DescentBB

May they finish Hamas as a fightting force for good.

Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu gave the IDF the green light for a ground
invasion of Gaza that already has begun late Thursday night as thousands of
more reservists , including those serving in tank battalions , reported for duty .
Soldiers already have taken control of relatively less - populated areas in
northern Gaza .
“ Following ten days of Hamas attacks by land, air and sea , and after repeated
rejections of offers to deescalate the situation , the Israel Defense Forces ( IDF)
has initiated a ground operation within the Gaza Strip , ” the IDF stated .

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breakin ... 014/07/17/

Not a chance. I'm not denying Israel's right to defend itself, but all this will do is just start the cycle all over again.

I don't think the cycle has ever really stopped. More like an ebb and flow. Right now things are flowing a little harder. I don't think the Israelis are trying to break them that would require killing too many human shields.

To end it look for Israel hitting Iran really hard. No one should want to see that but one day it may come to it.

Will Robinson wrote:To end it look for Israel hitting Iran really hard.

And that would do what exactly?

inb4 "wipe Israel off the map" trope used by uneducated dolts with no sense of Middle East political complexity.

Top Gun wrote:Not a chance. I'm not denying Israel's right to defend itself, but all this will do is just start the cycle all over again.

Hamas started the cycle again.

vision wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:To end it look for Israel hitting Iran really hard.

And that would do what exactly?

inb4 "wipe Israel off the map" trope used by uneducated dolts with no sense of Middle East political complexity.

Who do you think is supplying Hamas with all those nasty little rockets?

Truth is, Palestine would have already integrated nicely culturally and economically if not for constant agitation. Don't get me wrong. I am not one of those Christians who blindly support's Israel's right to do anything they want on religious grounds, but the Palestinians would have long ago benefitted under Israel's economic standing if not for being pitted against the other. Hamas is solely responsible for that. I don't like seeing innocent children killed in the conflict, but time after time Israel has attempted to live at peace with Palestine, and doing things for Palestine's benefit only to have an extremist hate group constantly provoke them.

On the other hands, Palestine was perfectly well 'assimilated' until the Western powers decided to create the nation of Israel. As were Christians.

Well, there is no going back on that one.

callmeslick wrote:On the other hands, Palestine was perfectly well 'assimilated' until the Western powers decided to create the nation of Israel. As were Christians.

Like Egypt, Syria, Libya and Lebanon?

My perspective:

I think Israel is playing into Hamas' hands, doing exactly what Hamas has been trying to get them to do. They're playing Hamas' game now.

Vision the Palestinians are a proxy for...who?

You can't question the indictment of Iran being the major root in the tree of terror that is planted in Israel and the surrounding countries and claim the indictment shows no understanding of the region.

Not without looking like a complete and total fool....

Spidey wrote:Well, there is no going back on that one.

quite true. The issue is now to sort out how to go forth on a different trajectory than we've seen for the past 40 or so years.

Foil wrote:My perspective:

I think Israel is playing into Hamas' hands, doing exactly what Hamas has been trying to get them to do. They're playing Hamas' game now.

bingo! A winner. All I can say, from an American perspective, is that I hope we continue to dis-engage from that reason to as great an extent as we can. It's long past time where the key players have to sort the whole mess out(from north Africa to Iran and everyplace in between) without us or some other external force messing with things. It isn't going to be pretty, especially for the residents, but it's overdue and unavoidable at some point.

woodchip wrote:

Top Gun wrote:Not a chance. I'm not denying Israel's right to defend itself, but all this will do is just start the cycle all over again.

Hamas started the cycle again.

Hamas needs to constantly portray Israel as an enemy in order to stay in power, and fortunately for them Israel themselves make it very easy to do so with actions like continued settlement construction. Neither side is blameless here.

woodchip wrote:Who do you think is supplying Hamas with all those nasty little rockets?

You mean the rockets that mostly fall into empty fields injuring few and killing almost no one with limited damage to property? Oh yeah, that's a force to be reckoned with. Israel should totally kill hundreds of civilians for that.

Will Robinson wrote:Vision the Palestinians are a proxy for...who?

Palestinians. An entire nation of people are not a proxy to anyone.

Will Robinson wrote:You can't question the indictment of Iran being the major root in the tree of terror that is planted in Israel and the surrounding countries and claim the indictment shows no understanding of the region.

Israel doesn't terrorize it's neighbors? You've been drinking the Jew kool-aid. And you still didn't answer the question. What will attacking Iran accomplish?

Either of you goofballs understand that Hamas are Sunni and the majority of rockets fired against Israel do not come from Hamas? Probably not. This would require independent research instead of just spitting out what the Jew media tell you.

Top Gun wrote:Hamas needs to constantly portray Israel as an enemy in order to stay in power, and fortunately for them Israel themselves make it very easy to do so with actions like continued settlement construction. Neither side is blameless here.

I've noticed that this continuing Jewish settlement construction "reason" for the constant Palestinian aggression is usually ignored by the media and our own government when fighting breaks out between these 2. Plus, we usually take up Israel's side when it happens. If my neighbor kept encroaching on my property with his constant house building, that would piss me off too. But I guess Israel really wants the whole area for itself, including Gaza and the West Bank, and it doesn't mind constantly going to war for it either.

Hezbollah, Hamas, PLO and Iran. One of them says jump and the others say how high...or get killed.
Cut the head off the snake...yadda yadda yadda....

notice that I suggested it wouldn't be a good thing for Israel to attack Iran though. Contrary to visions knee jerk reaction. I just think that eventually it may come to that as the only solution left to them, especially as the new forces surrounding them become better armed and less concerned with western might.

Will Robinson wrote:I just think that eventually it may come to that as the only solution left to them, especially as the new forces surrounding them become better armed and less concerned with western might.

You are still dodging the question. How will Israel attacking Iran "end it" as you say?

Will thinks more violence will end violence. I guess that only works if one side totally annihilates the other.

How many wars were ended by declaring 'peace' before one side declared surrender?
Slick, you talked about outside forces backing out. On its face it makes sense but only if you are willing to let Israel face the rest of them alone.
Iran won't quit meddling just because we did....look at how Russia fills voids we leave behind...
Are you willing to let Israel be pushed into a corner so hopeless that they unleash everything they have?

Will Robinson wrote:....look at how Russia fills voids we leave behind...

Cue Sigma in 3... 2... 1...

I'm pretty sure you have that backwards Slick. Palestine as we know it was created at the same time as Israel. Palestine is made up of group of people nobody wanted at the time and out of spite were sat right there.

EDIT: Which is exactly why I say they would have assimilated into Jewish culture, another group nobody wanted, if not for outside agitation.

Palestinians are the modern day equivalent of the Samaritan.

Top Gun wrote:

woodchip wrote:

Top Gun wrote:Not a chance. I'm not denying Israel's right to defend itself, but all this will do is just start the cycle all over again.

Hamas started the cycle again.

Hamas needs to constantly portray Israel as an enemy in order to stay in power, and fortunately for them Israel themselves make it very easy to do so with actions like continued settlement construction. Neither side is blameless here.

So hiding missiles in schools is better than building settlements?

“Yesterday, UNRWA admitted that it mysteriously found 20 missiles in one of its schools,”

woodchip wrote:

Top Gun wrote:

woodchip wrote:

Top Gun wrote:Not a chance. I'm not denying Israel's right to defend itself, but all this will do is just start the cycle all over again.

Hamas started the cycle again.

Hamas needs to constantly portray Israel as an enemy in order to stay in power, and fortunately for them Israel themselves make it very easy to do so with actions like continued settlement construction. Neither side is blameless here.

So hiding missiles in schools is better than building settlements?

“Yesterday, UNRWA admitted that it mysteriously found 20 missiles in one of its schools,”

Did I say it was better? Shockingly enough, "neither side is blameless" means exactly that. I certainly consider Hamas the guiltier party, but Israel has made it very easy to remain a target for hatred.

vision wrote:

woodchip wrote:Who do you think is supplying Hamas with all those nasty little rockets?

You mean the rockets that mostly fall into empty fields injuring few and killing almost no one with limited damage to property? Oh yeah, that's a force to be reckoned with. Israel should totally kill hundreds of civilians for that.

So if the Mexicans fired 20 missiles into the US and they landed in a field next to a city it would be no big deal?

vision wrote:Either of you goofballs understand that Hamas are Sunni and the majority of rockets fired against Israel do not come from Hamas? Probably not. This would require independent research instead of just spitting out what the Jew media tell you.

Perhaps vision you should post where you get your info from because:

Hamas, the ruling entity of the Gaza Strip, is responsible for most of the rocket fire on Israeli population centers. The organization – which is recognized by the US, UK, EU and Israel as a terrorist group – has been increasing the size and capabilities of its rocket arsenal.

"Since Israel withdrew from the Gaza Strip in 2005, terrorists have fired more than 11,000 rockets into Israel."
http://www.idfblog.com/facts-figures/ro ... rd-israel/

vision wrote:Palestinians Prepare For Massive Ground Invasion

I hope every single one of those is filled with Hamas militants.

A few of those are filled with the bodies of kids.

woodchip wrote:So if the Mexicans fired 20 missiles into the US and they landed in a field next to a city it would be no big deal?

Sure it would be a big deal. Would killing hundreds of innocent civilians be an appropriate response? Definitely not.

woodchip wrote:Perhaps vision you should post where you get your info from because...

Because what? Because you didn't link to anything that refutes my statement? Because you are using an IDF source to support your opinion of the IDF?

According to the most recent account provided by The Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center at the Israel Intelligence Heritage & Commemoration Center, 22% of rocket attacks are from Hamas.[1] Also, tacking on the buzzword "terrorist" doesn't make someone a terrorist. Hamas are the ruling party of a populace. You can just as easily call the Israeli government "terrorists," or any government for that matter. Heck, I can call you a terrorist too.

tunnelcat wrote:A few of those are filled with the bodies of kids.

-which would be the fondest hope of Hamas. Hamas WANTS dead palestinian children- almost as much as it wants dead Israelis and dead Israeli children.

people do bad things in war. good people do them. there are good people on both sides doing bad things right now.
In this case this war has been going on for numerous generations!
It is no longer possible to say who is right. It doesnt matter who is doing bad things.
It only matters if it can stop and how to stop it.

One way is to leave Israel alone and let them die or win. If they are faced with death I think they will lash out with all their might in an attempt to prevail or force the world to come to their aid. I wouldn't blame them one bit if they did.
It would be very bad if half of Israel died and the other half ran for the beaches while launching nukes into the targets they surely have loaded into their systems.

That is what some of you are proposing we let happen. just roll the dice like you think it will unfold like another Arab spring scuffle on CNN....There will be a huge surprise for you if you think thats how it will end. Your great great grandchildren will be learning about it in school. The Arab spring...not even a footnote.

The same people that talk about how horrible Bush was for breaking Iraq are the ones who claim we put Israel in the Palestinian's land (I think there is a whole lot of fail in that argument but lets accept it for the sake of discussing this from their perspective) so we should just butt out.
Well if Bush was bad for creating Iraq's mess and not fixing it and 'we' are responsible for creating the Israeli/Palestine mess, who is the bigger ★■◆● if we now say 'Hey! You guys take it from here! We're out...
I think if that is your position you have no credibility on the issue at all.

So, if you want to stop the fire from spreading, instead of debating who rubbed the twigs together with more zeal back when it started just stand back and notice the assholes on the outskirts throwing gasoline on the fire from a safe distance!
Stopping that activity seems to be a pretty good start toward a positive outcome. in fact it will have all sorts of beneficial results in the region.

Then see if the Palestinians, free to make a choice, and the Israeli's, don't reach some agreement. There are a lot of people in Israel who welcome peace. A lot of Palestinians as well. Probably a strong majority in both camps.

There have been times when PLO leaders have 'mysteriously' been murdered for coming too close to an agreement or became afraid when Israel seemed to give in to demands and suddenly walked away from a peace agreement.

Too many players that aren't being held responsible and the world just watches with feigned interest because a bunch of brown people far away are killing themselves.
Which is kind of sadly ironic because you guys seem to have no trouble making quite specious arguments that some people in america are responsible for other groups of people here killing themselves over turf and pride and you don't seem to want to walk away and let them self destruct.
Why don't you want to use some of that righteousness in this situation where correctly identifying the guilty instigators is much more certain?

Emperor Turhan: How will this end?

Ambassador Kosh: In fire

Took my daughter to her classmate's funeral yesterday, he was killed whilst uncovering the vast network of tunnels in the northern part of Gaza. I'll not try to make you see my point of view, because if i remember the DBB from years ago, most are pretty set in their ways. I'll just say, a terrorist organisation is firing thousands of rockets into my country, constantly, not just over the last two terrible weeks but since we pulled out in '05, and we are, at the moment, hell bent on stopping them...just like any other country would.

Flabby Chick wrote:Took my daughter to her classmate's funeral yesterday, he was killed whilst uncovering the vast network of tunnels in the northern part of Gaza. I'll not try to make you see my point of view, because if i remember the DBB from years ago, most are pretty set in their ways. I'll just say, a terrorist organisation is firing thousands of rockets into my country, constantly, not just over the last two terrible weeks but since we pulled out in '05, and we are, at the moment, hell bent on stopping them...just like any other country would.

God bless you all Flabby, stay safe as possible.
I hope Israel doesn't listen to the outsiders and just does what is needed to gain control and dictate the terms for the future. The only good cease fire is the one that comes after a surrender.

Flabby Chick wrote:Took my daughter to her classmate's funeral yesterday, he was killed whilst uncovering the vast network of tunnels in the northern part of Gaza. I'll not try to make you see my point of view, because if i remember the DBB from years ago, most are pretty set in their ways. I'll just say, a terrorist organisation is firing thousands of rockets into my country, constantly, not just over the last two terrible weeks but since we pulled out in '05, and we are, at the moment, hell bent on stopping them...just like any other country would.

GL Flabby, Israel in always in our Prayers, as you will be too.

Flabby Chick wrote:Took my daughter to her classmate's funeral yesterday, he was killed whilst uncovering the vast network of tunnels in the northern part of Gaza. I'll not try to make you see my point of view, because if i remember the DBB from years ago, most are pretty set in their ways. I'll just say, a terrorist organisation is firing thousands of rockets into my country, constantly, not just over the last two terrible weeks but since we pulled out in '05, and we are, at the moment, hell bent on stopping them...just like any other country would.

Sadly, there are some here who excuse terrorism only citing what the terrorists want them to see. Give your daughter my condolences for the loss of her classmate. Thanks for posting here as it brings home on a more personal level what is going on. Keep safe...if possible.

ITT: People who think a governing body are "terrorists."

vision wrote:ITT: People who think a governing body are "terrorists."

so are you saying a governing body CANNOT be terrorists?