DescentBB

For all the effort of the Libs saying we should go green, it appears people have them tuned out...at least when it comes to car. This morning I was hearing how the muscular camaro was selling 5k a month to the Volts 5k a year. Then I ran across this:

"Dodge is hitting the brakes on the “Hellcat” versions of the Challenger and Charger, suspending orders of the 707 hp muscle machines due to overwhelming demand."

So much for the Feds and the left trying to make wimps out of us

Challengers look great in green.

woodchip wrote:For all the effort of the Libs saying we should go green, it appears people have them tuned out...at least when it comes to car. This morning I was hearing how the muscular camaro was selling 5k a month to the Volts 5k a year. Then I ran across this:

"Dodge is hitting the brakes on the “Hellcat” versions of the Challenger and Charger, suspending orders of the 707 hp muscle machines due to overwhelming demand."

So much for the Feds and the left trying to make wimps out of us

happens every time gas gets cheap, doesn't it? You left out big-ass trucks. With that in mind, the gas taxes should be raised to reinforce the drop in demand that led to the price drop in the first place. Such taxes could easily fund the new gen solar technology, and other options. That would be farsighted, but lotsa luck waiting for a quorum in Congress to show any foresight.

I saw someone legit driving a Hummer the other day. An actual Hummer too, not the more compact H3. It's probably the first one I've seen in almost a decade; I can only assume they had it in storage for years because they couldn't afford to drive it.

callmeslick wrote:.... With that in mind, the gas taxes should be raised to reinforce the drop in demand that led to the price drop in the first place. Such taxes could easily fund the new gen solar technology, and other options. ....

What are those numbers you are using to support that statement?
What is the price of this 'new generation solar' as in, how much energy does it produce per dollar.
How many dollars will it cost?
How many dollars will be available if taxes were raised to keep gas prices the same?
What effect will a rise in oil price have on this new gen solar funding you are talking about?

Or do you not actually know the answers to any of that and instead you were just blowing smoke and any new tax would be gobbled up and consumed as pork by a body of self serving politicians who you would have helped pat themselves on the back for doing nothing more than posturing?

woodchip wrote:So much for the Feds and the left trying to make wimps out of us

Tesla's Model S has an "insane mode" that allow it to go from 0-60 in 3 seconds. The only thing wimpy about electric cars is the infrastructure we have to handle them. I only know of 3 charging stations in my area. One day there will be an electric version of the aptly named Charger and it will blow the original away because it will be lighter with more torque.

Mercedes has them beat.

http://www.topgear.com/uk/mercedes-benz ... ive-driven

callmeslick wrote:


happens every time gas gets cheap, doesn't it?

I suggest you rethink that statement

why, it's patently true? Ask anyone who sells motor vehicles for a living.

callmeslick wrote:why, it's patently true? Ask anyone who sells motor vehicles for a living.

\And you are patently nuts if you think that. Here's a link that will show sales figures for the Dodge challenger from 2008 onward:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Chal ... es_figures

And to make it easy for you here are the sales figures

Calendar Year Sales
2008 17,423
2009 25,852
2010 36,791
2011 39,534
2012 43,119
2013 51,462
2014 51,611

Now which of those years saw cheap gas like we have it today? Me waits for another opinion comment from slick

An electric Tesla can beat the crap out of any gas-powered supercar starting off the line. Even this guy's souped up electric Mazda Miata beat a Tesla. Eventually, electric or fuel cell cars will reign anyway because oil will eventually run out.

Owning a electric is not quite the same as saying you have a 700 horsepower beast parked in your garage.

woodchip wrote:Owning a electric is not quite the same as saying you have a 700 horsepower beast parked in your garage.

Why not? An electric motor can low end out-torque most gas engines off the starting line. So I guess what you crave is that throaty roar of power vibrating your nether regions? A big sub-woofer can fix that.

tunnelcat wrote:

woodchip wrote:Owning a electric is not quite the same as saying you have a 700 horsepower beast parked in your garage.

Why not? An electric motor can low end out-torque most gas engines off the starting line. So I guess what you crave is that throaty roar of power vibrating your nether regions? A big sub-woofer can fix that.

A sub woofer only goes so far

I don’t see the point of comparing electric cars to the Challenger anyway…electric cars are only earth friendly if the electricity used to power them is produced by renewable sources.

Any electric vehicle that gets powered from a coal plant or other carbon burner, is actually more unfriendly. (save maybe natural gas)

And, don’t even get me started about what producing the batteries cost the environment…

woodchip wrote:Owning a electric is not quite the same as saying you have a 700 horsepower beast parked in your garage.

For the record, the Tesla Model S P85D is all electric and has 691 horsepower... The motors are in fact so powerful they have to be limited or they would literally tear the side walls of the tires apart when accelerating. You talk about horsepower as if it is something exclusive to internal combustion engines, it isn't. Actually electric motors are considerably more powerful by weight than internal combustion engines, the only problem is the power supply (batteries, which are the subject of enormous amounts of research recently).

It won't be long before someone builds an all electric car that is more powerful than is practical to accomplish with an ICE.

Spidey wrote:And, don’t even get me started about what producing the batteries cost the environment…

This is a good point! And it's also an area that has the most potential for advancement. The hope is that batteries will become many times more efficient and eco-friendly over the next decade.

Krom wrote:

woodchip wrote:Owning a electric is not quite the same as saying you have a 700 horsepower beast parked in your garage.

For the record, the Tesla Model S P85D is all electric and has 691 horsepower... The motors are in fact so powerful they have to be limited or they would literally tear the side walls of the tires apart when accelerating. You talk about horsepower as if it is something exclusive to internal combustion engines, it isn't. Actually electric motors are considerably more powerful by weight than internal combustion engines, the only problem is the power supply (batteries, which are the subject of enormous amounts of research recently).

It won't be long before someone builds an all electric car that is more powerful than is practical to accomplish with an ICE.

Given the fact that it's already happened with smaller RC vehicles, both air and ground; It's almost guaranteed to happen in the next seven years.

You'll still need to convince the gear heads. So far I see no cars at the drag strip doing anything of note. Nor at the races like the Indy 500. And there is where you'll do the convincing.

woodchip wrote:You'll still need to convince the gear heads. So far I see no cars at the drag strip doing anything of note. Nor at the races like the Indy 500. And there is where you'll do the convincing.

As far as 1/4 mile drag race kind of stuff, the local tracks might start to see some people show up to surprise the combustion crowd pretty soon, the electrics are starting to infiltrate the enthusiast ranks but they are expensive so it will take time.

On a professional level they will probably be left to form their own class because they are very quick and it is a totally different set of circumstances they face (or don't have to face...) when getting the power to weight ratio needed to win. The rules that govern the combustion engine design aren't applicable in many ways.
Really an apples to oranges comparison if you are looking at it from an old motor head's perspective, in fact they will have to change that to 'engine head' since the electric guys are the ones with actual motors!

You haven't been keeping up on the racing world, have you woody?


Audi R18 e-tron, Overall & LMP1 class winner, 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans.

F1 2014 season ran hybrid cars.

White Zombie: fastest homebuilt electric drag car.

Don Garlits' 2000hp drag car, set the fastest quarter time ever. 7.258 seconds at 184.01 mph.

A123 systems' drag bike. 0-60 in 0.8 seconds.


Even ar our own local track (which serves double duty as an airport), we run RC cars during the intermission at the august drags. The last time we ran, we scared the pants off of the full size guys with the quickness and speed we could achieve. I personally beat out a few classes in the elapsed time.

There is also a new class called Formula E, they need to change cars during the race….snicker snicker.

Some of that list above is a little bit of a cheat, because they are hybrid.

It's not a cheat. It's an in-between, which still allows it to play with the ICE boys.

Just like a ICE has to be refueled, electrics will get a quick battery swap in the pit.

It would seem to me that any tire with a grip patch aggressive enough to hold while the sidewall tears is a poorly designed tire, and probably won’t give you many miles before giving out.

Most tires will just let go and spin, long before any damage to the sidewalls. (see fuel dragsters and funny cars and they use glue on the track)

So you need to design the proper tires with the correct ratio of grip to strength, so don’t get them made in China, because they can’t even get masking tape right.

Note that dragsters and funny cars actually have the tires bolted to the rim, because otherwise the rims would spin inside the tire and shred them, a feature you won't find on a highway car.

True that, but no street car can produce 10 thousand HP.

Spidey wrote:True that, but no street car can produce 10 thousand HP.

well, if it did, I don't see how basic physics keeps in or or in the 'street' for long, unless it weighed about 20,000 pounds.

Now we're getting into the JATO Impala territory. Just ask the Mythbusters how that one turned out.