DescentBB

....for the absolute moron who is Rep. Broun of Georgia, who referred to teaching of evolution as a Satanic plot. He's leaving the House, and amazingly enough the Science Advisory Committee(yowza!), so I figured his replacement couldn't touch him for lunacy. I was wrong.....
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/201 ... gia-sodomy

won't this guy be an asset, as we count on Congress to help steer the Ship of State!!

Sounds like my kind of guy.

[/thread]

(Foil, you might as well just preemptively lock this one down.)

Can we reclassify the Deep South as a third-world territory? It'd fit really damn well.

I'm all for it. just as soon as we classify Detroit and cities like it as welfare states

Top Gun wrote:Can we reclassify the Deep South as a third-world territory? It'd fit really damn well.

That's racist.

snoopy wrote:(Foil, you might as well just preemptively lock this one down.)

I'm keeping an eye on it.

I have news for you, the whole world is a satanic plot.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:...the whole world is a satanic plot.

So pessimistic. The world is totally kick ass.

I'll leave the satanic plot business alone, and trust you all can sort the nation's problems out in the next week and a half.
I'm going fishing!

Party at Slick's place!

Top Gun wrote:Can we reclassify the Deep South as a third-world territory? It'd fit really damn well.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh.................nope, not gonna say it.

vision wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:...the whole world is a satanic plot.

So pessimistic. The world is totally kick ass.

That is not a pessimistic statement. It has more to do with an observation of the goals of "the world" in comparison with the goals of God. The Bible actually says that "the whole word lies under the sway of the wicked one" (satan). The world is not "totally kick ass" by any measure that I'm aware of. Probably you alter/narrow your perception in order to achieve this outlook.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:The world is not "totally kick ass" by any measure that I'm aware of.

It is kick ass because you are alive in the most amazing time in history. Did you know right now people live in space and there are two robots driving around on Mars doing science? Did you know you can access a body of knowledge in a scope greater than any library or university that has ever existed in history through an inexpensive device that fits in your pocket and can be used 24 hours a day? Did you know thanks to medical science some of the most common, horrible diseases no longer exist in a meaningful way or at all? Did you know that, contrary to what you might see on the television, violence is down, and mortality & literacy is up, globally, and has been following that trend for hundreds of years? Did you know that some people are capable of only seeing the bad side even when things are overwhelmingly good?

Narrow perception? Har, har. You should spend less time thumbing through gloomy religious texts and take a look at the beautiful world around you.

Thank you for illustrating my point about selective or narrow vision, vision.

vision wrote:Did you know right now people live in space and there are two robots driving around on Mars doing science?

Did you know there are more than two unmanned craft being used by various militaries in doing politically convenient murder?

vision wrote:Did you know you can access a body of knowledge in a scope greater than any library or university that has ever existed in history through an inexpensive device that fits in your pocket and can be used 24 hours a day?

Did you know this has given people an inflated opinion of what they "know", and has resulted in a dangerous type of ignorance when it comes to what really matters?

vision wrote:Did you know thanks to medical science some of the most common, horrible diseases no longer exist in a meaningful way or at all?

Did you know that health problems are not a thing of the past, and people's health in general is actually degrading and requiring more work to prop up because of ignorance of diet and the stupidity of medical science which cures the symptom rather than understanding and fixing the problem?

vision wrote:Did you know that, contrary to what you might see on the television, violence is down, and mortality & literacy is up, globally, and has been following that trend for hundreds of years?

Did you know that anyone who can even watch television and claim that morality is in anything but a decline is operating from a compromised view-point?

vision wrote:Did you know that some people are capable of only seeing the bad side even when things are overwhelmingly good?

Did you know the "overwhelmingly good" ought to mean that there is more good than there is bad?

vision wrote:blah blah gloomy religious texts blah blah beautiful world around you

I look around all of the time, and there are an awful lot of things that are not beautiful at all: our culture is borderline deranged when it comes to the concept of love, does not value things that are truly worthwhile, is not self-sufficient/strong, uses people, asks people to sell their soul or the souls of their family to make a living, markets things which are designed to fail over time or not designed with prolonged use in mind, makes merchandise of people with illnesses, makes merchandise of young women for the pleasure of men young and old, and purposefully cultivates a culture which allows this to happen (on an incredible scale, and across many accepted industries, not just in some corner), poisons the environment, poisons the people, ...

You have to ignore or warp your understanding of an awful lot in order to think this world is "kick ass". I know you will try to get me wrong, but for anyone else, don't get me wrong--I think there is a lot of nice things in life which I could enumerate, but the world is definitely not kick ass unless you train your perception to leave out all of the bad ★■◆●. Vision is not alone in this by any means, of course. There is an industry dedicated to altering your perception in order to be positive or happy, and this industry and its truisms do not exist because the world is kick ass...

Man, I miss the 70's. Back before all this wonderful technology, people used to go to their grandparents every weekend and have huge dinners with all your aunts, uncles and cousins. People would drink iced tea outside in chairs under nice big shade trees and tell clever and interesting stories to each other while breathing in clean air and swimming in crystal clear rivers and lakes. You actually had to have a good personality and learn social interaction back in those days.

In developed countries, the birth rate has been steadily declining because people are too smart and educated to understand how dangerous this world for their child. While, as uneducated people can boast of a high birth rate. In fact, developed countries and major cities live only by the influx of migrants from poor countries or provinces. Cities and developed economy on the one hand, provide a comfortable life, but on the other hand they devour the souls of men. By the way this is an interesting fact that the villagers hate life in the village, while urban residents are often abandoned to hell urban life and moved forever live in the village, just to enjoy nature and breathe fresh air and to be able to normal social mutual relations.

Negative Nancy wrote:Did you know that anyone who can even watch television and claim that morality is in anything but a decline is operating from a compromised view-point?

Did you know that these claims come from the WHO?

Hey Debbie Downer, here is a good article for you to read when you want to take a break from reading apocalyptic religious nonsense.

Insults and a linked argument. Somehow I can't be bothered... Unfortunately for you reality must have its say. The reality is that there is too much wrong with the way the world is for it to qualify as "kick ass" unless you're wiling to ignore a lot of it. It doesn't make me a pessimist or a downer to point this out. It does make you shallow and/or deluded to refuse to acknowledge these things. There are reasons that people do not or can not correctly perceive reality--things we each may have to deal with, depending on our history. The land of candy canes and lollipops does not wait for humanity at the end of your delusions. I'm actually a determined optimist when it comes to life, but I was raised a realist and I know what the world is like.

So basically you refused to look at the link which directly refutes the majority of your opinion?

Well, I looked at the link, and I wouldn’t say it refutes everything ST is saying, there is certainly is a lot of improvement is the world, but saying it’s “kick ass” is like cleaning some of the rust off an old Junker…then proclaiming it’s “kick ass”….no sorry, we have a long way to go until this world is “kick ass”.

Not saying we can’t get there, or won’t get there, just we aren’t there yet.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:The reality is that there is too much wrong with the way the world is for it to qualify as "kick ass" unless you're wiling to ignore a lot of it. ... It does make you shallow and/or deluded to refuse to acknowledge these things.

Give me a break. I absolutely acknowledge all the bad things in the world. We are on the verge of a global catastrophe due to pollution. It is very likely that billions of people will die because of it. That sucks. But humanity will not be wiped out and we will continue to do spectacular things when the world recovers. And, as I showed you proof above, this isn't about about ignoring the bad. The bad just doesn't hold up against the good. Pick a metric and let's take a look at the facts and figures: Global poverty? Down. Violence? Down. Discrimination? Down. Death from disease? Down. Life expectancy? Up. Literacy? Up. Food security? Up (for now, this might change along with rapid warming). Seriously, what metric are you using to have such a negative view of the world? Is it some nonsensical religious one?

You come from a culture that teaches "you are a sinner and the world is bad." I get it. I was taught that too when I was a kid. But it's never to late to free yourself from the shackles of a pessimistic worldview and be amazed and empowered by our ability to improve the lives of others and explore the universe.

Vision, I think you've been over before what you think my background is--you don't know what my background is. Your argument that the world is in fact kick ass because... it sucks less... according to your unreferenced metrics (are they in the link you threw out that I still haven't looked at just to give TG something to chew on?) does nothing to refute what I've said. Furthermore your weak attempts to marginalize my views because I'm a Christion still refuse to address my accusations.

Now... what was originally stated, that got you started on this, was that the world is a satanic plot. The primary thing that you seem to infer from that is that because the devil is involved I expect that we're ultimately going to descend into lighting everything on fire and sticking each other with pitch-forks in a state of utter chaos. That is not a biblical picture of the kingdom of Satan, just so you know. Here, this link proves it... That's my make-you-go-chase-the-argument-while-I-sit-back-and-relax link for the topic. Just start at Matthew 1, and read through to Revelations, taking notes whenever it talks about satan, darkness, the devil, etc, and conversely when it talks about the kingdom of God, the kingdom of His dear Son, etc. The truth is that the perfection of man is just fine with Satan, and he will steal, kill, and destroy along the way because that's what he does, but his ultimate goal is to take us with him in rebellion against our creator. There is a great deal of order to his kingdom, but it is a very different order than what God intended or created.

Let me know when you're done reading my link or I'll find someone to bring your character into question for not playing along.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Furthermore your weak attempts to marginalize my views because I'm a Christion still refuse to address my accusations.

You seem to forget as a deeply serious Christian I have already read the bible in it's entirety. And if all you can come up with to satisfy your argument about the world is a reference to a work of fiction, well, I guess all my assumptions about you are correct. Fantasy land.

Don't give me "deeply serious". I don't consider any Christian to be a Christian who isn't living their life patterned after the Bible and in obedience to the author. I have met precious few real Christians. To me the word doesn't even mean much unless I see it's backed by some real substance. Not many people take God seriously in our generation or those before it, and He knows exactly what's going on. The Bible says God is not mocked. You read the Bible through? So do a lot of Catholics, and Jehovas Witnesses, and Mormons, and many other people who still cannot see what it says and persist in damnable heresies contrary to scripture. Where was your heart at, and why did you eventually give it up? This is what matters, if you can even answer the question (only to yourself).

Furthermore I gave you a non-exhaustive list of some of the things wrong with the world, and got no answer, but you keep trying to say by argument is somehow vague. Did you miss that, or are you being dishonest?

I wrote:... our culture is borderline deranged when it comes to the concept of love, does not value things that are truly worthwhile, is not self-sufficient/strong, uses people, asks people to sell their soul or the souls of their family to make a living, markets things which are designed to fail over time or not designed with prolonged use in mind, makes merchandise of people with illnesses, makes merchandise of young women for the pleasure of men young and old, and purposefully cultivates a culture which allows this to happen (on an incredible scale, and across many accepted industries, not just in some corner), poisons the environment, poisons the people, ...

To make myself clear, by any non-shallow secular standards you are self-deluded--the world is not kick-ass. But by the Bible's standards it's having a other-than-God's plan contest, with children of the devil building their various kingdoms with allegiance to Satan whether they know it or not, pushing toward ultimate judgement like there's no time to look back. Calling right wrong, and wrong right. I have had a few brief glimpses in my understanding of the complexity and breadth of the world around us and specifically how it is designed to drag us down, keep us in bondage, and thwart the will of God for humanity, and there is absolutely no beating it apart from salvation in Christ Jesus. A person will always get a clue too late, or miss a move, be deceived, be trapped, be tricked, ... We are in a hopeless situation, God threw us a line, and people aren't honest enough to give a damn.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Don't give me "deeply serious". I don't consider any Christian to be a Christian who isn't living their life patterned after the Bible and in obedience to the author. I have met precious few real Christians. To me the word doesn't even mean much unless I see it's backed by some real substance.

So who died and left you the arbiter of who is or isn't "Christian"? Could you possibly get any more holier-than-thou?

I'm not the arbitar, the Bible is, and I've witnessed time and time again where people ultimately aren't interested in doing things God's way.

Top Gun, please address him as "Sergeant Thorne, sir." After all, he is a high ranking officer in God's army (which is weird that an all powerful being would need an army, but whatever). He will lead the precious few to the promised land, just like Fred Phelps and all the other Christians with the "correct" interpretation of a fictional work.

Hey Thornny, go flagellate yourself. Haha.


(btw you list is far from exhaustive, and it doesn't matter if I respond to it or not because you have already made you mind up about the world in advance, filtered through your favorite childhood reading material.)

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'm not the arbitar, the Bible is, and I've witnessed time and time again where people ultimately aren't interested in doing things God's way.

Have you put anyone to death for wearing a wool and linen sport coat? or have you stoned anyone's daughter for not being a virgin on their wedding night? How do you like it when you tell your wife that when she's on that time of the month, everything she touches is impure?


If this causes you to stop for even just a moment, don't come here and tell us you live by the bible or judge others by your wretched viewpoint.

Thanks for playing, Vision. A comprehensive understanding clearly did not follow your comprehensive reading of the Bible. I'll tell you a secret, though, it usually doesn't. Point of fact, there isn't a single work I'm aware of outside of the Bible where people seem to think it only takes one comprehensive reading to have it completely in-hand.

Good job, Ferno. If I had a nickle for every time some chump on the internet tried to hold me to the old covenant like I was a Hebrew/Jew and the "new covenant" in the New Testament never happened...

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'll tell you a secret, though, it usually doesn't.

That should be the first tip-off that your book is a pile of crap. What "divine" text makes is so unreadable to so many people, especially considering eternal damnation is on the line? Certainly this is not the sign of a loving creator.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Good job, Ferno. If I had a nickle for every time some chump on the internet tried to hold me to the old covenant like I was a Hebrew/Jew and the "new covenant" in the New Testament never happened...

You can't sit there and take only a little bit from the entire book and call yourself a true christian.

If anything, you're just a sliver away from being an atheist. So the next time you come here and try to judge others by the bible, I'm going to make a mockery of it.

Ferno wrote:...

You can't sit there and take only a little bit from the entire book and call yourself a true christian.

If anything, you're just a sliver away from being an atheist. So the next time you come here and try to judge others by the bible, I'm going to make a mockery of it.

As opposed to what you would do before...?!? lol

And to be the judge of 'what a true christian is' requires some qualifications I imagine...yours are ...? Most christians are fond of reminding each other that god reserves the right to judge.
I personally don't leave it all to him... but then I'm not a christian by most measuring sticks so I judge just fine

Will Robinson wrote:As opposed to what you would do before...?!? lol

No, it'd be the same. just more of it.

And to be the judge of 'what a true christian is' requires some qualifications I imagine...yours are ...?

Better than yours.

Most christians are fond of reminding each other that god reserves the right to judge.

And some (most likely in the same group you're thinking of) are fond of reminding others that they're going to hell for (insert sin/belief/disagreement here). You know.. the same place where we're all going. Satan himself will give me a fun new toy to torment you and thorne with.

I personally don't leave it all to him... but then I'm not a christian by most measuring sticks so I judge just fine

I know you too well. You're not qualified to judge anything.

Ferno wrote:You can't sit there and take only a little bit from the entire book and call yourself a true christian.

If anything, you're just a sliver away from being an atheist. So the next time you come here and try to judge others by the bible, I'm going to make a mockery of it.

I don't know how, Ferno, but you've got that backwards. Suffice to say that you're the one taking only a little bit from the entire book. Christianity 101. Most people don't know why Christians aren't required to follow the laws in the old testament, including people who call themselves Christians, but pretty much everyone I've ever met at least knows that they don't.

I'd be happy to show you why Christians don't have to observe Jewish law according to the Bible, but you would be required to refer to me as 'Thorne the Learned' or 'Mister Thorne' for the duration of the thread.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I'd be happy to show you why Christians don't have to observe Jewish law according to the Bible...

Do it tough guy! Let's see what you've got!

I don't want to waste my time on someone who doesn't care, and Ferno would never call me "Thorne the Learned", so I expect we'll have a few good yucks at the notion that I would like to be addressed in that manner and move on. I think the point is made.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I think the point is made.

Right, you are blessed to uncover the apparently secret knowledge of the Bible. Just like everyone else who thinks the same way. Good job guy!

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I don't know how, Ferno, but you've got that backwards. Suffice to say that you're the one taking only a little bit from the entire book. Christianity 101. Most people don't know why Christians aren't required to follow the laws in the old testament, including people who call themselves Christians, but pretty much everyone I've ever met at least knows that they don't.

No son, YOU have it backwards. If you don't follow the bible completely, you simply can't claim you do. It's just common sense.

But at least you're in good company. You're closer to an atheist than you think.

You're going back on ignore, Vision, for the same reason I ignored you the first time--you twist everything to suit your fancy with no regard for reality or the truth. I don't even care to read that crap.

I don't know where you're getting this Atheist nonsense, Ferno, but all you would have to do is read a bit of the Bible to know that what you're saying is not so. The real problem here, and the reason I'm not throwing quotes your way, is that your opinion on this matter has absolutely nothing to do with the content of the scripture. You insist I have to observe the whole Bible or I'm not faithful to its content, and yet the content instructs me that I am no longer to persue righteousness/holiness through keeping the law of Moses or its related ordinances, but through a new and better way obtained for us by the death of Jesus Christ. Common sense is to take into account what the Bible says.