DescentBB

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 8:02 am**

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/18/its_not ... ite_males/

we've talked about this subject, with some of you claiming such discrepancy in favor of white folks just doesn't exist anymore, but this recent shooting and a few others puts the lie to that. When someone of color kills a lot of people, they are a 'thug', 'gangbanger' or 'terrorist'. When a good old white boy does it, the first claim is that he is 'mentally ill'. Anyone see a problem with that breakdown?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:17 am**

Well, a terrorist or thug might have parents or society that pushes him into his violent way of life. Most of these insane shooters were kind of loners and developed this mentality on their own, which strikes me as metal illness. If I were brought up in a poor but religious part of Afghanistan, I know I'd be a different person than I am right now. But I grew up in gun-loving Texas and the thought of someone violent, let alone unsafe, with a gun sickens me. Those that want to hurt others without people making them do it must be insane.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:48 am**

I agree with much of the above, Isaac, but how does growing up in the gun-loving South, surrounded by adults who idolize the Confederacy, and whine about 'blacks taking over' really vary that much from the dynamic of bigotry, hate and all in Afghanistan? These people 'seem' to be loners, but they generally didn't grow up in a bubble, developing these hateful ideas in a vacuum. The kid in SC claims to have wished to start a race war, and have been quite specific about his feelings toward blacks in America. To my mind, he isn't the least insane, just a warped byproduct of a sick culture. We have a tendency to view other cultures as sick and ignore the very unhealthy aspects of our own.

Hey, there are open bunks at Guantanamo for him, right?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 11:07 am**

I totally agreed with slick. If we're going to call people out as representatives of their culture, this seems like an obvious case. He's a terrorist just like Timothy McVeigh -- not a "lone nut", but a representative of a culture of hatred. He may have acted alone, but he didn't learn to hate black people on his own, he learned it from others.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:08 pm**

Everyone here may not be a fan, but Jon Stewart's opening yesterday says more than I ever could:

"I have one job, and it's a pretty simple job. I come in in the morning and we look at the news and I write jokes about it, and then I make a couple faces and like a noise and then it's just cha-ching and I'm out the door. But I didn't do my job today, so I apologize. I've got nothing for you in terms of jokes and sounds because of what happened at South Carolina," the comedian confessed. "And maybe if I wasn't nearing the end of the run or this wasn't such a common occurrence, maybe I could have pulled out of the spiral, but I didn't. And so I honestly have nothing other than just sadness, once again, that we have to peer into the abyss of the depraved violence that we do to each other and the nexus of a just gaping, racial wound that will not heal, yet we pretend doesn't exist. I'm confident, though, that by acknowledging it, by staring into that and seeing it for what it is, we still won't do jack s--t. Yeah! That's us, and that's the part that blows my mind."

"I don't want to get into the political argument, the guns and things, but what blows my mind is the disparity of response between when we think people that are foreign are going to kill us and us killing ourselves. If this had been what we thought was Islamic terrorism, we would be...we invaded two countries and spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives and now fly unmanned death machines over like five or six different countries all to keep Americans safe. 'We gotta do whatever we can! We'll torture people! We gotta do whatever we can to keep Americans safe!' Nine people shot in a church. What about that? 'Hey, what are you gonna do? Crazy is as crazy is, right? That's the part that I cannot for the life of me wrap my head around, and you know it," he said. "You know that it's gonna go down the same path. 'This is a terrible tragedy.' They're already using the nuanced language of lack of effort for this. This is a terrorist attack. This is a violent attack on the Emanuel Church in South Carolina, which is a symbol for the black community. It has stood in that part of Charleston for a 100 and some years and has been attacked viscously many times, as many black churches have. To pretend that...I heard someone on the news say, 'Tragedy has visited this church.' This wasn't a tornado. This was racist. This was a guy with a Rhodesia badge on his sweater."

Stewart continued, "I hate to even use this pun, but this one is black and white. There's no nuance here. This is...and we're going to keep pretending like, 'I don't get it. What happened? This one guy lost his mind.' Because we are steeped in that culture in this country and we refuse to recognize it. And I cannot believe how hard people are working to discount it. In South Carolina, the roads that black people drive on are named for Confederate generals who fought to keep black people from being able to drive freely on that road. That's insanity. That's racial wallpaper. You can't allow that. Nine people were shot in a black church by a white guy who hated them who wanted to start some kind of civil war. The Confederate flag flies over South Carolina, and the roads are named for Confederate generals. And the white guy's the one who feel like his country's being taken away."

"We're bringing it on ourselves," Stewart told viewers. "And that's the thing: Al Qaeda, all those guys, Isis, they're not s--t compared to the damage that we can apparently do to ourselves on a regular basis."

The terrorism part is what hits home the most to me. We've spent God knows how many billions of dollars doing ★■◆● overseas to keep us "safe," when we're each a million times more likely to get killed by an American who never should have been allowed in the same room as a gun.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:27 pm**

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:04 pm**

callmeslick wrote:I agree with much of the above, Isaac, but how does growing up in the gun-loving South,

Like where I live?

callmeslick wrote: surrounded by adults who idolize the Confederacy,

Like where I live?

callmeslick wrote:and whine about 'blacks taking over'

Like where I live?

callmeslick wrote:really vary that much from the dynamic of bigotry, hate and all in Afghanistan?

I've had respect for you these few weeks I've been active on this board, despite our differences. However, comparing the south to a place that's far more violent is an ignorance I'd expect from high-school drop-outs around where I live. Not you. I want you to think about how many bombings and beheadings we do here compared to the place you're comparing us to.

callmeslick wrote: These people 'seem' to be loners, but they generally didn't grow up in a bubble, developing these hateful ideas in a vacuum.

They're loners that think the world owes them something. The Taliban thinks they're freedom fighters. U.S. gang members think they're a for-profit tribe.

callmeslick wrote:The kid in SC claims to have wished to start a race war, and have been quite specific about his feelings toward blacks in America.

I know people that feel hate against blacks. None of them would think of killing innocent people. Are you implying they have a hidden desire to kill and that this one guy simply acted on it?

callmeslick wrote: To my mind, he isn't the least insane, just a warped byproduct of a sick culture.

Hell no. The south doesn't teach us all to kill churches full of people. I'm disappointed in you right now. I thought you were someone with more sense than this. I guess I'm not a good judge in personality on a forum like this.

callmeslick wrote: We have a tendency to view other cultures as sick and ignore the very unhealthy aspects of our own.

Agreed.

callmeslick wrote:Hey, there are open bunks at Guantanamo for him, right?

funny

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:06 pm**

terrorist, racist, sadist.

the guy makes the KKK look like a bunch of saints.

Jon Stewart The Wise wrote:Nine people shot in a church

Exactly. Where was america when they needed protection?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:12 pm**

What's a shame is that the number of white supremacists groups has been on the rise ever since the election of Obama. They're coming out of the woodwork like rats now. White male are responsible for most of the mass murders in this country too, not blacks. WTF is their problem with people who are not of their race or creed, especially if those of differing races or creeds are in positions of power?

http://www.civilrights.org/publications ... acist.html

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:19 pm**

Isaac wrote: I know people that feel hate against blacks. None of them would think of killing innocent people. Are you implying they have a hidden desire to kill and that this one guy simply acted on it?

yes, that is PRECISELY what I am saying. I grew up in the South, too, bear in mind.

Hell no. The south doesn't teach us all to kill churches full of people. I'm disappointed in you right now. I thought you were someone with more sense than this. I guess I'm not a good judge in personality on a forum like this.

well, I'm a student of history and a child of the South. As such, I am quite aware that there is a considerable back-history of killing innocent black people and moreover, attacking churches, and it wasn't ALL that long ago, especially for those that still celebrate those as the good-old days.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:25 pm**

Slick, maybe what I said was too harsh. I didn't grow up early enough to know the kind of hate you've seen, assuming you much older than I.

So I'll concede and say, if he was brought up by his parrents and friends to do this sort of thing, then he's indeed not crazy and is on par with a terrorist.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 1:36 pm**

Isaac wrote:Slick, maybe what I said was too harsh. I didn't grow up early enough to know the kind of hate you've seen, assuming you much older than I.

So I'll concede and say, if he was brought up by his parrents and friends to do this sort of thing, then he's indeed not crazy and is on par with a terrorist.

I was born in 1955, the town I spent a lot of my youth in still has statues to Confederate Soldiers on the town square. They fly a Confederate flag up the road at the border with Maryland. I am quite certain you weren't raised that way, but in the more rural areas from Virginia to Texas kids are brought up both to hate anyone not like themselves(white southern protestants), and to revere the days of slavery as the Golden Age of the South. When I was young, the history books in VA still referred to the Civil War as the War of Northern Aggression. I was raised by people with a sense of both civility and compassion, but even they regarded(subtly) black people as somehow inferior beings. It's a sad and sorry reality, but it IS reality.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 2:36 pm**

To the OP…

Apples & Oranges

First off, mass shooters of color are almost non existent.

Second, last time I checked gang members were all considered “thugs” regardless of race, and gang violence makes up the overwhelming majority of multiple deaths perpetrated by “people of color”.

So no…sorry…false premise.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:15 pm**

Spidey wrote:To the OP…

Apples & Oranges

First off, mass shooters of color are almost non existent.

Second, last time I checked gang members were all considered “thugs” regardless of race, and gang violence makes up the overwhelming majority of multiple deaths perpetrated by “people of color”.

So no…sorry…false premise.

so, when a dark skinned guy shoots up an Army base, that doesn't count? Likewise, when a white boy, steeped in old-school southern racism targets a bunch of black people, that is what, exactly?

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:22 pm**

[mod] Cleaned up a couple personal-shot posts. Keep it professional here, folks. [/mod]

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:28 pm**

Of course it counts. And I heard plenty of discussion about his mental capacity. (maybe you need to change your news sources)

And why does homicidal racial bigotry have to be mutually exclusive to mental illness.

If you ask me all of these people are nuts.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:33 pm**

to Foil:thus far, I don't see terribly much going off the rails(fingers crossed).

Now, to Isaac, let me amplify a wee bit more about the South and the Celebration of the Confederacy. Even though, as I said, my family was big on treating all humans with respect, even in that context there was a celebration of the old days. I am the first generation to only have 3 names, but the first two are the name of a Confederate general. Prior to that, all males had 4 names: Given name,(full name of Confederate hero), surname. The wall of my childhood bedroom at the home in VA(still intact) bears a large framed portrait of my namesake, Stonewall Jackson. Now, mind you, in most cases this is more or less romanticized history, but the truth behind the Civil War, and what it was fought over is very real, and has to be insulting to most black Americans. Now, my family was well-off, and always had been, both before and after the Civil War. For many Southern whites, however, especially in the rural parts of the south, modern economics and a longstanding avoidance of higher education have hurt them badly. Thus, what I see, and see far too often in person, is resentful white people blaming blacks, 'yankee liberals', etc, etc for their current plight. Couple anger bordering on desperation in the younger people with a 'gun-happy' culture, and you have the seeds for incidents like this one. You also have fertile ground, looking at it in a more general perspective, for demogogues to manipulate those people into supporting a destructive sort of politics and social actions.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:35 pm**

Spidey wrote:Of course it counts. And I heard plenty of discussion about his mental capacity. (maybe you need to change your news sources)

And why does homicidal racial bigotry have to be mutually exclusive to mental illness.

If you ask me all of these people are nuts.

or, in the words of the Firesign Theater: We're All Bozos on this Bus.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:33 pm**

Also keep in mind that South Carolina is the state which continues to fly the Confederate Flag above the state capitol building...and it has still done so in the days following this incident. Really says a lot about where their intentions lie.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:07 pm**

Ferno wrote:
Exactly. Where was america when they needed protection?

where is anybody when they need protection. Name me a time when a cop was on scene when a crime was being commited.

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:14 pm**

woodchip wrote:
Ferno wrote:
Exactly. Where was america when they needed protection?
where is anybody when they need protection. Name me a time when a cop was on scene when a crime was being commited.

http://www.americasdumbestcriminals.com ... store.html

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:38 pm**

woodchip wrote:Name me a time when a cop was on scene when a crime was being commited.

Ok, here. (2013)
Oh, and this one too. (2012)

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:43 pm**

woodchip wrote:where is anybody when they need protection. Name me a time when a cop was on scene when a crime was being commited.

How about THIS ONE. http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/shootin ... -1.2818392

Posted: **Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:28 pm**

Or the off-duty Philly officer who was tragically killed earlier this year in a GameStop during an attempted robbery. Really, woody, these sorts of stories hit the national news like every week.

DescentBB

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