DescentBB

....I knew that eventually someone would be stupid enough to suggest that gun control made the ISIS attacks in Paris so horrible.
And, Donald Trump is that person. More confirmation as to why the bulk of the nation views him as a joke and why he trails the 3 adults on TV last night by 10 or more points(even O Malley)

Where's the dead horse gif?

You do understand woody, that most people, even in the U.S., don't carry their guns into a theater or a concert, or are even allowed to carry their guns into most concerts?

TC, it all depends on seating capacity...at least here in MI. And not all the French attacks were at large venues.

woodchip wrote:TC, it all depends on seating capacity...at least here in MI. And not all the French attacks were at large venues.

true, many victims were killed in walk-by shootings from the sidewalk into restaurants. Now, I may be an outlier here, but when the wife and I are at a fine dining establishment, I don't plan on sitting lookout, weapon at the ready. Moreover, I have never seen anyone else dine like that, although I'm certain that somewhere in Texas or Michigan they do. Thus, arming diners serves no purpose, when the shooters open up outside.

Speaking of stupid, one of the news anchors suggested a causal link between refugees and the incident in Paris by mentioning that one of the attackers had a syrian passport.

I just thought: if they had a passport, how are they a refugee? because last I checked, refugees don't usually carry passports.

sometimes refugees carry passports. If it happens to be one of the things you stuffed in the one suitcase you fled with...

That still takes planning.

That's also assuming that these people ever had/needed a passport in the first place. Hell, I've managed to go a solid 30 years of my life without ever getting one.

callmeslick wrote: Moreover, I have never seen anyone else dine like that, although I'm certain that somewhere in Texas or Michigan they do. Thus, arming diners serves no purpose, when the shooters open up outside.

If the other diners were carrying concealed you would never know they were. So your statement of never seen anyone dine like that is another ignorant statement on your part.

Ferno wrote:That still takes planning.

You act like the migrants just up and fled on a moments notice. If they were part of ISIS they would of planned such things.

Top Gun wrote:That's also assuming that these people ever had/needed a passport in the first place. Hell, I've managed to go a solid 30 years of my life without ever getting one.

And there are only two ways of getting a passport. Either through the consulate/immigration office in the country where they're from, or from a counterfeiter. Both ways of which would require aforethought and would happen weeks, if not months ahead of time.

but there's no possible way any ordinary people might have already had a passport, and decided to stuff it into the one bag they had time to pack, right? Refugees would never want to have a document proving where they had fled from, right?

No Syrian refugees get to Europe without a lot of planning, hell it probably takes the typical family years just to get up the extortion fee to cross the Mediterranean Sea.

Lothar wrote:but there's no possible way any ordinary people might have already had a passport, and decided to stuff it into the one bag they had time to pack, right? Refugees would never want to have a document proving where they had fled from, right?

That's the thing about being a refugee -- you don't have time to pack. you have to grab what you can carry and get out. Some refugees come over with a backpack, some with grocery bags. Sometimes with just the clothes they're wearing. Items that you can get to in a matter of seconds because that's about as much time as you have before the fighting hits. If you can pack a suitcase with three changes of clothes, a passport and other miscellaneous items in under thirty seconds, you're either the Gordon Ramsay of speed packing, or you had a bag already made up.

In one moment you're carrying on with your life, doing what you do. The next, you're told that in any second, the army's about to hit your town, or there's going to be bombs falling all around you and then you RUN.

I went through a similar exercise when I was in sea cadets -- we were told that there would be a refugee rescue exercise, but we weren't told who the volunteers were until the next morning. So 5 am rolls around and I was 'volunteered' to be a refugee. Lights come on, squad leader comes in screaming: "UP UP UP! THE ENEMY IS INVADING!". Half-asleep, and gathering what I can so I can get on 'the bus', which actually was us walking to the other side of the camp. I think I was able to get a bag, and stuff it with a pair of shorts, my shoes, two pairs of pants and a t-shirt. All my other stuff was in the room. No time to get it. After we got to the meeting point, we were told that we just experienced what refugees go through when their life suddenly goes sideways.

No one gets a twenty four hour advanced notice if they have to flee.

I don't see what having or not having an ID has to do with being a refugee. If I were forced to leave my home with only what I could carry, a passport seems like a pretty logical thing to include. That is why I keep mine in my emergency bag.

Vander wrote:I don't see what having or not having an ID has to do with being a refugee. If I were forced to leave my home with only what I could carry, a passport seems like a pretty logical thing to include. That is why I keep mine in my emergency bag.

I don't even have a valid passport at present(haven't been abroad since the 1980s), and the vast majority of folks are like me, I would imagine also in the affected regions. So, grabbing ones passport wouldn't be an option in the first place. When I did have a passport, it was kept in my lockbox at the bank, so again, nothing I would be able to grab if I had 24 hours to flee my home for a place far away, were my home turf a militant hellhole.

Sorry, maybe I don't know, Obama is still a President?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 36511.html

callmeslick wrote:I don't even have a valid passport at present(haven't been abroad since the 1980s), and the vast majority of folks are like me, I would imagine also in the affected regions. So, grabbing ones passport wouldn't be an option in the first place. When I did have a passport, it was kept in my lockbox at the bank, so again, nothing I would be able to grab if I had 24 hours to flee my home for a place far away, were my home turf a militant hellhole.

If your home turf was a militant hellhole and you had a passport, you wouldn't keep it close? I have a passport because I got to Mexico ever year or two. Rather than keeping it in my desk drawer, I just keep it in my go bag in the closet near my front door. (earthquake country)

I just think having a passport or not has little bearing on whether or not someone is a refugee. It just sounds like absurd speculation one often hears when listening to talking heads during breaking news events.

Vander wrote:I don't see what having or not having an ID has to do with being a refugee. If I were forced to leave my home with only what I could carry, a passport seems like a pretty logical thing to include. That is why I keep mine in my emergency bag.

I'd like to ask that very same question to the news anchor, and this reinforces my point.

Ferno wrote:

Lothar wrote:but there's no possible way any ordinary people might have already had a passport, and decided to stuff it into the one bag they had time to pack, right? Refugees would never want to have a document proving where they had fled from, right?

That's the thing about being a refugee -- you don't have time to pack. you have to grab what you can carry and get out. Some refugees come over with a backpack, some with grocery bags. Sometimes with just the clothes they're wearing. Items that you can get to in a matter of seconds because that's about as much time as you have before the fighting hits. If you can pack a suitcase with three changes of clothes, a passport and other miscellaneous items in under thirty seconds, you're either the Gordon Ramsay of speed packing, or you had a bag already made up.

In one moment you're carrying on with your life, doing what you do. The next, you're told that in any second, the army's about to hit your town, or there's going to be bombs falling all around you and then you RUN.

I went through a similar exercise when I was in sea cadets -- we were told that there would be a refugee rescue exercise, but we weren't told who the volunteers were until the next morning. So 5 am rolls around and I was 'volunteered' to be a refugee. Lights come on, squad leader comes in screaming: "UP UP UP! THE ENEMY IS INVADING!". Half-asleep, and gathering what I can so I can get on 'the bus', which actually was us walking to the other side of the camp. I think I was able to get a bag, and stuff it with a pair of shorts, my shoes, two pairs of pants and a t-shirt. All my other stuff was in the room. No time to get it. After we got to the meeting point, we were told that we just experienced what refugees go through when their life suddenly goes sideways.

No one gets a twenty four hour advanced notice if they have to flee.

My passport is on the shelf that makes up the head of my bed not too far away from my glasses, if I lived in a place where I might have to grab whatever I could on the way to the door and the border, I would not fail to include the passport in what I got out with me. Or what, do you keep your passport locked in some safe in the dungeon?

Krom wrote:My passport is on the shelf that makes up the head of my bed not too far away from my glasses, if I lived in a place where I might have to grab whatever I could on the way to the door and the border, I would not fail to include the passport in what I got out with me. Or what, do you keep your passport locked in some safe in the dungeon?

Do a lot of travelling, huh? My passport is stored in the same place as the rest of my paperwork.

Anyways, the point is - trying to equate a syrian passport with a refugee as a link to DAESH is insulting at best, and prejudiced at worst; and has no basis in reality.

I'm going out on a limb here and say that the prevalence of passports is higher where countries are smaller and share many borders. Sound reasonable?

Also, I think the latest speculation on the Syrian passport in the Paris bombing is a fake from Turkey, though I'm not sure how that ties together.

Reports are suggesting the person with the passport passed through greece in early october, according to the matching fingerprints on record. That's about a month prior to what happened in Paris. So there's no possible way he was a refugee.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... -refugees/