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It just needs a name
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:07 pm
by scottris
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:24 pm
by Lothar
The Pit
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 6:55 pm
by Skyalmian
That name is already taken.
Hm... I don't know. Precipice?
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 9:43 pm
by DarkFlameWolf
for some reason, I expected more out of your works scottris. This looks somewhat......bare and empty. As for the name, however about 'The Deep?'
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:11 pm
by Sapphire Wolf
Or "Neva Die"!
Uh-oh!
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:06 pm
by Top Gun
How about something like "Vulcan's Forge"?
Posted: Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:56 pm
by scottris
Well Wolf, the truth is I sold out.
err.. I mean my priorities have changed. Yeah. That sounds better.
Previously, things such as realism, originality, detail, and creativity were important to me. I considered Biohazard to be a work of art. Players complained about getting hung up on the cables and handrails. I wanted the level to be about precision flying and careful use of weapons. Players want to zip through the level in their skippy Phoenii chucking missiles left and right. I put a great deal of time and effort into the design and construction of my levels. People played Stadium and Abend. So this time, I'll give the players what they want: less polygons, more weapons!
...
Ok that's somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but really not far from the truth.
This is a simpler level than my previous works. Gameplay was formost in my mind this time. Ease of flying meant no protrusions for the ships to get caught on. Ease of finding other ships to fight and weapons to fight them with meant a simple, small layout. And it had to be something I could build quickly, because I don't have weeks to build it. This level came together, from concept to completion, in about 5 days. Which is a record for me.
So I applogize to my former self, and anyone who might still feel as I did. The level is as it is. I like it, and I'm not changing it.
I also feel this level is more "Descent-ish" than my previous works, and I like that. For whatever that's worth.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:41 am
by Ferno
methormer
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:47 am
by Arbitar
Looks great! Can't wait to see it out on the servers.
A name, eh? Hmm ... the amouts of lava might suggest a name such as 'Hellfire', yet the Descent feeling might call for a name simple and pertaining to the game .. I noted that the name 'Descent' hasn't been taken
1 last thing .. how do you do rock?
Iv'e been trying forever, and it always looks like some texture warping snowman.
Not a good analogy, eh?
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:01 am
by Diedel
"Hammerworks".
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 4:08 am
by scottris
Arbitar:
"Hellfire" has been used. One of Vertigo's levels iirc. Very nice little level.
Rock, eh? I'm actually very pleased with the way the rock came out in this level. The construction process went something like this:
-Start with a basic shape, cylinder, box whatever the basic shape you want the room to have. Divide up the walls into a grid (not too small of a grid, you'll wind up with far too many polygons). You can use the Split Faces at Plane function to do this, or just do a bunch of extrudes. Whatever works.
-Then just start randomly moving verts until you get a nice "crumpled" shape. Don't forget to triangulate all non-planar faces when you're done. Well, you can triangulate at any point, but if you wait until the end, you might find a few faces are still planar, and you can save a few polys by not triangulating them.
-Apply a nice rock texture. Mark all your rock faces (if you have the latest D3Edit build, and you really should, you can use the Matching Textures function on the Mark bar). Align, Marked Faces, Default UVs. Don't skip that step, it's important since after moving the verts around all the texture coord will be slightly off and you'll get "warping" textures. You don't want that.
-Also, consider the scale of your texture. If you're dealing with large faces where the texture tiles multiple times across a single polygon, consider enlarging the texture. For this level, all the rocks (and lava) had their texture scaled x2 (200%). In the Texture Align box, set the scale to 2, or 1.5, 1.2, whatever, and Expand U and Expand V. I wouldn't recommend going above a scale of 2 however, because while you're increasing the area covered by the texture, you're loosing texture resolution.
-Now, you won't be able to perfectly align a texture across an uneven wall, nor do you really want to in this case, but you should try to align the texture across as many convex edges as possible. Texture seams aren't nearly so bad on concave edges.
-And don't forget about the lighting. Good lighting is key. No matter what you do with the shape or textures, the wall will be ugly if it's over-lit. You want the lights to bring out the shape of the walls. Keep the Ambient Light setting low, if you use it at all. And mind the position of the lights in the room. Lights that are near parallel to the wall will show off the rock shapes nicely. Lights perpendicular to the wall won't. Personally, I love the way the lava pools light up the walls in this level.
And that's it. That's all the rock-building tips I have. Of course, that's coming from someone who has yet to release a level with any caves or rock walls; This will be my first. I think the rocks in this level look fantastic, but that's me. You'll have to judge that for yourself when this level is released.
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 10:11 am
by Grendel
Lothar wrote:The Pit
Hehe -- was the 1st thought that came into my mind too
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:44 am
by Lothar
OK, well then, how about "the depths"?
EDIT:
Or "The Deep"
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 11:59 am
by Asrale
The Abyss? Dark Abyss? Fire Cavern?
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 1:55 pm
by Arbitar
Thanks a ton scottris!!
Hellfire is taken?
Hmmm what about ...
...
Lava Reef? lol
uhhm ...
Lavaland ...
uhhm I'm outta ideas
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:20 pm
by Wolf on Air
"Geothermal Power" / Power Station / Powerplant / etc
"Magma Processing Station" / etc
"Heatpipe" / "Heatsink" - "Heat(sink|pipe) Not Included"
"Heavy Air Conditioning"
are the spontaneous reactions... I'll see if I think of some more
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 2:55 pm
by Grendel
I'm still for "Lava Pit"
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:16 pm
by KoolBear
"Pits of Despair"
"The Cauldren"
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 3:21 pm
by Robo
Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:15 pm
by Vindicator
Nutsack!
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 3:46 am
by Diti
Hi scottris!
Nice looking level! looks like a cave in a vulcano. So "Vulcave" could sound nice?!
To the poly count problem:
I also know this problem and that is the reason why I reduced (after it has been alredy finished...sigh) the poly count to a third. Why? The reasons are the same you gave: The players want to rush thru the level - wanna have a fast gameplay...hmmm..and maybe some eyecandy, but not to much because you want to focus on the others and not on the look of the level.
Take a look at the levels that are played in "heavy rotation": are there any among them who have much eyecandy or many polies? - nay...almost NOT.
So: Player get's what player wants: ugly levels for fast gameplay and an easy-to-target-opponent
To the rocks:
There exists a nice tutorial for building rocks
But anyways: I do it the same way like you (no... I "extrude" and don't "split faces"....hm...doesn't matter...)
I wanna add (for those who think about creating rocks) that you are dealing with many many polies when you are building rocks! So take care of where you place them within a level! A room with 10 rocks and 3000 polies might be looking awesome (with cool lighting) - but would be playable in singleplay mode only.
To the lighting:
I have recognized that low-poly levels gotr more airplay. - ok - but these levels have a "lighting" that doesn't really deserve the pradicat: good/ambiant/cool or whatever. Most levels of this kind look quit white. (not to be rassistic
)
I am well known for my colorful levels - but I am often criticied therefore.
But lighting is more important than many might think: build a room w/o lighting: fly thru it an find it ugly! - now put in some (ambient) light: fly thru it and see how completely different the room looks alike!
My 2 cents.
Diti
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:22 am
by Vertigo
I still don't understand why you can't combine good looks with playability...
Example 1
Example 2
And yes, HellFire is taken
Ultimately i think it's the weapon layout that make people play or not play a level...
If you make a missile boating level then the chances of it becoming popular ar 10 times higher than with a more 'dogfighting' weapon loadout....
But that's beating a dead horse, i guess.
Level looks ok scottris, not jaw-dropping, but better than most stuff out there.
(/me is fan of high-poly goodness)
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:37 am
by DarkFlameWolf
Vertigo wrote:I still don't understand why you can't combine good looks with playability...
Example 1
Example 2
And yes, HellFire is taken
Ultimately i think it's the weapon layout that make people play or not play a level...
If you make a missile boating level then the chances of it becoming popular ar 10 times higher than with a more 'dogfighting' weapon loadout....
But that's beating a dead horse, i guess.
Level looks ok scottris, not jaw-dropping, but better than most stuff out there.
(/me is fan of high-poly goodness)
Amen Vertigo. It takes one thing for someone to make a perfectly good level with awesome gameflow. It takes an even better level designer to do the same thing but add beautiful eye candy to it that isn't distracting or something you can get caught on. Must find that balance. And Lothar, I already suggested 'The Deep.'
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 5:53 am
by Diti
Vertigo wrote:I still don't understand why you can't combine good looks with playability...
Example 1
Example 2
You will find exceptions for everything....
Vertigo wrote:Ultimately i think it's the weapon layout that make people play or not play a level...
If you make a missile boating level then the chances of it becoming popular ar 10 times higher than with a more 'dogfighting' weapon loadout....
But that's beating a dead horse, i guess.
We tested subwaydancer over months before Atan released it. The main thing we tested: weapon layout and balance.
Let me say that weapon layout is besides other one of the more important thing to focus on.
(/me thinks that we are gettin a bit offtopic....hehe...should we open a new thread "hints und tricks for level-designers"
? )
Vertigo wrote:(/me is fan of high-poly goodness)
/me 2
I wish the 3D engine would be more powerfull....
Diti
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2004 1:17 pm
by scottris
I'm not saying I built a Skybox* here. Frankly, I think this level is a great balance between good looks and low framerate. Truth is, I don't see it as "bare and empty". I think this is actually my best looking level yet. Despite the lack of railings and ladders.
Not that I don't appreciate the feedback, but I'm satisfied with the geometry. Now it just needs some testing to assure the weapons load is adequate.
Although there is one room with which I'm not very pleased, but I'm just going to let it go. Not worth holding up the level for.
Thanks for all the name suggestions. Picking just one isn't going to be easy.
* Not that I have anything against Skybox. It's a good level. It just also happens to be a good example of an extremely low poly structure.
Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:27 pm
by pipsqueak10
To me its a very nice looking level. I'd call it Brimstone
Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:43 pm
by Duper
I second "Cauldren"
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:15 pm
by Sirius
...
Edge of Vesuvius? O.o
Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 6:33 am
by Nightmare USA
Heheh yes the name, sometimes the hardest part for me too! I am currently in beta stage for my next level and I had a hard time naming it as well.
How about "Drop Off"or "Despair"
level names
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:11 pm
by TIGERassault
Picking level names gets a lot easier if you add a theme to them.
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 6:59 pm
by DarkFlameWolf
holy ressurrecting old topics Batman!
Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:10 pm
by Skyalmian
This isn't that old.
A name for your level
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 5:21 am
by TIGERassault
If you turned the lava into acid then you could call it "Poison Production Factory".
Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2004 7:32 am
by scottris
Thanks but I'm settled on a name. However I decided I really didn't like one of the rooms, so that's what the hold up is. That, and lack of time.
Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2004 10:39 am
by Pandora
Scottris, i know you already settled on a name, but I just came over the word 'Caldera' in a book (which is supposed to mean 'crater') and immediately had to think of your level.
Other than that --- the level looks great!
Posted: Thu Aug 19, 2004 2:15 pm
by Suncho
Scottris, I think it looks awesome!
I have a name idea. How about "The Core"