DescentBB

So some moronic Obama official came out and said that the way to fight ISIS was to get their members jobs. Well jobs are not a issue as in Jihadi John's case:

"But his real name, according to friends and others familiar with his case, is Mohammed Emwazi, a Briton from a well-to-do family who grew up in West London and graduated from college with a degree in computer programming."

So in his case jobs wasn't a issue. I guess he just wanted to get ahead in life in a different manner.

Jobs aren't the whole issue, but there is a problem within the Western world, and even in the developed world around suitable employment, even for those with degrees. Was he employed in his field? Was he frustrated with economic barriers to hiring qualified Muslims in British society? These are questions that go unanswered. But, to dismiss that commentary by the under-secretary the other day is ludicrous. Just as the Marshall Plan averted the sort of societal chaos that came after WWI, so too would a greater focus on economic issues in the Muslim communities in the West, and economic development opportunities in the Muslim world help get some stability. Groups like ISIS grow from unstable governments and economies. Witness ISIS, which sprung up after we removed Saddam Hussein in Iraq, and grew further when Assad lost control of his northern and eastern provinces.

Poverty is no excuse for violence, and the last thing I pay the people in government to do is make excuses for terrorists.

Cant win the War on Terror? Cant quite get the credibility for your efforts there?
Morph it into the War on Poverty! Ahhh familiar territory there!
You won't win that either of course....been losing it for decades! But it dovetails nicely into the arena of funding pet policies in the name of helping people...
Now who dares to vote against that terrorist-killing-budget-for-shovel-ready-bridges-to-nowhere?

Spidey wrote:Poverty is no excuse for violence, and the last thing I pay the people in government to do is make excuses for terrorists.

True, a lot of those terrorists are looking for adventure, especially the well-to-do ones. But don't discount poverty and violence. When someone is poor, they pretty much have nothing to lose. When someone has nothing to lose, anything some terrorist recruiter says to that poor person sounds like a better alternative than the situation that person currently lives in.

Really….I grew up poor, nobody could have talked me into killing someone.

That's you. However, you can't speak for say, an immigrant, who lives in a country who's population distrusts and dislikes those very immigrants because they are foreign. Many of these immigrants can't find work or they work in dirty low-paying jobs and live in retched conditions. European countries have huge slums that are full of poor immigrants, people that don't fit into their host country's society and culture. That will always breed resentment and hate.

Spidey wrote:Poverty is no excuse for violence, and the last thing I pay the people in government to do is make excuses for terrorists.

would you be willing to pay them to actually figure out how to stop it?

callmeslick wrote:

Spidey wrote:Poverty is no excuse for violence, and the last thing I pay the people in government to do is make excuses for terrorists.

would you be willing to pay them to actually figure out how to stop it?

More money down the rabbit hole.

well, we pissed away a couple trillion on the 'kill them all' plan, which failed miserably. I'm all for not giving up and trying something new.

callmeslick wrote:

Spidey wrote:Poverty is no excuse for violence, and the last thing I pay the people in government to do is make excuses for terrorists.

would you be willing to pay them to actually figure out how to stop it?

Yes, that is what any sane person would want.

Solutions are a far cry from excuses.

If you think poverty is the root of terrorism…please explain the ones that plowed 2 planes into the Twin Towers…because they sure weren’t poor.

the issue being discussed by the 'moronic Obama official' was recruitment of large numbers of fighters. Those original smaller numbers were true zealots, and you aren't likely to stop seeing those crop up. Not enough to sustain what ISIS is trying to maintain.

tunnelcat wrote:That's you. However, you can't speak for say, an immigrant, who lives in a country who's population distrusts and dislikes those very immigrants because they are foreign. Many of these immigrants can't find work or they work in dirty low-paying jobs and live in retched conditions. European countries have huge slums that are full of poor immigrants, people that don't fit into their host country's society and culture. That will always breed resentment and hate.

Did you see what the Irish and the Chinese had to deal with in this country...didn't turn many of them into terrorists.

callmeslick wrote:the issue being discussed by the 'moronic Obama official' was recruitment of large numbers of fighters. Those original smaller numbers were true zealots, and you aren't likely to stop seeing those crop up. Not enough to sustain what ISIS is trying to maintain.

Well, you go right ahead and cure poverty...I won't hold my breath waiting tho...

Spidey wrote:

callmeslick wrote:the issue being discussed by the 'moronic Obama official' was recruitment of large numbers of fighters. Those original smaller numbers were true zealots, and you aren't likely to stop seeing those crop up. Not enough to sustain what ISIS is trying to maintain.

Well, you go right ahead and cure poverty...I won't hold my breath waiting tho...

no one is suggesting 'curing' poverty, simply ADDRESSING it, and helping the situation somewhat. Love the counter to the Obama admin:strawman after idiotic strawman. And, they're the morons? Not much in grey matter being used on the situation from the other side.

Not hard to find morons on both sides of this issue.

.........................

Unfortunately, there is probably no solution to terrorism, and as such is going to have to run its course.

Only thing we can really do is keep them from becoming too strong, keep them off balance, and do our best to keep them out of here.

Honestly, I wish there was a solution that didn’t involve killing…really.

Spidey wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:That's you. However, you can't speak for say, an immigrant, who lives in a country who's population distrusts and dislikes those very immigrants because they are foreign. Many of these immigrants can't find work or they work in dirty low-paying jobs and live in retched conditions. European countries have huge slums that are full of poor immigrants, people that don't fit into their host country's society and culture. That will always breed resentment and hate.

Did you see what the Irish and the Chinese had to deal with in this country...didn't turn many of them into terrorists.

Well, the Irish pretty much became terrorists in their own country with the IRA and all their sectarian violence. They also had violent gangs running around in their little slums when they came here. Same with the Chinese. But as for terrorists against our nation, heck our nation is made up of immigrants. We have to either get along or end up failing as a nation. It's in Europe, where old cultural nationalism runs high in each country, that the immigrant slums give birth to terrorists. The Europeans brought in guest workers from all over the Middle East and Africa, where they are treated as second class citizens with low paying jobs in their new country of residence. They're poor, they're stuck in some country that calls them second class citizens and they're resentful of the country that hosts them.

Irish terrorism had little to do with poverty, even though it would appear so to the untrained eye. No the terrorism in Ireland was a direct result of oppression and…are you ready for it…religion.

At least the Irish pretty much kept their guns trained on people who actually had something to do with the deplorable conditions, and didn’t take it out on the entire world. (killing innocent protestants, notwithstanding)

callmeslick wrote:the issue being discussed by the 'moronic Obama official' was recruitment of large numbers of fighters. Those original smaller numbers were true zealots, and you aren't likely to stop seeing those crop up. Not enough to sustain what ISIS is trying to maintain.

"Large number of fighters"? Being recruited by a 'B team' that was 'decimated and on the run'?

Damn! I hope they never get a chance to stop running and gain ground and build a force then with the ability to draw recruits like that! They might become a formidable A team in no time.

Ireland is a good example of where religion played a role in economic deprivation, so is a sort of poor test case. I agree with Spidey on this much.

But you've got to admit, all that Irish sectarian violence was based on religious differences, even though both sides were Christian. What's so different about today with tensions between Western Christians, Jews and Arab Muslims? More religious-based hatred for starting some new Holy Wars. But with modern terrorism, we now have tension between three very different religions and two very disparate large cultures. Western Civilization all through history has trampled on what it assumed was an inferior and backwards Arab Culture, especially between WWI and WWII and afterwards and I'm guessing they have very long memories. Add in the Jews returning to Jerusalem and creating the State of Israel on lands considered Holy by Muslims, well, there is a perfect storm of unrest and hatred ready to boil over. It didn't help that Europe imported poor Muslim immigrants from all over the Middle East and Africa as guest workers for low-paying jobs, workers who ended up living in squalor once many of them lost those jobs during the Big Recession, still have yet to get those jobs back and now feel trapped, poor and resentful of the alien country they now are stuck living in because they never assimilated like the immigrants did in the U.S. Now it's payback time, and violent payback is something totally foreign to most westerners and we're the ones in the cross hairs.

hell, the bulk of the Muslim immigrant community became unnecessary in Europe once the infrastructure was rebuilt. You're dealing with the second or third generation youth, mostly sequestered in ghettoes outside major cities.

tunnelcat wrote:It didn't help that Europe imported poor Muslim immigrants from all over the Middle East and Africa as guest workers for low-paying jobs, workers who ended up living in squalor once many of them lost those jobs during the Big Recession, still have yet to get those jobs back and now feel trapped, poor and resentful of the alien country they now are stuck living in because they never assimilated like the immigrants did in the U.S.

And not assimilating into a culture after 2 or more generations…whose fault is that, there has to be plenty of blame on both sides.

what you are seeing is not failing to assimilate....the prior generations did that. The younger people are rejecting the assimilation, as it hasn't worked out well for them.