DescentBB

This is something children should NOT be exposed to. It's utter garbage.

https://pjmedia.com/parenting/2016/03/2 ... ender-day/

And what does 'transgender' mean anyway? Respecting the mental delusion of being something that you weren't born as naturally?

There are people that genuinely believe they are cats or wolves 'trapped in human bodies.'

Should there be a 'transmammal' day too?
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I am a happy person trapped in an E&C moderator's body.

Check your fly TB, your ignorance is showing.

Nightshade wrote:And anyway, what does 'transgender' mean anyway? Respecting the mental delusion of being something that you weren't born as naturally?

Try asking the question honestly, without preconceptions. You'll sound less ignorant.

vision wrote:

Nightshade wrote:And anyway, what does 'transgender' mean anyway? Respecting the mental delusion of being something that you weren't born as naturally?

Try asking the question honestly, without preconceptions. You'll sound less ignorant.

Seriously...how are these delusions different? Explain.

four questions:

1) what do people believing their animals have to do with those who are trans

2) why do you think it's a mental affliction?

3) why the appeal to nature?

4) why haven't you watched this yet?

the 19th century needs its thinking back, NS.

Most of all pisses me off, that at the national level exists and continues to be carried out enormous pressure on the American states, who are against the transformation of sexual mental disorders some people in the natural norm of conduct for all normal people. What is wrong is that people want to keep the commandments of Christ and the majority of other religions? I can not call it otherwise, as the monstrous and degrading discrimination against believers, traditionally oriented people. Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Arizona, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Utah, continue to assert your rights, I am with you!

I didn’t check the link, and I don’t know if there actually is a transgender day. But I don’t think there should be a transgender day, just seems a little silly. And this is not based on some kind of insensitivity or ignorance, it just seems a little silly.

.......

Oh, this is in the UK…never mind.

In any civilized country, there are special areas in public places for smokers, for nudists, etc., to protect other people from these needs, is not it? Don't you think that LGBT is the same thing?

Nightshade, I'm having a hard time understanding your position here. Is it that...

1) It is biologically impossible to develop the mind of one sex and the body of another?
2) People with the mind of one sex and the body of another exist but they ought to change their mind to fit their body instead of the other way around? Or somehow just live with it?
3) Something else?

as for having a 'Day'.....everyone and everything seems to get a special day, so why not? I'm guessing it isn't something celebrated in elementary schools and likely not in Sunday schools, but for those who deal with the inequities and abuse on a regular basis, why not kick back and enjoy a day?

Nightshade wrote:This is something children should NOT be exposed to. It's utter garbage.

Agreed. Very screwed up. There's a level of insanity involved, for one thing. There's another level of insanity involved in seeking to embrace this insanity.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:

Nightshade wrote:This is something children should NOT be exposed to. It's utter garbage.

Agreed. Very screwed up. There's a level of insanity involved, for one thing. There's another level of insanity involved in seeking to embrace this insanity.

Could you explain your position then? I probably don't understand transsexuality as well as I should, but I don't think I will ever understand the fervent opposition to it. For instance, would you agree with one of the positions in my previous post? Or for you, does it just come down to because God forbids it (because if so, then we can just agree to disagree and move on that much sooner)?

No, I have a natural repulsion to it too, because as I said it is insanity. Men and women are what they are, and ought to be emotionally and psychologically equipped to square with that, and even excel at it. A man is not somehow a woman, a woman is not a man, and men and women are not any variety of animal. I think it's kind of humorous that you people exclude hard-core "furries" from the LGBT arena, and in my opinion it's just for lack of conditioning in that particular area. Granted it takes a little more doing to get there. Maybe give it a few years.

The spiritual side of it is a lot more serious, and amounts to condoning behavior inspired and encouraged by evil, supernatural influence, designed to put us at odds with God's order, bringing us into the greatest possible condemnation with our creator, and to prevent us from even being able to be reconciled without a special/unusual effort on God's part for God's purpose.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:The spiritual side of it is a lot more serious, and amounts to condoning behavior inspired and encouraged by evil, supernatural influence, designed to put us at odds with God's order, bringing us into the greatest possible condemnation with our creator, and to prevent us from being able to be reconciled.

Insanity, indeed!

Sergeant Thorne wrote: The spiritual side of it is a lot more serious, and amounts to condoning behavior inspired and encouraged by evil, supernatural influence, designed to put us at odds with God's order, bringing us into the greatest possible condemnation with our creator, and to prevent us from even being able to be reconciled without a special/unusual effort on God's part for God's purpose.

"it's not natural, therefore it's wrong!"

bigotry in the name of religion and an appeal to nature. not worth addressing.

You're welcome, Jeff. Anyone else wanna jump on that before we take a break from trolling and get back on topic?

kinda tough to tell what is 'trolling', given the OP.

Does anyone have a reason for rejecting transgender persons that isn't rooted in ignorance and bigotry?

Anyone?

bad choices in accessories, perhaps?

callmeslick wrote:bad choices in accessories, perhaps?

Perhaps! Actually, there are two transwomen in my neighborhood both of them dress a little tacky. This is in contrast to the transwoman nurse at my doctor's office who seems to have her style under control, heh. I rarely notice transmen, but that's almost certainly due to my orientation bias and not that they are any better than accessorizing. It's also easier to be a man that way.

on the opposite side, I remember a trip I made into Lower Manhattan with my daughter, about 15 years ago. We got off the subway in the Upper Village, and were walking down to the theater and restaurant on the agenda when we passed a 'ladies' shoe store. My daughter was very impressed at the artsy and stylish collection of high heels in the display window. The fact that most were in about a Ladies Size 14 or so didn't sink in on her at first.......

vision wrote:Does anyone have a reason for rejecting transgender persons that isn't rooted in ignorance and bigotry?

Anyone?

around here? I highly doubt it.

vision wrote:Does anyone have a reason for rejecting transgender persons that isn't rooted in ignorance and bigotry?

Anyone?

They shouldn't be rejected...just treated for the mental disorder they have.

callmeslick wrote:the 19th century needs its thinking back, NS.

So how is a person that thinks they're a cat in a human's body different from a person that thinks they're a woman in a man's body?

I'm sure the latter is more common, but it's just as delusional as the first case.

I don't claim to have a deep knowledge of the issues facing transgender people. I don't stay current on proper pronoun usage. A lot of it just seems plain weird to me, and I likely hold some views that can probably be deemed offensive. But when it comes down to it, we're all trying to make our short existence a bit more bearable. (that is not a furry pun!) What works for me doesn't have to work for everyone. What works for other people doesn't have to work for me.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Men and women are what they are, and ought to be emotionally and psychologically equipped to square with that, and even excel at it.

So to be clear, if someone has the mind of a man and the body of a woman, is that person a man or a woman? Or do you reject that as being a biologically possible circumstance?

Nightshade wrote:They shouldn't be rejected...just treated for the mental disorder they have.

So what if you can be shown (and recent research has revealed multiple instances of such) that transgender individuals have physical brain structures/chemistry which correspond far more closely with their identified gender than with their genitalia? Is that still just a "mental disorder" to you? The more we learn about human development, the more we realize the myriad of factors and the insane complexity that go into an individual's mental structure and identity. And occasionally, for whatever reason, the development in the brain doesn't quite match the development below the belt, and the result is gender dysphoria. Transgender people are not people who wake up one day and think, "Hey, I'm gonna be a dude/chick from now on!" They are people who quite literally developed a body that is different than their fundamental sense of self. It's not something that can be "cured," any more than you yourself can be cured of the notion that you are male.

And let's be blunt here: making the "It's like people who think they're cats!" comparison is every bit as ignorant and insulting as the old "Allowing gay marriage is like allowing pedophilia and bestiality!" chestnut.

Nightshade wrote:So how is a person that thinks they're a cat in a human's body different from a person that thinks they're a woman in a man's body?

I'm sure the latter is more common, but it's just as delusional as the first case.

Given the various kinds of intersex conditions that people are born with, the former to me (someone with the mind of a woman in the body of a man) seems much more biologically plausible, whereas I've never heard of anyone being born with cat parts, and so I find it less biologically plausible to have the mind of a cat in the body of a man.

With that said, I wouldn't actively discriminate against either group as long as no one is harming others or themselves.

Attempting to throw out the idea that a person born with mismatched gender-anatomy is a “disorder” doesn’t really help the argument either.

There is definitely something wrong, and the only question is…should a person seek a “cure” or simply adjust to the circumstances.

I personally have no opinion as to which would be better, that has to be up the individual, but seeing how much of an argument is made that genders are just cultural constructs, possibly either option is valid.

In short, at home, you can implement any sexual fantasies by mutual agreement with your girl. But it is not necessary to show it in public, and to injure the psyche of other people who may not like it at all. And even more so to force the majority of ordinary people put up with the whims of influential perverts using biased judges' decisions. This is worse than full lawlessness.

Jeff250 wrote: I've never heard of anyone being born with cat parts, and so I find it less biologically plausible to have the mind of a cat in the body of a man.

So, do you have a ribcage? "Cat part" right there... Eyes? Cat part... Heart...liver...intestines...etc.

Again... what's the difference in delusion?

Jeff250 wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Men and women are what they are, and ought to be emotionally and psychologically equipped to square with that, and even excel at it.

So to be clear, if someone has the mind of a man and the body of a woman, is that person a man or a woman? Or do you reject that as being a biologically possible circumstance?

I would say I reject that the cause is innate biology, and point out that "mind" cannot be used interchangeably with "brain", which is actually the "biological" object you're referring to. I think when people are tampered with physiologically all kinds of unknowns can crop up, I would state that apart from outside, chemical influence you just don't get mixed gender offspring. I would suspect that any such tampering would be of a crude, incomplete nature, resulting in a person that is innately either male or female spiritually, mentally, and biologically, despite the influence of their surroundings at any stages of their development. The mind is a powerful thing, and spiritual influence can be very powerful, and I would say I probably have the strongest case in suggesting this is the source of the aberration. If you're going to go around saying that men are born with the brains of women, or vise-versa, it leaves you to prove both that the brain is actually completely physically unique to the opposite gender, and then that the seat of their gender resides within the brain. I'm not a brain surgeon, and even brain surgeons are not masters of the brain, so if someone were to state this I would tend not to accept it (translation for the Ferno's in the room--Sergeant Thorne doesn't believe anything that goes against his preconceived notions, so make fun and be dismissive). I believe strongly, based on my experience, that a person's will is not seated in their physical body at all, and I would tend to accept the same of their gender, and probably also their mind.

Nightshade wrote:

callmeslick wrote:the 19th century needs its thinking back, NS.

So how is a person that thinks they're a cat in a human's body different from a person that thinks they're a woman in a man's body?

I'm sure the latter is more common, but it's just as delusional as the first case.

because the transgendered individual is still aware he/she is HUMAN. You see there is a continuum, not a black and white descriptive of male/masculine and female/feminine. To call it a mental illness is beyond backward, it is oblivious of the whole of modern knowledge.This isn't a new phenomenon, we've had cross-dressing forever. All that is relatively new is the surgical processes to make outward appearance different.

Spidey wrote:There is definitely something wrong, and the only question is…should a person seek a “cure” or simply adjust to the circumstances.

I wouldn't say something is "wrong," I would say something is "different" or "unusual." Living life along with a person's gender orientation IS adjusting to the circumstances of gender mismatch. It's up to society to meet people half-way.

sigma wrote:But it is not necessary to show it in public, and to injure the psyche of other people who may not like it at all.

Who knew Russians are so emotionally fragile?! What a bunch of babies.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:The mind is a powerful thing, and spiritual influence can be very powerful, and I would say I probably have the strongest case in suggesting this is the source of the aberration.

Deep ignorance of biology.

Nightshade wrote:So how is a person that thinks they're a cat in a human's body different from a person that thinks they're a woman in a man's body?

You are confusing Transgender with Species dysphoria. Pick one to talk about, because they are not the same even though there are similarities in experience.

ST wrote:If you're going to go around saying that men are born with the brains of women, or vise-versa, it leaves you to prove both that the brain is actually completely physically unique to the opposite gender, and then that the seat of their gender resides within the brain.

Brains of course aren't completely unique to different genders, but men and women for instance are known to have differences in brain structure that can be easily measured. Where else would gender reside than in the brain? Gender is probably something more subtle than simply brain structure though. For instance, maybe gender is a configuration of neural connections?

ST wrote:I believe strongly, based on my experience, that a person's will is not seated in their physical body at all, and I would tend to accept the same of their gender, and probably also their mind.

You mean it is seated in their soul? Obviously I disagree, but I don't know if that really changes anything. It's not any clearer that someone through biological processes can't get the wrong body for their soul than someone can't get the wrong body for their brain, unless God is actively divinely intervening to make sure that this never happens. But he could do that not just for souls but for brains too I suppose. In any case, intersex conditions would be a problem for that kind of explanation.

vision wrote:You are confusing Transgender with Species dysphoria. Pick one to talk about, because they are not the same even though there are similarities in experience.

Ever heard of 'gender dysphoria?'

vision wrote:

sigma wrote:But it is not necessary to show it in public, and to injure the psyche of other people who may not like it at all.

Who knew Russians are so emotionally fragile?! What a bunch of babies.

Yeah, I'm very emotionally fragile. It would be better for you that I did not see your blue lascivious look at me or my children, or else your face may meet up with my knee several times.

See Russians are cool. Just don't cut them off in traffic or disrespect them on the internet. (or dare them when Vodka is present)