mean something entirely different than they do.

For example, they have the "eye for eye / tooth for tooth" line that people use so often. I agree with that line, but I have to answer "strongly disagree" to get them to count it right, because I know they count it as support for capital punishment, while I read it as a limitation on punishment.

There are also odd 2-part lines where I have no idea how the 2 parts coincide, such as "Everyone has their rights, but it is better for all of us that different sorts of people should keep to their own kind." How the heck do the 2 parts of that sentence actually relate to each other? Their FAQ actually says of such vague statements "Their purpose is to trigger buzzwords in the mind of the user, measuring feelings and prejudices rather than detailed opinions on policy." No wonder it has trouble measuring me -- I see those phrases and I'm like "cut the BS and tell me what you actually mean."

It also doesn't let you describe in which direction you disagree. For example, "It's fine for society to be open about sex, but these days it's going too far." I disagree -- I think society has gone about the right distance in being open about sex, just in the wrong direction. Yet that'll get counted the same as if someone said "society shouldn't be open about sex" or "society hasn't gone far enough".

All this is to say, it's hard to get a good reading of your political standing from a quiz.

I'd say, if you want to know where you stand right/left, you just need to see what you think of the fundamental ideas behind each side. If I had the time, I'd write up a description of what I think they are...

Economic Left/Right: -4.88
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.95

Good grief i'm knackered, i'm off to bed.

Will Robinson wrote:I ended up dead center left/right but -3 on the vertical toward libertarian/anarchy.

I must be losing my touch, that test has me as a softie

That's roughly the same position I got last time I took it.

Yeah, I was centered vertically and a notch to the left, which was bizarre, since I generally consider myself conservative.

It needed a 'neither' option for some of the questions.

What it actually needed was a "this sentence is just a whole bunch of buzzwords" answer, and a "agree in on sense and disagree in another sense" answer.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need is a fundamentally good idea." - Translation: "Are you a proponent of communism?!"

I know that this isn't meant to be totally exact, but trying to ascertain someone's political stances using questions like these, and agree\disagree answers, might be compared to attempting to carve out a Mount Rushmore using a trebuchet!

I felt as if some of the questions were merely stating facts, and I was being asked whether or not this is true, instead of whether or not this is right. I don't like having to read into the questions, or having to second guess.

It is hard to classify yourself politically, because on one issue, you might find agreement with a more left/liberal stance, and on another you may find more agreement with a right/conservative stance. I suppose you can add up all the issues, working in how important a certain issue is, and find an average, but whatever that average might be, it may not describe your position on an issue.

I tend to identify myself as Center-Left.

Socially, I'm left/liberal. I think the government basically shouldn't mandate social behavior, within reason (when your liberties rub up against someone elses right of self determination). And when in doubt about an issue personally, I tend to side on letting people decide for themselves whether or not something is right or wrong. Abortion is a good example of this for me. I personally don't like the thought of abortion, and would do everything in my power to not let my spouse choose this option, but I refuse to mandate that judgement for someone else.

Fiscally, I'm probably center/moderate. I think there are issues that a central government is best placed to handle, and I think public money should be appropriated to do so, within reason, of course. I believe there should be a balance between what a government should be mandated to do, vs what a free market society can provide. In theory, a free market should be left to its own devices to either sink or swim, but I think it is in our best interests to help make sure American's are swimmers, even if that includes providing floatation devices.

I've taken that politicalcompass test a couple times, and have gotten similar results. It pegged me near Ghandi.

I classify myself as a "If it doesn't impact you, then it's none of your business" and a Personal Responsibility advocate. Meaning: If I snort crank in my home...it's none of your business. If I snort crank in my home, then go out and crash into a family of six, then I should be held responsible, not the drug. (These 'blanket laws', like the pathetic no-cellphone law, sicken me).

I thought that meant Liberatarian, but from some of the comments I've read, Liberatarian doesn't mean that anymore?

edit: What Vander said...

Economic Left/Right: -2.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.69

well, looks like i'm near the middle, slightly left.

however, that site really didn't tell me much. what does near the middle, slightly left actually mean?

Jeff250 said:
"I felt as if some of the questions were merely stating facts, and I was being asked whether or not this is true, instead of whether or not this is right."

I certainly agree. Some weird stuff on there, like: "The prime function of schooling is to equip the future generation to find jobs."
Is it asking whether I think that should be the prime function, or IS it?

"Astrology accurately explains many things."

WTF? I guess that's a "leftist" question. LOL. And the religion one following it was "right".

Economic Left/Right: -4.38
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.13

I'm wondering what would be considered economic right. I'm also curious as to how Hitler practiced Keynsian economics, as the author claims

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -2.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.21

Very interesting results considering I should be closer to Geroge Bush but instead very near to the Pope.

But as someone mentioned somewhere at the top, it depends. Im left on a few issues and right on others (I think most).

But this is just some internet test some group of people came up with, so PFFFFT!

kurupt wrote:however, that site really didn't tell me much. what does near the middle, slightly left actually mean?

Means your a nice, easy-going guy.

kurupt, it means you're politically similar to me :P

Um... I guess that means the test is broken.

yeah, definately broken.

here, try this one

I got 80/80

oh man... the libertarian propaganda quiz is one of my most hated quizzes. I like this response to it...

I got 0/30 on the Libertarian quiz this time.

Authoritarians want government to advance society and individuals through expert central planning. They often doubt whether self-government is practical. Left-authoritarians are also called socialists, while fascists are right-authoritarians.

Heh... that's *so* not me.

I think most political quizzes have the same problem: most of us don't think in absolutes. They have lines like "Drug laws do more harm than good" -- but most of us think in terms of "most drug laws are harmful but some should remain" or "most drug laws are OK but some are harmful". The quiz doesn't test us on the "yeah, but..." part of our response.

80/10 here. heh

Well Lothar it did move you and Kurupt back apart so it can't be all wrong

Also, the questions are a lot more black and white so you can compare results with a little more confidence in the medium.

the only thing i can say i wholeheartedly agree with Lothar on is d1 > d2, d3.

i'm of the kill em all, smack that annoying kid, bring on the porn mindset, yet we are somehow alot alike. i wonder what secret thing we have in common?

90/20

well, me and goob are nearly a perfect match. no surprise there. <3 baby.

You can't go around putting yourself under a political umbrella just for the sake of alligning yourself with a side...you've gotta just look at issues and feel what is right for you

I very deliberately said could in my original post. No Internet test can magically determine on what side of the political spectrum you fall on. It's just amusing to see what can result, though.

Wow, that test was pretty wacky. At least morally speaking, I consider myself conservative-bordering-on-fanatic, and that test rated me dead center. Maybe because I said "no" to all the racism questions? Really weird if you ask me.

I agree with Goob about the first quiz--I felt a lot of those questions were complex questions. I needed "no opinion", "neither", "both equally", and "what the heck are you asking?" buttons. I also felt it was warped in another way--no sensetivity to nuance. It asked me two or three questions about racism, but they seemed entirely designed to test whether or not I was a racist--which is a "right wing wacko" vs. "the rest of the world" distinction. And then it neglected to measure such things as how I felt about how racial reconciliation ought to be accomplished, which is a fairer right/left breakdown question. If they put the center just to the left of "right wing wacko," small wonder I ended up in the center--I'm barely two hairs left of right wing wacko.

The right/left breakdown as I see it is based on a series of issues, and it's hard to find a common thread that runs through them. Some of the themes on the left are large government and individual freedom with respect to expression and privacy, while some on the right are traditional moral values and individual freedom with respect to property. I've also perceived the left to lean more towards entitlement--the government should take care of you--and the right to lean more towards personal responsibility--you should take care of yourself. But those are just themes, and certainly not every issue breaks down where you'd expect it to.

As a result, most people don't find that they're purebred right or left, but "tend to side with the left most of the time" and so forth. A quiz doesn't really measure that, and just gives you a single rating.

Another problem with a quiz is that if you're a right wing nut half the time and a left wing nut the other half the time, you end up looking like a centerist, rather than the apolitical nut you are. Probably a better way to get a feel for it than a quiz is to look at a variety of issues, and see which side you end up agreeing with a lot--and more importantly, why.

Here are some illuminating questions, as I see things. Bear in mind that my analysis is probably as biased as anyone's, both in the questions I ask, and in my analysis of those questions. That is, though I consider myself a fair-minded person and I strive to write honestly, bear in mind that this quiz *is* written by someone who describes herself with such phrases as "two hairs left of a right wing nut"...



(1) How do you feel about the death penalty?

The left feels you shouldn't have it, and the right feels that you should. The more you feel you should *never* have it under *any* circumstance, the farther you are toward the left; the more you feel that it should be frequent and easy, the farther you are toward the right. A centerist would probably feel that it was justified in a small number of cases, and should be heavily controlled and regulated.


(2) How do you feel about the relationship between the races--and in particular, how do you feel about affirmative action?

In a nutshell, the left feels that affirmative action is helping the race situation, and the right feels that it's hurting it. The more you feel that racism is rampant, and that laws need to be passed to keep whites from oppressing others, the farther you are to the left. The more you feel that racism is basically a solved problem, and that any economic disparities will take care of themselves, the farther you are to the right. You enter right wing wacko country when you begin to say, "You know, maybe the racists are right..."

It seems to me (and I may be wrong) that the left on this issue thinks that if we can remedy the economic differences between races (i.e., blacks tending to be lower income), then the social problems (racial tension, lingering racism) will take care of themselves. The right, on the other hand, thinks that we need to remedy the social problems--get people of different races to treat each other kindly or even to ignore race in their interactions--and the economic problems will then take care of themselves. (Fellow DBB'ers of all wings check me here--is that a good synopsis of the situation?)


(3) How do you feel about homosexuality? How do you feel about homosexual marriage?

The left feels that homosexuality is noble, and the right feels that it's degrading. The more you feel that homosexuality is a good thing, or that it's equal to heterosexuality, the farther you are to the left; the more you feel that it's a bad thing, and inferior to heterosexuality, the farther you are to the right.

Likewise, the left feels that homosexual marriage is a good thing, a right due homosexuals. The right feels that homosexual marriage is a bad thing, an assault on traditional marriage. It's hard to draw up a very centerist stance on this issue, but promoting civil unions for gays instead of marriage is a center-left idea, and permitting homosexuality while allowing homosexual relationships no governmental recognition is a center-right idea.


(4) How do you feel about the relationship between religion and government?

The left feels that religion and government ought to have nothing to do with each other, and the right doesn't mind them associating a bit. The left comes down against things like prayer in schools, or judges displaying monuments of the ten commandments; the right comes down allowing faith-based laws. Really, it comes down to the first amendment's two balancing clauses, that the government should not establish a religion, and that it should not inhibit religious expression. The more heavily you weigh the first clause, the farther you are to the left. (Do you feel it means the government shouldn't give funding to a particular church, or do you go so far as to say it means public officals should have no religious affiliation whatsoever?) On the other hand, the more heavily you weight the second phrase, the farther you are to the right. (Do you think leaders of state sponsored institutions ought to be able to lead public prayer? Do you go so far as to say lawmakers ought to be able to make laws based on their religious views?) Quite frankly, I don't even *know* where center is on this issue, because I'm so far to the right. Somebody else point it out, please.


(5) How do you feel about abortion?

The left feels that abortions are okay, and the right feels that they aren't. The more you feel that abortions ought to be accessible, common, allowed late term, etc., the farther you are to the left. The more you feel abortions ought to be illegal even early term or in situations like a pregnancy resulting from rape, the farther you are to the right. The left values the rights of the woman higher, while the right values the life of the unborn higher. If one completely overwhelms the other for you, then you are far to that side. A good example of a centerish position was Clinton's "safe, legal and rare" stance.


(6) How do you feel about gun control?

The more you feel that guns should be regulated or even removed from the population, the farther you are to the left. The more you feel that guns should be available (in potentially very large sizes!), the farther you are to the right. The main values here seem to be public safety versus personal liberty.


(7) How do you feel about how much the government should tax you?

The left feels that taxes ought to be high, and the government ought to provide lots of services. The right feels that taxes ought to be low, and private individuals and corporations ought to provide lots of services. Left wacko country starts when you endorse socialism.


( 8 ) How do you feel about who the government should tax?

The left feels that the government should tax the rich lots, lots more than the poor, and the right feels that the government should tax the rich quite a bit more than the poor. This is kind of a funny issue due to the similarity there, but the right question to ask is, do you think the rich are bearing an appropriate tax burden? If you feel they're paying too little, you're on the left; if you feel they're paying too much, you're on the right. (As it stands, the rich pay quite a lot more than the poor...) If you want to tax the rich so much and give the poor so much that the society becomes effectively communist, then you're *way* to the left.


(9) How do you feel about drug laws?

The left feels that a lot of drugs ought to be legal, while the right thinks they ought to be illegal. The more serious drugs you think ought to be legal, and and the more you think should be available for recreational (as opposed to medicinal) purposes, the farther to the left you are. Marijuana seems to be about where the line is drawn. Bizarrely, though (and I do not understand this), the sides seem to reverse when it comes to tobacco--it's voices on the *left* I hear wanting to make the companies liable for cancer and such, and voices on the *right* celebrating the liberty to mess up your health if you want to. Somebody who has a better understanding of the logic here might want to explain a little better, so in the mean time suffice it to say that the drug issue's complex.


There are probably more and better questions to ask. I understand welfare is an issue that breaks down right/left, but I don't understand it well enough to even be able to ask the right question, let alone give a fair analysis of the situation. And there are probably others I've forgotten--I tend to leave out economic considerations because I don't understand them or don't care about them. Feel free to comment on anything I've missed. But that's a start from my perspective, and certainly essay answers allow for a more nuanced understanding of the view.



My scores--
Death penalty: Two hairs short of right wing wacko. I'd like to see a lot more of the death penalty, a lot more consistently than we have it.

Race: Solid righty. I value social reconciliation, and think that evening up economoic statistics is pointless. But I acknowledge that racism still exists and is bad.

Homosexuality: Right wing wacko. I think homosexuality itself is wrong, and wouldn't mind laws that said so. But I'm also content understanding that society doesn't agree with me, and I like living in a society that allows sexual freedom in privacy. Oddly enough, I really like the idea of civil unions for homosexuals, which is a leftish position, but I take it for rightish reasons--that I want to protect marriage in name, but propogate it in spirit: I want to have some social institution that keeps non-traditional families together, while still recognizing that they're non-traditional families.

Religion & government: Right wing nut, definitely. Not only do I like faith based initiatives, I think they're the only sensible way to run a government.

Abortion: Far righty. I'll admit abortion when the life of the mother's in jeapoardy, and that's about it.

Gun control: Centerish, leaning probably a bit left. I don't think I'd really mind an unarmed population, and the public safety idea has merit. But I also think people ought to have access at least to guns for various self-defense and recreational reasons. I do think the second amendment idea of a militia to keep the government in check is just a *tad* dated...

Taxes (amount): Slight righty. I don't really care, but I trust the people more than the government doing most things.

Taxes (who): Neutral. I don't feel I know enough to be able to make a fair judgement on the issue.

Drugs: Solid righty. I like the drug laws the way they are, for the most part. Keep the ones that can really mess you up illegal.


Overall, I tend to lean pretty far to the right. Really, I kind of like being a wacko--it means I *really* believe the things I believe

thank you Drakona, that summed it up way better than anything i've come across yet!

my scores:

death penalty: "Two hairs short of right wing wacko." Maybe one. I'd like to see a lot more of the death penalty as well, serious criminals who are beyond help need not waste our tax dollars on raping and killing other inmates who may be able to be rehabilitated until they die of old age. That's alot of wasted money, lets just remove the problem and be done with it.

race: i'm fairly centralized on that one. i think racism is deader than it ever has been, but not gone. i think when the current generation of 20 somethings become the seniors, racism in this country will just be a blemish in the history books. sure, there are racists my age, but for every 1000 racists from the previous generations there's only 1 from mine.

i'm no fan of affirmative action either, in my experiences both being hired and doing the hiring, white males are severely discriminated against. you can have an identical application except in the race column and the minority will get the job most of the time. that needs to be eliminated. i say interview them both and make your decision based on who you think better fits the position, not based on fear of a discrimination cry afterward. i was forced to interview alot of underqualified minorities becuase my boss at the time threw out 9 out of every 10 applications from white males just becuase he saw a W in the box. that has to end. i think affirmative action served its purpose when it was created, but is no longer a necessity. it striked fear into the hearts of employers more than anything.

definately central. need to focus on both social and economical, not just one.

homosexuality: centralized. i personally don't understand gay people, and don't care much for hot lesbian action. but, i feel that if it makes alot of people happy and does not affect me in any way other than maybe being grossed out in public once in awhile, then have at it. i get grossed out by smelly crackheads on the corner all the time and i'm not calling for every smelly crackheads rights, so i can tolerate and ignore a little male on male kissing. i think they should have the same restrictions as a hetero couple does though, with the indecent exposure laws and whatnot. don't let them cry gay rights to the point where they get special treatment, but let them have the same right's a hetero couple does. i'm not religious, so the sanctity of marriage doesn't apply to me, so on that particular issue i don't really care. i see no reason to care.

religion & government: left wing bastard, with an inner centralist hidden somewhere. i think religion is based on the need of humanity to have purpose and fulfilment, but not based on truth. 99% of the time religion helps alot more than it hurts, so i say have all the religion you desire. as long as you let me have my beliefs and respect my advice to not bother me over it. and i definatley do not want it integrated into government. i can picture governemtns of other countries going to war over what the holy book of their religion says, but i can not picture the united states doing so. i want that to never change. that's the leftist in me. i value logical thought over WWJD.

however, if a church or other religious institution helps alot of people, and they need federal funding, let them have it, as long as it is voted on by myself and my peers. if most of us think giving said religious institution some money is worthwhile, then give it to them. if we don't then don't. don't say they can or can't have it becuase of what the first amendment says, say they can or can't have it based on what the people say.

i also think prayer in schools is fine, if time is set aside for it and the people not wishing to participate were given free time to study, or do their schoolwork, or go to the bathroom, or what have you. the pledge is fine, if you don't want to say it just stand silently and respectfully. it's focused on america, not christianity, if you don't like it get the ★■◆● out. if government officials are religious, fine. as long as they keep it mostly in their private lives. i don't mind the mention of god in a speech, but don't start a religious crusade with our troops. these things are where i'm pretty central, becuase i have a pretty even mix of left and right.

abortion: central. i view it as horrific and if you try to abort my baby we have problems, but i'm not about to tell someone else what they can and can't do and expect them not to give me the old .!..

Gun control: Centerish, leaning probably a bit left. I don't think I'd really mind an unarmed population, and the public safety idea has merit. But I also think people ought to have access at least to guns for various self-defense and recreational reasons. I do think the second amendment idea of a militia to keep the government in check is just a *tad* dated... copy and pasted in agreement. the only thing i'd add is that i don't think any military weapons need to be incorporated into civillian life. lets not give billy-bob rocket propelled grenade launchers.

Taxes: pretty central, slightly off to the left i guess. I don't really care either, as long as they aren't taking so much i can't pay my bills, and they're using it for my benefit in some way or another. i like smooth roads and clean air. thats a good start.

i think the rich should be taxed a little more becuase they can afford to be. if you tax someone making 5 bucks an hour the same you tax someone making 50 bucks an hour, we're either not getting enough tax dollars into the government or we're severely raping the burger flipper of his ability to live somehwere besides a dumpster.

Drugs: more righty than lefty. I like the drug laws the way they are too, for the most part. i think the drinking age should be reduced to 18. i'm already of age, so that isn't why. it's that i think if someone is old enough to be sent to the battlefield, they should be allowed to drink. give them that privelage. i know the military does, but why not extend that to civilian life? 18 year olds drink all the time anyway. if someone wants to they will, and we cant stop it.

i think marijuana should not be legalized, but not for the same reasons as most. i think its about as harmless/harmful as alcohol, which is legal. therefore legal, right? nope. i mean come on, why spend the resources getting it legalized? are you having trouble finding it?!!? alot of the small time drug busts consist of the stop, the confiscation, the warning or arrest and minor community service time (not a bad thing for society, is it?). every day people who like to get high, fine by me. most of the big time drug dealers aren't very good people, and i think the police should have the ability to take them off the streets over marijuana. a pretty silly thing to go down for when you get away with pimping, killing, and raping any and everything, but i'll take it. i think the laws are just fine the way they are.

hardcore drugs should remain illegal. party drugs too. i like party drugs, and i have no problem finding them. they arent taxed and the prices are competative, just as i suspect mary jane to be (i don't know, don't smoke). so why change that?

overall:

pretty much central, a teeny bit left. a far right and a far left, a few slightly lefts and a slightly right, but mostly a central kind of guy. i suppose i expected that, as i'm a pretty laid back person. but it's nice to put a little bit of meaning behind the terms that get thrown around so much.

I pretty much share Drakona's sum-up, except for one or two discrepencies. By Drakona's scale, I would be pretty far left on the death penalty issue, as I believe that it is not necessary, that it costs more than a life sentence would, and that it possibly is a form of "cruel and unusual punishment." I used to be more in favor of the death penalty until watching the movie "Dead Man Walking." Now, I'm more unsure of my stance. I agree with Drakona on race and homosexuality, except that I don't favor civil unions, either. I guess my view is pretty much in line with that of my Catholic faith: that homosexuality in and of itself is not wrong, but homosexual actions are wrong. (Actually, this goes both ways, as the Catholic Church teaches that any sexual activity outside of marriage, between a man and a woman, is wrong.)

On gun control, I'm strongly right. As the t-shirt from "Happy Gilmore" said, "Guns don't kill people; I kill people." I see nothing wrong with the freedom to own heavier weapons, provided a background check is done, of course.

I'm completely hopeless with economics, and I understand little of the stock market/taxes/world trade, so I can't comment on that .

I'm about as far right-wing as it gets on abortion. I would favor outlawing it under any circumstances, including rape and incest. (How can you punish an unborn child for the sins of another?) From what I understand, the health of the mother circumstance is so rare as to be a non-issue.

I agree with Drakona's stance on faith and government (there needs to be more interaction, not a higher wall), and I also favor keeping currently illegal drugs illegal. As for the smoking issue, I'm in agreement with Drakona's evaluation of the apparent reversal of views. I don't think tobacco companies should be held accountable for smoking-related illness; that's like holding McDonald's accountable for obesity . In either case, everyone knows that the product is unhealthy, and no one is forced to use it. It's time that people in this country took some more personal responsibility and stopped being so suit-happy.

I guess all of this makes me seem "wacko right-winger" to most of you, but I see myself as a solid conservative with traditional values.

Edit: Kurupt beat me in there . I like your views on the pledge of allegiance and prayer in public schools, as well as federal funding for religiously affiliated relief organizations. It still beats me how one atheist in this country could get the pledge of allegiance declared unconstitutional. The vast majority of people want it; live with it or leave, buddy .

Top Gun, a life sentence can cost over $75k a year. How is that less than $15 worth of lethal injection?

Tobacco companies lied saying tobacco was not addictive, that's why they were made liable.

Prayer does not belong in public schools. I'm not Christian, there are plenty of people that aren't Christian. If you want to pray, pray before you go to school. Go toa private, Christian school. I don't see how that is such a hard concept to understand. Otherwise, just outlaw any non-Christian religion and be done with it.

Testiculese, you're forgetting the millions spent on court fees, prosecutors, the appeals process, etc. All of that adds up, and the taxpayers have to put the bill. There's been studies done that compare the price of both, and the results come out in favor of life sentences. I don't have a source myself, but I'm sure Google does .