DescentBB

I went by StatiC (with a capital C). There was another Static that used a small c and was part of Rangers early on and that is not me. I started playing Descent 2 when it was first released and then quickly got on Kali with my dialup modem and eventually cable modem. I joined DMC around the time they started in the 90's. I hosted the website for a short period of time on my cable modem and think I still have it on an old hard drive somewhere. I am very bad with names though and only remember a few of them like VLiDER and Gunslinger :/. It is hard to believe it was 20 years ago! I still have fond memories of playing the levels that Gunslinger created like {DMC}Enraged.

I just recently joined the Descent Champions Ladder (as StatiC) to get some skills back that I lost even though I was never near the top of the skill level. I also joined the Rangers a week or so ago because they regularly play still. I have a family now that takes time but I still try to get on nightly to get some time in.... and usually stay up way too late .

Anyone left of DMC or have memories of them? I was not a member for the entire lifespan of DMC as I got out of Descent 2 after about a year or two after joining DMC. I can't remember the exact timing though as it was a very long time ago. I did find the post below that referenced DMC...

viewtopic.php?p=123971#p123971

EDIT: I found the backup I made of the DMC website from 1999 There were active and inactive roster pages. Assuming they were accurate...

Active Members at the time:
AaronX
CloudStrife
Crusher
DarkJedi
Diablo
EgaD
FreakO
Ginrummy
Goat
Kage
Krypt
lil_ThumP
Makaveli
Mesmerist
MohamaD
MORG
Mousepad
Potatohead
Retribution
Scorcher
sfuzzi
Skyler
Sin
StatiC
Strife
Thundercat
Tomcatt
TROOP
Tyranny
UsuL
Vlider
Warmaster
Z

Inactive members at the time:
Abuze
Airk
Anakin
B00MER
Brood
Crusher
DarkTerror
Ekg
fyrephlie
GeCKo
Ginrummy
Grmreapr
Iguana:)
Jupitersio
Kiljoy
Manray
Mat
nine4you
Octupi
Overlord
Surge
Tbr
Venus
Virago
Xevious

Most of those players from the old DMC have faded into history. I think Mousepad changed his name to TheCops and hasn't been seen for awhile. You can ask at the http://www.descentbb.com where he was last seen. Tyranny still might post here.

Over 15 years ago the DMC was brought back again, but it was short lived. These were the other members at the time if you're interested in see it.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010220192 ... ricks.org/

Hmm, some of those guys have returned actually. Moh and Warmaster have been playing recently. Strife maybe, if it's the same one, but it's hard to be sure. I spotted Mesmerist on the Descent: Underground forums, though that was quite a few months ago. I do know where to find Potatohead but he isn't involved with the Descent community anymore.

I'm engaging in some serious thread necromancy, here, but after seeing this posting of screenshots from the old DMC website I just had to respond. Especially, since my call sign is listed, albeit as an inactive member.

I am, in fact, {DMC}B00MER from that list. It's crazy seeing the Dark Mavericks' Collegiate still mentioned in 2016! I haven't played any of the Decent games in close to two decades. Ah, but I do have some fond memories of those days; especially, when Tyranny and I would square off one-on-one to see who was better. I wish I still had the recordings; some great moments were lost.

With Descent: Underground on the horizon, it may be time to hop in the pilot's seat once again. Damn, I'm going to be terrible. Not that I was ever great in the first place. Anyways, just thought I'd put this out there and see what happens.

Tyranny was on the DCL briefly a couple years ago - haven't seen him much since then though. It's a pity, he was looking pretty good

I'd also suggest watching Overload and Sol Contingency, as far as games go. We're not quite sure which one will be the best, but people have their favorites already.

Sirius wrote:Tyranny was on the DCL briefly a couple years ago - haven't seen him much since then though. It's a pity, he was looking pretty good

I'd also suggest watching Overload and Sol Contingency, as far as games go. We're not quite sure which one will be the best, but people have their favorites already.

Oh, was he? Very cool.

I haven't heard from Tyranny in quite a while. He was a good friend in junior high and high school, plus he was my roommate some years later. We parted ways--what--five years ago; six? I'm not sure.

If you'll forgive my reminiscing, I remember introducing Tyranny to Descent back in the mid 90's. We had a Descent tournament at my house for my birthday and Tyranny had never played the game before. In fact, I was the only one among my friends with any Descent experience at the time so in an attempt to keep things fair we set it up so I would play the winner of the tournament. Tyranny won and we faced off against each other for the first time. After that, he was hooked.

On a humorous note, Tyranny was the first (and I believe only) person to be admitted to the DMC before having any way of connecting to the Internet. In fact, we used to jokingly call him {ISP}Tyranny at school. I don't remember the reaction of--I think Vlider--to the idea of letting in someone with no real way of participating (at the time), but he agreed to it. Good times.

As for Sol Contingency and Overload, I'll have to check them out. Thanks for the recommendation. Is there not much interest in Descent: Underground?

Najarati wrote:As for Sol Contingency and Overload, I'll have to check them out. Thanks for the recommendation. Is there not much interest in Descent: Underground?

In short, Overload is still quite crude, but clearly identified as classic Descent, if you are in SolC, you feel instantly that this is Descent, while if you are in D:U, you're a long time thinking what this is.

sigma wrote:In short, Overload is still quite crude, but clearly identified as classic Descent, if you are in SolC, you feel instantly that this is Descent, while if you are in D:U, you're a long time thinking what this is.

I took a quick look at both Overload and SolC and I'm intrigued. Both of them instantly gave me that classic Descent feel, especially Overload; however, the latter is planning on releasing multiplayer as an expansion later down the line if the Kickstarter campaign is successful and for me multiplayer is a must. Furthermore, level editing for Overload is something the developers "hope for" but isn't an official piece of the game, yet. Personally, I loved creating multiplayer levels for Descent, even more so than playing it.

Najarati, I have long been an incorrigible fan of Descent 3, any mods and maps. Sometimes I play Descent 1/2 for nostalgia.
I'm pretty tightly communicate with the mappers and modders, but in other games.

sigma wrote:Najarati, I have long been an incorrigible fan of Descent 3, any mods and maps. Sometimes I play Descent 1/2 for nostalgia.
I'm pretty tightly communicate with the mappers and modders, but in other games.

I did play Descent 3 starting day one of its release, but my interest waned after a few months. I didn't like the feel of Descent 3 as much as its predecessors. When it came to creating levels, I also remember having a difficult time adapting to the new way levels were constructed. That was a long time ago, though. My feelings may be different now, but I'm content to wait for one of these new comers to arrive.

Level editing was a definite for Overload, it was the modding tools and documentation that was a stretch goal.

Najarati wrote:

sigma wrote:Najarati, I have long been an incorrigible fan of Descent 3, any mods and maps. Sometimes I play Descent 1/2 for nostalgia.
I'm pretty tightly communicate with the mappers and modders, but in other games.

I did play Descent 3 starting day one of its release, but my interest waned after a few months. I didn't like the feel of Descent 3 as much as its predecessors. When it came to creating levels, I also remember having a difficult time adapting to the new way levels were constructed. That was a long time ago, though. My feelings may be different now, but I'm content to wait for one of these new comers to arrive.

Naturally, I do not play only Descent. I play in the space, aircraft and helicopter simulators, and not only play, but also to help modders. I just do not talk about it here. Of course, I like also some usual shooters. Despite the fact that in multiplayer of Descent I can't boast of skill, because I like more to travel in single, but for example in multiplayer any Stalker or CS with me better not to meet. It's useless

Sirius wrote:Level editing was a definite for Overload, it was the modding tools and documentation that was a stretch goal.

Ah, very good. I thought level editing was considered part of the modding tools. I've been wanting to port some of my old Descent/Descent 2 levels into a modern Descent-like game for a while, now.

sigma wrote:Naturally, I do not play only Descent. I play in the space, aircraft and helicopter simulators, and not only play, but also to help modders. I just do not talk about it here. Of course, I like also some usual shooters. Despite the fact that in multiplayer of Descent I can't boast of skill, because I like more to travel in single, but for example in multiplayer any Stalker or CS with me better not to meet. It's useless

Hah! Well, I seldom play first person shooters or simulators so I'll not likely meet you any time soon on the battlefield; well, except perhaps in Overload, SolC, or D:U.

On a semi-related note, I began something over the weekend I've not done in about 18 years--level design for Descent 2. I downloaded Descent 2 Rebirth, the Descent Level Editor, and jumped headlong into designing. Honestly, it was like riding a bike.

Thinking back, this relates to unfinished business. After redoing Shogun Tournament (the redone version appears lost, sadly) near the end of my level-designing stint I wanted to redo Omnidoom, but never got around to doing it. I aim to rectify that, albeit almost 20 years later. As of this writing, I have about half of the middle floor done and I have to say it's looking pretty good, especially compared to the original; there only seems to be a really old version floating around as it's unpolished and I'm certain I made updates to it back in the day.

Even if Omnidoom Rebirth (the new name) never sees play, creating it makes me realize much I enjoyed designing levels for Descent 2. If I can cram everything I envision into this beast it's going to be pretty cool, but we'll see.

Man, I've really been on a nostalgia kick lately.

Overload's level editor looks like it will be along the same lines, and really cool.
I've been building a couple D2X-XL missions for practise, though I don't know I'll ever finish them...

Alter-Fox wrote:Overload's level editor looks like it will be along the same lines, and really cool.
I've been building a couple D2X-XL missions for practise, though I don't know I'll ever finish them...

Ah, if that's the case it should be quite fun and hopefully easy to pick up. As for D2X-XL, I was debating between designing a level for it or for D2 Rebirth and ultimately went with the latter since it cleaves closer to the original Descent 2 experience.

I'm determined to finish this level, although D2E is already warning me of having too many segments (despite being well below the listed maximum in the diagnostics.). Ah well, it still works in D2R.

That's because there are multiple maxima, so to speak. DLE, D2X-XL and D2 Rebirth all support several thousand cubes; the original version of D2 only supported 900.

Sirius wrote:That's because there are multiple maxima, so to speak. DLE, D2X-XL and D2 Rebirth all support several thousand cubes; the original version of D2 only supported 900.

Well, that makes sense. I'm glad for the increased cube limit. Speaking of which, the level is slowly coming together:

Screenshot 1

Screenshot 2

Screenshot 3

Editor View

Unfortunately, I'm experiencing some "cube drop" in places where the Descent engine doesn't render all the cubes from certain distances, leaving black spaces; might have gone a bit overboard with cubes.

Well, shoot. I seem to have hit a snag. If I add any more segments DLE crashes no matter what I do. According to the diagnostics, the maximum is 20,000 segments and I'm nowhere near that at 1763. Anyone experience this issue and have workarounds?

UPDATE: It seems I've hit the vertices limit at 3,606; or at least that is what DLE is now telling me. Ah well, so I won't be able to quite go as crazy as I initially envisioned. The layout is mostly done anyways. Just to delete some of the excess segments.

What are the popular weapon distributions in D2 levels these days?

Yeah, there's an accidentally-enforced vertex limit I haven't, uh, gotten around to fixing yet. Really need to do that, you're not the only one who wants that.

Um... so... popular weapon distributions mainly apply to multiplayer levels, and... if you're flirting with the cube limit you probably have a whole lot more space than levels typically have. So you may need to put more guns in there, assume there will be 8 players (might take a while for them to find each other even then ), and so on. For things you can only pick up one of (afterburners, primary weapons) that might mean adding more than one per player just so they don't need to scour the level to find where that last one is.

Other than that, popular stuff:
Afterburners
Quad lasers / super lasers
Vulcan cannon or Gauss cannon (or both, some levels do that but the Vulcan rarely sees use when the Gauss is available)
Plasma cannon
Spreadfire and Fusion also show up in most levels but are often ignored unless the Retro-mod feature to use D1 damage values is in use.
Flash missiles (a few)
Homing missiles (moderate)
Guided missiles (a few)
Prox bombs (a few; some people actually use them, probably more often in D1 though)
Smart missiles (as many as you want)
Mercury missiles (moderate to many, depending on taste)
Mega missiles (0-2 typically; not all authors choose to add them, depends how you want the level to feel)
Ammo racks and Vulcan Ammo if you want a Min69-style level, otherwise probably not

Helix, Phoenix, Smart Mines, Earthshakers, Cloaking/Invulnerability devices are left out of most mainstream levels. I sometimes see Omega but it isn't well-liked. Shield Converters and Headlights I haven't paid much attention to but usually people don't care much about those one way or the other.

Sirius wrote:Yeah, there's an accidentally-enforced vertex limit I haven't, uh, gotten around to fixing yet. Really need to do that, you're not the only one who wants that.

Good to know! Should I hold out for a fix? I can sit on the level for a bit in the meantime.

Sirius wrote:Um... so... popular weapon distributions mainly apply to multiplayer levels, and... if you're flirting with the cube limit you probably have a whole lot more space than levels typically have.

It's not a very big multiplayer level at all, actually; it's just very segment intensive (and not terribly efficient) due to architecture. In fact, it's a remake of the smallest Anarchy level I ever made. I just wanted to see how crazy I could go with the complexity (probably went too much, unfortunately). I always assume 8 players even on small levels (though it may be a bit crowded).

Sirius wrote:So you may need to put more guns in there, assume there will be 8 players (might take a while for them to find each other even then ), and so on. For things you can only pick up one of (afterburners, primary weapons) that might mean adding more than one per player just so they don't need to scour the level to find where that last one is.

Other than that, popular stuff:
Afterburners
Quad lasers / super lasers
Vulcan cannon or Gauss cannon (or both, some levels do that but the Vulcan rarely sees use when the Gauss is available)
Plasma cannon
Spreadfire and Fusion also show up in most levels but are often ignored unless the Retro-mod feature to use D1 damage values is in use.
Flash missiles (a few)
Homing missiles (moderate)
Guided missiles (a few)
Prox bombs (a few; some people actually use them, probably more often in D1 though)
Smart missiles (as many as you want)
Mercury missiles (moderate to many, depending on taste)
Mega missiles (0-2 typically; not all authors choose to add them, depends how you want the level to feel)
Ammo racks and Vulcan Ammo if you want a Min69-style level, otherwise probably not

Helix, Phoenix, Smart Mines, Earthshakers, Cloaking/Invulnerability devices are left out of most mainstream levels. I sometimes see Omega but it isn't well-liked. Shield Converters and Headlights I haven't paid much attention to but usually people don't care much about those one way or the other.

So, not too much different than I remember. Cool! Thanks for the response.

Hmmm. It's hard to say. I might have a chance to get it fixed within the next couple weeks; but it's hard to be sure whether I'll have enough time. It depends how much uncertainty you're willing to work with
And how long you expect the project to take anyway.

Sirius wrote:Hmmm. It's hard to say. I might have a chance to get it fixed within the next couple weeks; but it's hard to be sure whether I'll have enough time. It depends how much uncertainty you're willing to work with
And how long you expect the project to take anyway.

Right now, it all boils down to whether or not I want to add the third "tier" to the level (I'm basing the design loosely off the original Omnidoom). Initially, I wasn't going to include the third tier, but I decided the level was a little small and wanted to add one more avenue for combatants. If I don't (or in this case, can't) add the third tier it's simply a manner of cleanup and adding in weapons. If I do want to add the third tier (and, I'd like to give it a go), I have to wait since I need more vertices in order to complete the third tier.

As it stands, I have a partially completed third tier, which I can likely finish within a week provided the vertices restriction is removed; otherwise, I have no real deadline, though I'd like to finish by the end of September.

OK, think I fixed it (there were three separate issues that I ran into) - see if this works.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40598935/DLE.exe

Sirius wrote:OK, think I fixed it (there were three separate issues that I ran into) - see if this works.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/40598935/DLE.exe

Ah, most excellent! I replaced the file and fired up the editor. I started inserting a random bunch of cubes and was able to take the level up to 2001 vertices without issue (though, I haven't saved anything, yet). So far, so good. I'll give it more testing over the weekend now that I can return to my level editing. I'll let you know if I experience any problems.

How's that for service, folks? It's not every day you can get a specific software issue fixed in a week or two.

Thanks for the help, Sirius! Do you plan on making this an official release?

I've discovered some interesting behavior with marking.

Symptoms: I mark several sides and go into block mode with the intent to move the lot of them. Even though all the appropriate lines/points are marked orange and have boxes on the points, DLE either doesn't move all the lines/points or doesn't move anything at all.

Conjecture: I think the above symptoms might be related to exceeding the vertices and/or segment limit of the base game; DLE gives me warnings for both. Why do I think this? If I start a fresh level, add a few segments, mark a few sides, and try to move them in block mode DLE functions as expected.

Unfortunately, while this isn't a hard wall like the "Too many vertices" error from before, I find manipulating more than one side or segment to be incredibly cumbersome or, at times, impossible. I'm spending more time fighting DLE than getting any work done.

Thoughts?

The official release isn't up to me alone, but I'll finish up my part once I get back home. One of the things I have to look at is performance - modifying some of those operations to run all the way up to 60,000 or whatever vertices could in theory be quite slow if not optimized. Then again, if it ran at a reasonable clip on this machine's mobile processor, maybe I shouldn't be worried too much...

The marking issue was a case I missed - there was a bunch of other code, including the bit that looks for marked vertices, that was still capped at the old vertex limit. I recompiled and re-uploaded (same link) a build that should hopefully handle that properly. And also importing/exporting block files into the level, in case you're inclined to do that.

P.S. In case you get annoyed by the warnings, there is an option in settings to turn that off. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to new users, since there are a few features like the tunnel generator where you just think "huh?" without the details about how to use it, but once you know what to expect they can just get in the way. I've been meaning to implement "warning levels" so it's not all-or-nothing, but that's a bit of a bigger project.

Sirius wrote:The official release isn't up to me alone, but I'll finish up my part once I get back home. One of the things I have to look at is performance - modifying some of those operations to run all the way up to 60,000 or whatever vertices could in theory be quite slow if not optimized. Then again, if it ran at a reasonable clip on this machine's mobile processor, maybe I shouldn't be worried too much...

The marking issue was a case I missed - there was a bunch of other code, including the bit that looks for marked vertices, that was still capped at the old vertex limit. I recompiled and re-uploaded (same link) a build that should hopefully handle that properly. And also importing/exporting block files into the level, in case you're inclined to do that.

P.S. In case you get annoyed by the warnings, there is an option in settings to turn that off. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it to new users, since there are a few features like the tunnel generator where you just think "huh?" without the details about how to use it, but once you know what to expect they can just get in the way. I've been meaning to implement "warning levels" so it's not all-or-nothing, but that's a bit of a bigger project.

Thanks for the quick turnaround on this, Sirius. This latest version appears to have alleviated the issues I was experiencing and I've been able to move forward on the final stretch for the level.

I understand about performance. I haven't noticed any dip, but I'm also running a fairly powerful machine. As for the warnings, I apparently missed that option. I'm pretty used to them at this point, though, so I just tune them out. They're a much, much smaller concern. The ability take advantage of the increased segment and vertices cap is the key feature.

Thanks again. If I run into anything new, I'll post about it.

Just to show I haven't been sitting on my hands after all the DLE fixes:



Layout is essentially done. Some clean-up needed in the two "lava rooms". After that, just need to place the weapons and the level is ready for testing.

Testers Needed. See this post: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=23268