DescentBB

Iraq's beleaguered Christians make final stand on the Mosul frontline
Some Christian families from Mosul have sought refuge in St Matthew’s Monastery, writes Richard Spencer. Others vow to take a stand against the Islamists - whatever the cost

Captain Firaz Jacob knows he may well be mounting a last stand at the frontiers of the Christian settlement of Bartella on the outskirts of Mosul.
Less than a mile down the road are the jihadists of Isis, the Islamic State of Iraq and al-Sham, and the portly, middle-aged Mr Jacob is aware that his home-grown militia are outnumbered.
“I stand here waiting for my destiny,” he said, as he stood this week by the last check-point on the road to Mosul and the black flags waiting in the desert.
Speaking of why he and his men were refusing to give up and go, Capt Jacob said was determined to resist the jihadists and their allies, who last week over-ran most of the rest of northern Iraq.
“We will stay here despite everything,” he announced. “All these armed groups we have seen, but nevertheless we will remain. We love our Christian way of life, we love our churches and we love our community...”

The middle east's Christians will soon be wiped from the region.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... tline.html

Don't worry, if they are true Christians, God will protect them.

vision wrote:Don't worry, if they are true Christians, God will protect them.

Rather callous d*ck aren't you?

ThunderBunny wrote:Rather callous d*ck aren't you?

What good is faith in God if you are afraid of stuff like this?

vision wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:Rather callous d*ck aren't you?

What good is faith in God if you are afraid of stuff like this?

well that would require that you first understand what faith in God means.
This is probably a topic you should steer away from. It will help save you a great deal of embarrassment.

vision wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:Rather callous d*ck aren't you?

What good is faith in God if you are afraid of stuff like this?

You know very well they're going to be slaughtered and hung from telephone posts by the muslim hordes.

ThunderBunny wrote:You know very well they're going to be slaughtered and hung from telephone posts by the muslim hordes.

But then they go the Heaven and become martyrs. Or God saves them. Either way it's a win, so I don't know why you are freaking out.

vision wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:You know very well they're going to be slaughtered and hung from telephone posts by the muslim hordes.

But then they go the Heaven and become martyrs. Or God saves them. Either way it's a win, so I don't know why you are freaking out.

Because I don't want to see people slaughtered by savages.

Besides, you're an atheist. You'd believe they're worm food. So yes- you're a d*ck.

ThunderBunny wrote:Because I don't want to see people slaughtered by savages.

I don't want to see anyone slaughtered by anyone. But if you won't sacrifice your religion to save your own life, well, you've made your choice so deal with it. No sympathy there.

vision wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:Because I don't want to see people slaughtered by savages.

I don't want to see anyone slaughtered by anyone. But if you won't sacrifice your religion to save your own life, well, you've made your choice so deal with it. No sympathy there.

Are you some kind of retard? The savages doing the slaughtering don't care what religion you have if it isn't their twisted ideology. They'd kill you or a Christian just the same unless you converted.

Are you saying you'd convert to islam if someone threatened you with death?

ThunderBunny wrote:Are you saying you'd convert to islam if someone threatened you with death?

★■◆● yeah I would, I'm not retarded. Living is much more important than temporarily faking a religion to stop someone from killing you. Of course, as soon as the coast was clear I would immediately relocate to a non-Islamic country.

If I held a gun to your head and demanded that you believe that the earth is flat, then you might pretend to believe the earth is flat and say that you believe the earth is flat, but there's nothing that you could do to actually believe that the earth is flat, even if you really wanted to. People think that we have control over what we believe, but we have surprisingly little. So in this sense, I don't think that vision could ever truly convert to Islam, but he could certainly try to fake it until the coast was clear.

Also, [mod hat]I know that this is an emotional topic, but any more personal insults will be dealt with harshly[/mod hat].

vision wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:Rather callous d*ck aren't you?

What good is faith in God if you are afraid of stuff like this?

bingo

FWIW, while the Christian population of the Middle East has plummetted steadily since the creation of the State of Israel, folks have cited the imminent removal of ALL Christians from the region more than once, and it hasn't happened yet.

callmeslick wrote:

vision wrote:

ThunderBunny wrote:Rather callous d*ck aren't you?

What good is faith in God if you are afraid of stuff like this?

bingo

I wonder if both of you would be making the same responses if it was Christians doing genocide to the Muslims

can't speak for Vision, but the point is equally valid for all whose religion promises them eternal life for 'faith'......if you truly have faith in that, then fear shouldn't cross your mind.

Slick that is really illogical. In order to support visions snarky comment you abandon logic.
One could have faith, believe in a wonderful afterlife and still want to protect his time on earth. It seems that is very common in fact.

So you dismiss the likely scenario, one that behavior of centuries of countless Christians seem to support, that they do value their time as mortal beings, and so, for the sake of helping vision troll the forum, you shamelessly adopt such a ridiculous position.

I know you are prone to such illogical arguments in the ideological arena but this one apparently is just for pure spitefulness.

You go boy! The content of your character on full display!

callmeslick wrote:can't speak for Vision, but the point is equally valid for all whose religion promises them eternal life for 'faith'......if you truly have faith in that, then fear shouldn't cross your mind.

LOL what a crock of ★■◆●.

Christ wrote:"Father, if you are willing, please take this cup of suffering away from me. Yet I want your will to be done, not mine.
An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him.
And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

Christ knew he was going to die, knew how he was going to die, and he knew he would be raised again. yet still he did not want to go through it.

It's so easy for an atheist to say "you lack Faith" especially when he has no Idea what "Faith" really is.

those that have faith know that ONCE dead they will have eternal life. that doesn't remove the fact of HOW you will die, or the fear of it. and NO ONE has perfect faith, we are human there is always doubt. any one that tells you otherwise is a Liar

CUDA wrote:those that have faith know that ONCE dead they will have eternal life. that doesn't remove the fact of HOW you will die, or the fear of it. and NO ONE has perfect faith, we are human there is always doubt. any one that tells you otherwise is a Liar

I'm gonna go ahead and say that suicide bombers are exempt from the ridiculous rule you just made up. They have perfect faith. You should envy them!

beat me to the example, Vision. There are others as well, among them Kamikaze pilots(Emperor was God personified), and countless Christian martyrs.

so you are saying that everyone of those examples you cited all of them had no fear. because that is what you claimed.

people overcome fear all the time. it's called courage.

CUDA has his dancing shoes on.

That makes me think of a Cheech and Chong line.

“Honorable general sir” “Are you out of your ★■◆●ing mind”

A very brave warrior once said…”only fools have no fear”

vision wrote:CUDA has his dancing shoes on.

Dance hell it wasn't my statement that said having faith was being without fear. Nice try though.

I kind of have to side with the Christians here. Muslims have been killing Christians all over the Middle East since the beginning of the Arab Spring revolutions. I haven't seen it happening in reverse either, unless you want to count old rivalries from way back in during the Crusades. Maybe Muslims have a long memory, but they did their share of killing during the Crusades too. I guess there's no room for infidels in a Muslim World, so maybe there should be no room for Muslims in a Christian world.

as I said, TC, and returning to a certain level of seriousness, the Christian populace was stable for about 6 centuries, and started to plummet within a couple years of the founding of Israel. Not BLAMING Israel for this, but the creation disrupted the status quo among religious and ethnic groups, and the Christians lost out, in a certain sense. Now, they really didn't lose out, in most cases, because the vast bulk of the population loss was due to emigration of Christians to the US. That emigration is a part of the money drain that has hit the Arab regions of the northern Middle East, as most of those who left were affluent. The result was a more isolated set of Christian communities in the region, which, coupled with increased militancy among the Muslim groups, proved dangerous. As one can see in Iraq, or other places, the sheer numbers would indicate far more killing and the like WITHIN the ranks of Muslims, but the few remaining Christians stand out.
It is quite sad, their plight, but it is FAR, FAR more complex than simply, "the evil Muslims just live to kill Christians".

I just wanted to chime in and point out that Vision is right that if these people believe in God they should not fear. If they claim to believe in the God of the Bible, and are afraid, then that says something about the substance of their faith. If Vision doesn't believe in God, and is willing to let an aggressor murder people that do, that says something about his character. Myself, I suspect they will die defending a way of life, and an attractive religion, having never known God, but there isn't much to go on here. It has happened before. If you die for something, the act alone does not justify what you are dying for...

In the Bible God says, "my people perish for lack of knowledge".

Sergeant Thorne wrote:If Vision doesn't believe in God, and is willing to let an aggressor murder people that do, that says something about his character.

Just to point out what I've said many times before, I'm against all forms of violence. Were I in a position to do something about it, I would. But at the same time, if people want to live and die for silly reasons, well, there is not much anyone can do about it.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I just wanted to chime in and point out that Vision is right that if these people believe in God they should not fear. If they claim to believe in the God of the Bible, and are afraid, then that says something about the substance of their faith. If Vision doesn't believe in God, and is willing to let an aggressor murder people that do, that says something about his character. Myself, I suspect they will die defending a way of life, and an attractive religion, having never known God, but there isn't much to go on here. It has happened before. If you die for something, the act alone does not justify what you are dying for...

In the Bible God says, "my people perish for lack of knowledge".

Don't get all high and mighty ST. Christians have killed or destroyed in the name of God in the past, and they're justifying killing people in some nations right now using the Bible as their rationalization, namely Uganda. Christians will kill for the same reasons Muslims kill, their religious principles and zeal. I'm with vision. ALL killing of other humans is sin, no matter who does it, but it's especially heinous when people do it then justify it with their religion.

callmeslick wrote:as I said, TC, and returning to a certain level of seriousness, the Christian populace was stable for about 6 centuries, and started to plummet within a couple years of the founding of Israel. Not BLAMING Israel for this, but the creation disrupted the status quo among religious and ethnic groups, and the Christians lost out, in a certain sense. Now, they really didn't lose out, in most cases, because the vast bulk of the population loss was due to emigration of Christians to the US. That emigration is a part of the money drain that has hit the Arab regions of the northern Middle East, as most of those who left were affluent. The result was a more isolated set of Christian communities in the region, which, coupled with increased militancy among the Muslim groups, proved dangerous. As one can see in Iraq, or other places, the sheer numbers would indicate far more killing and the like WITHIN the ranks of Muslims, but the few remaining Christians stand out.

Not just Israel, but the European created borders in Mesopotamia after WWII. Between our world wars and our craving for oil, Western meddling has created a mess out of that whole region. Don't forget Hitler, who either killed or forced the Jews to flee out of all his occupied territories. If I were a Jew, I'd want to have my own country in the birthplace of my people after that bastard's reign of terror. And I'd want a nation that could defend itself against despots like Hitler in the future. Genocide never again.

vision wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:If Vision doesn't believe in God, and is willing to let an aggressor murder people that do, that says something about his character.

Just to point out what I've said many times before, I'm against all forms of violence. Were I in a position to do something about it, I would. But at the same time, if people want to live and die for silly reasons, well, there is not much anyone can do about it.

What if people want to kill you for silly reasons?

Qur’an:9:88 “The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard and FIGHT with their wealth and lives in Allah’s Cause.”

Qur’an:9:5 “Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

Qur’an:9:29 “Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender, paying the protective tax in submission.”

Qur’an:8:5 “Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to FIGHT for the true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to fighting).”

ThunderBunny wrote:What if people want to kill you for silly reasons?

So what? Everyone has a personal responsibility for their own safety. This is exactly what the Christians need to evaluate. Is their practice more important than their life? If so, then go into oblivion without fear. If not, then do whatever it takes to stay alive and work toward a better, safer, happier future.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I just wanted to chime in and point out that Vision is right that if these people believe in God they should not fear. If they claim to believe in the God of the Bible, and are afraid, then that says something about the substance of their faith.

If someone was waving a gun in your face, you'd sure as ★■◆● be afraid too, no matter how strong your faith.

Top Gun wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I just wanted to chime in and point out that Vision is right that if these people believe in God they should not fear. If they claim to believe in the God of the Bible, and are afraid, then that says something about the substance of their faith.

If someone was waving a gun in your face, you'd sure as ★■◆● be afraid too, no matter how strong your faith.

If someone was waving a gun in your face, the amount of fear you would experience would probably depend not on how strong your faith is, but rather how strong your ninjutsu is.

Indeed. As Cuda noted, Christ himself was afraid of his impending death, even though he knew what it meant and what would result. It's a basic human emotional response.

You wouldn't know anything about it, TG, but you certainly don't have to be afraid if someone puts a gun in your face. If Christ was afraid, then he certainly didn't show it when it came down to doing the deed (and by "doing the deed" I mean everything from facing the guards and allowing them to take him, to quoting Isaiah before his death). Any one of us might be afraid at some time at the thought of personal injury or death, but at the crucial time if fear is what comes out then you have lost. You might as well argue that sky divers are always afraid because it's a natural human reaction to jumping out of a plane, but the fact is that after much experience they have such confidence in their abilities to control their movement, and the operation of their chute, that fear doesn't really enter into it, and if fear sits in the place where confidence should be then there is a problem. Faith involves confidence, fyi.

I'll take Aikido to ninjutsu, but either way if the gun is in your face they've already lost.

Vision wrote:But then they go the Heaven and become martyrs. Or God saves them. Either way it's a win, so I don't know why you are freaking out.

This is what I took issue with. It's all well and good, but you don't believe it, so it amounts to you treating the topic lightly, and then you crayfish like it's not what you were doing.

If people believe God will save them from aggressors, but you don't believe it and stand by mockingly saying God will save them, aren't you consenting to their death because of your scorn for their faith? If a person puts themselves in harms way, that's one thing--you don't owe anyone pulling them out from in front of a train they walked in front of because God will save them, but we're talking about an aggressive third-party here, and you really ought to give a damn.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:...but we're talking about an aggressive third-party here, and you really ought to give a damn.

So... your god isn't strong enough or caring enough to stop an aggressive 3rd party from killing his beloved? Good to know. Oh wait, "God's plan..."

No. I'm sorry to have overtaxed your mental facilities, but if you want to participate you're going to have to try a little harder. Read what I wrote.

Answer the goddamn question Thorne. Is your God capable of saving your Christian brothers or not?

Dumb question…of course he is…the question is….will he.

vision wrote:Answer the ******* question Thorne. Is your God capable of saving your Christian brothers or not?

We're not lowering this to your intellectual level. You answer mine--do you believe that God will save them?