DescentBB

this is a sinking ship, and continues to show how closely Sanders 2016 is tracking Obama 2008.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/ ... li=BBnb7Kz

At least Bernie stood his ground and explained his gun control vote and that he would only want to revise part of it. Hillary tends to flip flop on a whim if it'll get her a few more votes.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/10/politics/ ... index.html

Man I hate reading stuff like this because it gets my hopes up that I can vote for someone besides Mrs. Clinton in the national election.

vision wrote:Man I hate reading stuff like this because it gets my hopes up that I can vote for someone besides Mrs. Clinton in the national election.

You could always vote for Jim Webb.

Evidently Hillary Clinton has now got her puffy faced daughter in on the act to attack Sanders. People on both sides are saying how using Chelsea is a giant act of desperation. Evidently Hillary is not wearing her industrial strength pantsuits as she cannot stand up in the campaign on her own.

woodchip wrote:Evidently Hillary Clinton has now got her puffy faced daughter in on the act to attack Sanders. People on both sides are saying how using Chelsea is a giant act of desperation. Evidently Hillary is not wearing her industrial strength pantsuits as she cannot stand up in the campaign on her own.

Chelsea was a disaster, from what I saw. She was clearly intending to scare people about 'Bernie is going to take apart the ACA and Medicaid and CHIP....", which, of course everyone with a brain knows he hopes to do.....BECAUSE YOU WON'T NEED THEM. Should he get the nation to adopt universal health coverage, you don't need separate programs for the poor, for kids, etc, because everyone will be covered cradle to grave. Her presentation was wooden, showing more inherited skills from Mom than from Dad.

I would like to hear uncle Bernie talk about the other critical reforms needed to prevent an American single payer system from becoming the most expensive single payer system on the planet.

I would like to hear uncle Bernie talk about the other critical reforms needed to prevent an American single payer system from becoming the most expensive single payer system on the planet.

Our system is already the most expensive per capita.

No kidding.

Spidey wrote:I would like to hear uncle Bernie talk about the other critical reforms needed to prevent an American single payer system from becoming the most expensive single payer system on the planet.

I'd have to dig for the analysis, but a very recent study by competent analysts came up with an overall savings(tax increase, minus current rates of insurance costs for employees and employers) of $1500 per family.

Medicare for all. The system is already in place, more young people enrolled would help support the system and we'd get rid of the expensive private health insurance system that's sucking the life out of the current mostly private health care system that's called Obamacare. Plus, we'd make it a requirement that the drug companies have to negotiate prices instead of setting them up to what the market will bear.

sort of correct. We'd be able to negotiate group rates for pharmas with the clout of having the entire system behind the negotiation. Plus, there would be some market for private insurance, as there will be tons of supplemental options available to any who wish to pay for them.

tunnelcat wrote:Medicare for all. The system is already in place, more young people enrolled would help support the system and we'd get rid of the expensive private health insurance system that's sucking the life out of the current mostly private health care system that's called Obamacare. Plus, we'd make it a requirement that the drug companies have to negotiate prices instead of setting them up to what the market will bear.

Thing is tc, it’s not actually the insurance industry that is sucking us dry, it’s the insurance industry that allows the medical industry to suck us dry. (most profit is in the actual care, not the insurance markup)

And getting rid of insurance profits and some admin costs are not going to cut the muster to bring down costs.

Spidey is correct in his analysis of the cost drivers, and the viscious cycle that drives costs up. As Sanders said, last night in response to the silly Clinton claims, this is going to have to be a national project to get as perfect as possible. We don't, at present, have things like free education for medical professionals and other programs to push medical costs lower.
As a related aside, I've always maintained that very few issues are so overall important as to make me a single-issue voter. In fact, the only exception I can think of would be if a candidate were willing to aggressively sell the benefits of single payer to the working people of the US. I'm now gauging whether Bernie Sanders is capable of doing so, and staying in laser focus without side issue distractions watering the message down.

Spidey wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:Medicare for all. The system is already in place, more young people enrolled would help support the system and we'd get rid of the expensive private health insurance system that's sucking the life out of the current mostly private health care system that's called Obamacare. Plus, we'd make it a requirement that the drug companies have to negotiate prices instead of setting them up to what the market will bear.

Thing is tc, it’s not actually the insurance industry that is sucking us dry, it’s the insurance industry that allows the medical industry to suck us dry. (most profit is in the actual care, not the insurance markup)

And getting rid of insurance profits and some admin costs are not going to cut the muster to bring down costs.

How do you propose we fix that then? I don't see anyone cutting health care costs as long a the inelastic demand of the Baby Boomers is the tempting well of profits to easily dip into. Medicare itself does a pretty good job of reigning in actual health care costs, although I know that most doctors and hospitals don't like the amounts Medicare reimburses them for services, so it's a losing situation anyway. But since it looks like Obamacare is on it way to the grave, and will be for sure if we get a Republican president, what we'll be left with is a pure for-profit system where only the super rich can afford health care. People aren't going to sit still for that one iota. Hillary's ideas are nuts as well, so she's got no solution either.

http://nypost.com/2016/01/14/hillary-cl ... laughable/

Somehow I bet even if the insurance companies themselves are in the red, their board of directors and CEOs are very much remaining in the black, although the more common shareholders are probably going to get shafted.

Also saying that young profitable people aren't signing up for insurance and the program isn't collecting enough in penalties to cover the cost is actually related if you think about it. The penalty is either some specific dollar amount, or some percentage of the persons income, but it is waved if the person is insured through something like my states free insurance program available to people near or below the poverty line. How many of these young people actually earn enough that they wouldn't qualify to be on their states free insurance program and would have to pay in to the system instead?

Does a young healthy person who should be earning enough that they would be required to sign up for insurance instead qualify for an exemption because they are buried under enough college tuition debt that it will take the majority of their career to pay it off?

Krom wrote:....Does a young healthy person who should be earning enough that they would be required to sign up for insurance instead qualify for an exemption because they are buried under enough college tuition debt that it will take the majority of their career to pay it off?

No, you're right, many of these kids don't have the money for health insurance. Most don't have the money to even rent a place to live in and won't for a long time because they have that mountain of college debt they'll have to pay off for years to come. So a lot of them are still living at their parent's house. I don't know if many of them can get exemptions either if their incomes are above the threshold. I wonder what's going to happen this year with taxes? Those nice fines are going to be kicking in this year, and people now have to receive Form 1095-A to prove they have health insurance. Will people opt to get fined for not having insurance, lie that they have it and check the box on their 1040 form, dare the IRS to stick them in jail or what? A lot of people don't know about this 1095-A form if they don't have insurance. My sister doesn't even have insurance and she still doesn't know what she's going to do around tax time.

Krom wrote:Also saying that young profitable people aren't signing up for insurance and the program isn't collecting enough in penalties to cover the cost is actually related if you think about it.

plus, the numbers for sub-35 year olds went way up in 2016. Penalties may have driven that.

video during last night's debate. Todd is stunned that Bernie absolutely owned the Google Search traffic in EVERY state.

https://www.facebook.com/jrgates54/vide ... 4/?fref=nf

Hillary's nightmare, and a good example of why her girl Debbie put the debates on weekends in football season. Can't have too many folks watching.....and, Googling.

Obviously, people were Googling the definition of a Democratic Socialist, which came up in the debate, and whether he'd make a good president in a country that's so afraid of anything to do with socialism that it's a dirty word never to be spoken, let alone actually put into some sort of practice.

tunnelcat wrote:Obviously, people were Googling the definition of a Democratic Socialist, which came up in the debate, and whether he'd make a good president in a country that's so afraid of anything to do with socialism that it's a dirty word never to be spoken, let alone actually put into some sort of practice.

I do admire Bernie for this:

[youtube]MTHpdjvTJcs[/youtube]

Even though the socialist dream can never be- because it isn't based in reality. Free stuff for everyone would be great- but someone has to pay for it.

works quite well in some nations. You just have to get your head around the fact that most ALL of the Western world has been somewhat socialist to some extent since 1920 or so.Then, look at how the ones that get it right, make it work. This isn't rocket science, but it isn't possible with a mind closed to the word 'socialism' before you study the matter.

Nightshade wrote:Even though the socialist dream can never be- because it isn't based in reality. Free stuff for everyone would be great- but someone has to pay for it.

He's not saying anything socialist in that video. It's the government's job to work for the people, not just "some" people with a lot of money. What he is describing isn't a socialist government, it's a government the way it is intended for We The People.