DescentBB

Hey everyone, I'm not sure if this goes here at the PTMC cafe, but I started this topic with an non-offensive and friendly approach from my part.
But if the mods think it would be better at E&C or NHB, it's OK.
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So, since I've been studying a lot on this theme of spirituality and mysticism as of recently, I got curious regarding the spirituality of the members here.
What I mean by this? I would like to know what you DBB members follow in that regard, be it either a religion, a philosophy, a doctrine, a practice, a view or a way of life in general.

As of me, I'm Buddhist, not following any special school or lineage, but I study the Buddhist scriptures and practice mindfulness meditation every now and then (partially due to medical reasons), and follow the Dharma (the way of life, precepts and philosophy of Buddhism).

I also have a theosophic touch on my spiritual/mental/moral life, but not in the sense of the actual Theosophy movement out there, but in the broader sense of the word: as a philosophy and as a way of seeking spiritual knowledge, as I also study several religions and philosophies from India (mainly Vedic and Shramana ones) and the Kabbalah.

So, what you can say about your spiritual life?

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NOTE: I wouldn't like this topic to be used to create divisions or heavy arguments on the community, I would like a sane approach if possible.
Also, I respect ALL religious/philosophical/spiritual views, including secular ones, atheists, etc. and I'm not proselytizing anyone.
So if this would be adressed without using proselytism, it will be very much appreciated.

*Sergeant Thorne parks his car next to all of the others and props the hood up*

Oops. My mistake. Wrong topic.

I follow no religion but I agree and follow the path that we should all be kind to each other. If you don't want it done to you, why do it to someone else.

Pumo wrote:So, what you can say about your spiritual life?

I was a deeply religious Catholic until my early/mid 20's when I started asking hard questions about god and found the answers to be hollow. I slowly abandoned monotheism. Ten years later I took a renewed interest in philosophy and religion which led to me studying Buddhism fairly seriously for several years, but I'm not a Buddhist — although I think it is a helpful system for some people. Today I wouldn't use the word "spiritual" to describe anything about my life. I'm a hard determinist. Even asking the question "what does it mean to be spiritual?" leads to the same problems as asking "what is god?" There is a highly subjective element to it and frankly, at my age, I've got more important things to do than ponder these questions over and over again. I have a broad understanding of spiritual matters and all the cognitive tools I need to live a successful life.

So, I live.

If miracles are possible, then how come their domain is limited to what already happens normally (even if it is sometimes unlikely)? If I have a cold and I pray for a cure and I get over it in two days instead of three, then I call it a miracle. But if miracles exist, why can't they cure someone of HIV? Why can't they restore an amputated limb? The religious know that God cannot do these things, and I doubt that they even pray for these things anymore (and if they do, then it is in vain).

I know two men who have prayed for and received healing from God for major, life-ending illness, both for themselves and others. Most church-goer experience is basically as you say, though. Most church-goers don't experience miracles, so they call things miracles that are not miracles.

CDN_Merlin wrote:I follow no religion but I agree and follow the path that we should all be kind to each other. If you don't want it done to you, why do it to someone else.

I totally agree.
Moreover, a prayer is not the solution to the problems, I know in my experience, that prayer will not save a loved one from a terrible disease.
Selfless help other people is an investment in your health and the health of others. Prayer is a relief and not a cure, and certainly not a preventive measure against the demons.

I'm a Christian. I used to follow the occult but I've backed off of that now. It makes me sad to see someone giving up on monotheism, partly because of how he'll spend his eternity (in hell), and also because it's the only belief system that makes any sense to me. I've always believed in God; for a time in grade school I wasn't sure, but other than that I've always believed in Jesus; I even believed He is the One when I was into the occult. I learned at an early age that I had to find my own answers to tough questions about God, because people in the church didn't have the answers. Once I found those answers, it strengthened my faith and confirmed what I already believed in.

Miracles are possible, but no one is guaranteed a miracle. For some reason God has decided to work like this, then things will be as they were in the days of Moses during the end times. I trust that the Lord has His reasons instead of trying to put Him at fault when things don't go my way. Why should there be a miracle to cure HIV when HIV comes from sin anyway?

Also, sometimes one has to consider that there may be a reason for a loved one dying.

Remember: there are no atheists in hell.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I know two men who have prayed for and received healing from God for major, life-ending illness, both for themselves and others. Most church-goer experience is basically as you say, though. Most church-goers don't experience miracles, so they call things miracles that are not miracles.

Which life-ending illnesses? Was it cancer? I used the example of a cold, but it maybe wasn't the best example because it makes it seem like I'm claiming that people can only successfully claim miracles concerning trivial diseases. That's not true, and cancer is a good (but not the only) example, just because of how unpredictable the disease can be. Even among atheists, you can hear three months to live and be cured of cancer a year later (or, conversely, unfortunately, be believed to be cured and be dead in three months). That's why I like the examples of HIV and limb amputations because there is no natural way for someone to be completely cured of HIV (not simply to have no symptoms of the virus but to have no presence of the virus) or to regrow an amputated limb. That's why I'm curious as to what life-ending illnesses you're referring to. I doubt it's either HIV or limb amputation restoration. I think that restoration of an amputated limb is the best example because someone could lie about having HIV and then claim to be cured (I knew someone who lied about having cancer, a Christian no less, so it's not even a stretch), whereas with restoration of an amputated limb, you would know, because one day no arm, next day arm. Do people in churches without arms even pray for arms? Or is there an understanding that that will never happen?

Jeff250 wrote:Do people in churches without arms even pray for arms? Or is there an understanding that that will never happen?

Asking the real questions. I want to know this.

I'm not going to bother elaborating a lot. Cancer, tumors ("go home and prepare to die, it's too sensitive an area to operate"), liver failure, burns (hard to fake?), ... No limb regrowth, though I have heard of it happening. I suppose a leg growing out to be as long as the other maybe comes close. At least a couple of instances I know of were instances where God let them know there was someone in need of healing present with them, and the person hadn't volunteered the illness (not in a church setting). My brother was healed from asthma after prayer during a bad attack that was pet-related.

Personally I've never experienced any miracles of healing (*shrug*), but I have experienced at least two miracles in dreams that have had lasting effects on my life. Kind of personal for this setting, but just for what that's worth.

Anyway, I just wanted to interject that. A lot of people don't experience miracles, and a lot of people call this or that a "miracle" when it clearly isn't... there are people that do experience miracles, and there is quite a bit of what I believe (with good reason, I think) is legitimate history with regard to miracles. No they aren't happening in most any churches, but then neither is the gospel, and God only does things according to his rules.

Interesting views all of your are posting.

CDN_Merlin wrote:I follow no religion but I agree and follow the path that we should all be kind to each other. If you don't want it done to you, why do it to someone else.

That's a very nice approach. As long as you are really conscious that every one of your actions will have consecuences (be it either good or bad), you'll develop ethics and morality, it doesn't matters if you're religious or not. So being kind is always ones of the best solutions you can find.

vision wrote:...
Ten years later I took a renewed interest in philosophy and religion which led to me studying Buddhism fairly seriously for several years, but I'm not a Buddhist — although I think it is a helpful system for some people. Today I wouldn't use the word "spiritual" to describe anything about my life. I'm a hard determinist. Even asking the question "what does it mean to be spiritual?" leads to the same problems as asking "what is god?"
...
So, I live.

I think that most religions (specially the most developed) and philosophies are actually tools to be used to help you on your life and understanding of it, rather than dogmatic closed systems.
So as tools they are, they may fit differently to different people, so for some people the best tool can be Christianism, for others like me, Buddhism, and for other Nihilsm or whatever. And I liked your last phrase a lot: 'So, I live'. Simple as that!

Burlyman wrote:It makes me sad to see someone giving up on monotheism, partly because of how he'll spend his eternity (in hell)

In my point of view, I think that beings can spend some time in hell (or something similar to it, like a hellish way of life) not simply for giving up a belief system, but for acting unethically or immoral. Also, I do believe in hell, but in a different way, as I don't regard it as eternal (but it may feel like it is!).
Anyway, one way or another, everyone will suffer the consecuences of bad acts in this very same life, so you will experience what hell is even on earth, so better to be kind, compassionate and a good person in general.

sigma wrote:I totally agree.
Moreover, a prayer is not the solution to the problems, I know in my experience, that prayer will not save a loved one from a terrible disease.
Selfless help other people is an investment in your health and the health of others. Prayer is a relief and not a cure, and certainly not a preventive measure against the demons.

I also agree. Prayers or something similar (like in Buddhism, reciting phrases to raise confidence and faith) are helpful mental tools, and can help in cleanising the mind and improving your body state, but they won't make a miracle by themselves.

I do believe in miracles, but I think that they happen not exactly by an external personal force (although I'm not discarding that God or something like that may exist), but by the force of our actions and our way of living. i.e. if you follow a sane life, without vices and without stress, your immune system will get better and may even help to cure a disease that was considered to be deadly. Also, collective mind-work (like people supporting you, either with prayers, advice or whatever) can help into the development (or at least in increasing the probabilites) of certain miracles, but it mostly depends on the affected person.

In addition, if you can find this series in English translation, this film has a lot of sense on this subject.

Pumo, in short, among other things, the meaning of the film in the confrontation of two clever counterintelligence. A German officer mortally ill, but he must fulfill his mission against the Russians, so he lives even when doctors are powerless to help him.
I'm sure this film will be incorrectly translated into English, nevertheless, I recommend you to watch this film.

I was brought up Catholic but there are a few major parts of that belief system that I found impossible to reconcile with the image of God that they give or with an understanding of who people are and what they do. I concluded that there is something there, but that it's not my place to know or to say what it is or isn't.

I believe in being true to myself and my ideals, and living the best life I can without worrying about what might come after.

Alter-Fox wrote:... I believe in being true to myself and my ideals, and living the best life I can without worrying about what might come after.

Pretty good, we should always live in the present moment without worrying too much about the past or the future.