DescentBB

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/orlando ... -1.3631994

could there possibly be a better time to have the same conversation about organized religion, and what responsibility it bears for the pain and misery and death inflicted on gays for so many centuries in the name of god?

That didn't seem to bother these 2 assholes, or stop them from preaching their hate to their "followers". If you listen to what they said, they almost sound like they're applauding Islam for having the same principles and the cajones to carry it out, kill all those pedophile homos. We don't have a Muslim problem, we have a religion problem. I say we ship these 2 morons and their followers over to Syria and let them join their brothers in arms. Then send in the armed drones to clean it all up.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/tem ... eo-8372346

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressiv ... -massacre/

Pastor Jimenez wrote:People say, like: ‘Well, aren’t you sad that 50 sodomites died?’

Here’s the problem with that. It’s like the equivalent of asking me — what if you asked me: ​’Hey, are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?’

Um, no, I think that’s great. I think that helps society. You know, I think Orlando, Florida, is a little safer tonight.

...The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die. The tragedy is — I’m kind of upset that he didn’t finish the job!

…People sometimes will hear, you know, someone like me… other pastors like me, and say, ‘You guys are advocating violence!’ We’re not advocating violence! We’re not saying we should go do this! But we’re just saying this: If we lived in a righteous nation with a righteous government, then the government should be taking them… I wish the government would round them all up, put them up against a firing wall, put a firing squad in front of them, and blow their brains out.

If we lived in a righteous government that loved God, and loved children, and wanted to protect them, that’s what we’d do.

And yet the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin leading to death, so being anti-homosexuality really still is about religious freedom.

The other problem I see is the fact that every time this happens, there's always one camp that goes straight to dehumanizing those involved, with their "they deserved it!" mentality.

History is rife with those examples, yet no one seems to take heed.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:And yet the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin leading to death, so being anti-homosexuality really still is about religious freedom.

Maybe the Bible is wrong. Wait, there's no maybe about it, the Bible is wrong.

This is the reason for religious freedom, Flatlander. I am free to follow my convictions, and you yours. My conviction is that the whole of the Bible is God's inspired, and preserved word, showing us God's perspective on the way we should live our lives--showing us how to do what's right.

To sum up what the Bible says about homosexuality... In the Old Testament they were killed in order to remove their influence from society. As of the New Testament they are under judgement, and are hell-bound, but can be delivered and saved. The New Testament actually says that there are people who have become homosexuals or lesbians as judgement for not acknowledging God as God.

So do I believe the Bible that homosexuality is a terrible thing, for them and to us--an abomination to God, or do I believe homosexuals? I believe the Bible.

tunnelcat wrote:That didn't seem to bother these 2 assholes, or stop them from preaching their hate to their "followers". If you listen to what they said, they almost sound like they're applauding Islam for having the same principles and the cajones to carry it out, kill all those pedophile homos. We don't have a Muslim problem, we have a religion problem. I say we ship these 2 morons and their followers over to Syria and let them join their brothers in arms. Then send in the armed drones to clean it all up.

http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/tem ... eo-8372346

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressiv ... -massacre/

Pastor Jimenez wrote:People say, like: ‘Well, aren’t you sad that 50 sodomites died?’

Here’s the problem with that. It’s like the equivalent of asking me — what if you asked me: ​’Hey, are you sad that 50 pedophiles were killed today?’

Um, no, I think that’s great. I think that helps society. You know, I think Orlando, Florida, is a little safer tonight.

...The tragedy is that more of them didn’t die. The tragedy is — I’m kind of upset that he didn’t finish the job!

…People sometimes will hear, you know, someone like me… other pastors like me, and say, ‘You guys are advocating violence!’ We’re not advocating violence! We’re not saying we should go do this! But we’re just saying this: If we lived in a righteous nation with a righteous government, then the government should be taking them… I wish the government would round them all up, put them up against a firing wall, put a firing squad in front of them, and blow their brains out.

If we lived in a righteous government that loved God, and loved children, and wanted to protect them, that’s what we’d do.

perfect example right there, TC. That's a guy who thinks his religion has zero responsibility for what happened.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:And yet the Bible condemns homosexuality as a sin leading to death, so being anti-homosexuality really still is about religious freedom.

I don't believe in the Bible. A LOT of people in the U.S. don't believe in the Bible. It's not the law of our land either, or else we'd all be living under a Christian Theocracy and be required to follow religious laws similar to what people have to live with under Sharia Law in many Muslim countries. Would you as a Christian want to live under Muslim Law? I know a couple of people here who freak out at the very thought of Sharia Law coming here and I can guarantee you a lot of LGBT people would take extreme exception of having to be subject to ancient and cruel Christian Laws. So I ask you, why should people be forced to follow religious beliefs that are not their own? Why should people be put to death for something they don't believe in and which is not the law of the land? Besides, the Book of Leviticus is full of the most crazy BS ever put on stone, or paper as it may be in modern times. If you applied any of those laws to modern humans, we'd ALL have to be put to death for one of those crazy reasons or another.

http://insanityverses.blogspot.com/2009 ... ticus.html

I am in awe of the way you dispatched each straw-man there more quickly than the last, TC. What does any of that have to do with the quote?

Sergeant Thorne wrote:What does any of that have to do with the quote?

Are you going to answer her question or not? Why should non-believers in a secular democracy be oppressed by one group's religious freedom?

No. Seems you two have an axe to grind that has nothing to do with me or my statements in this topic. ...You figure it out.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:No.

It's not that you won't answer the question, you can't.

vision wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:What does any of that have to do with the quote?

Are you going to answer her question or not? Why should non-believers in a secular democracy be oppressed by one group's religious freedom?

Loaded questions require no answer.

Is this 2016 or is this 2AD????

Seriously, everyone should just be happy to be alive and who gives a rats ass what people prefer to do in the privacy of their own home? Religion has caused more issues than anything else in this world and people still follow it blindly. IMHO, Gods were invented in a time where cavemen didn't know any better and it continued and a bunch of people decided to write a book about it.

Science has proven that there were no witches, earthquakes cause the tremors, volcanoes weren't the Gods being mad etc etc etc.

We live in a open world where people have the RIGHT to choose how they want to live when it comes to who they love.

If you believe in God and what the bible says, fine, but keep it to yourself and don't treat them like they are a plague because they are not.

Why is it that the bible says homosexuality is bad yet so many catholic priest are guilty of sexual abuse of male children? What does that say about your God picking people to spread his word?

/End rant.

CDN_Merlin wrote:Is this 2016 or is this 2AD????

Seriously, everyone should just be happy to be alive and who gives a rats ass what people prefer to do in the privacy of their own home? Religion has caused more issues than anything else in this world and people still follow it blindly. IMHO, Gods were invented in a time where cavemen didn't know any better and it continued and a bunch of people decided to write a book about it.

Science has proven that there were no witches, earthquakes cause the tremors, volcanoes weren't the Gods being mad etc etc etc.

We live in a open world where people have the RIGHT to choose how they want to live when it comes to who they love.

If you believe in God and what the bible says, fine, but keep it to yourself and don't treat them like they are a plague because they are not.

Why is it that the bible says homosexuality is bad yet so many catholic priest are guilty of sexual abuse of male children? What does that say about your God picking people to spread his word?

/End rant.

very on-point.

The irony here is people are using the old testament passage condemning homosexuality, when it has been rendered moot by the ultimate sacrifice. So when people who quote the old testament, they have nothing to stand on when they try to justify violence towards gay people.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I am in awe of the way you dispatched each straw-man there more quickly than the last, TC. What does any of that have to do with the quote?

From your statements, you firmly believe that homosexuality is a punishable abomination against God, as stated in only 2 places in the Bible, which you also believe is a factual tome that should never be questioned. It also must follow that if homosexuals can't or won't change what you personally believe is their lifestyle choice, that they should face the punishment the Bible requires. Does that about sum up your beliefs?

So if you fervently believe that, would you then advocate the death of homosexuals or other LGBT people as the Bible states? Remember, you are pushing for the right to exercise your religious freedom and since many Chrisitans also want their religious freedom to be respected by other non-religious people in our society, would you then call for the death of all homosexuals if they don't repent and change their lifestyle? Remember, you and other Christians want the religious freedom to prosecute the laws of the Bible to the letter, even to non-believers.

tunnelcat wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I am in awe of the way you dispatched each straw-man there more quickly than the last, TC. What does any of that have to do with the quote?

From your statements, you firmly believe that homosexuality is a punishable abomination against God, as stated in only 2 places in the Bible, which you also believe is a factual tome that should never be questioned. It also must follow that if homosexuals can't or won't change what you personally believe is their lifestyle choice, that they should face the punishment the Bible requires. Does that about sum up your beliefs?

So if you fervently believe that, would you then advocate the death of homosexuals or other LGBT people as the Bible states? Remember, you are pushing for the right to exercise your religious freedom and since many Chrisitans also want their religious freedom to be respected by other non-religious people in our society, would you then call for the death of all homosexuals if they don't repent and change their lifestyle? Remember, you and other Christians want the religious freedom to prosecute the laws of the Bible to the letter, even to non-believers.

"should never be questioned?" A person that never questions something they don't understand is being dishonest. That really is the implication you're making at this point, and it's false. If a person professes a belief that the Bible is the inspired word of God, as it says it is, but they feel a freedom to dispense with parts that they don't agree with, then they have a problem. The Bible is literally an all or nothing book, but this idea that questioning is a sin or taboo does not hail from the Bible. Jesus specifically did things to give people proof as to who he was--that's how the God of the Bible works.

If they don't repent and change their lifestyle when?

This isn't the land of Israel under Old Testament law.

You seem to be conflating Christianity with Islam, and it's total confusion.

Matthew 12 wrote:20 A bruised reed shall He not break, and smoking flax shall He not quench till He send forth judgment unto victory;

(speaking of Jesus)

Luke 9 wrote:52 and He sent messengers before His face. And they went and entered into a village of the Samaritans to make ready for Him.

53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set as though He would go to Jerusalem.

54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, wilt Thou that we command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, even as Elijah did?”

55 But He turned and rebuked them and said, “Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

56 For the Son of Man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.” And they went to another village.

John 18 wrote:36 Jesus answered, “My Kingdom is not of this world. If My Kingdom were of this world, then would My servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews. But now is My Kingdom not from hence.”

Sergeant Thorne wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:

Sergeant Thorne wrote:I am in awe of the way you dispatched each straw-man there more quickly than the last, TC. What does any of that have to do with the quote?

From your statements, you firmly believe that homosexuality is a punishable abomination against God, as stated in only 2 places in the Bible, which you also believe is a factual tome that should never be questioned. It also must follow that if homosexuals can't or won't change what you personally believe is their lifestyle choice, that they should face the punishment the Bible requires. Does that about sum up your beliefs?

So if you fervently believe that, would you then advocate the death of homosexuals or other LGBT people as the Bible states? Remember, you are pushing for the right to exercise your religious freedom and since many Chrisitans also want their religious freedom to be respected by other non-religious people in our society, would you then call for the death of all homosexuals if they don't repent and change their lifestyle? Remember, you and other Christians want the religious freedom to prosecute the laws of the Bible to the letter, even to non-believers.

"should never be questioned?" A person that never questions something they don't understand is being dishonest. That really is the implication you're making at this point, and it's false. If a person professes a belief that the Bible is the inspired word of God, as it says it is, but they feel a freedom to dispense with parts that they don't agree with, then they have a problem. The Bible is literally an all or nothing book, but this idea that questioning is a sin or taboo does not hail from the Bible. Jesus specifically did things to give people proof as to who he was--that's how the God of the Bible works.

If they don't repent and change their lifestyle when?

This isn't the land of Israel under Old Testament law.

You seem to be conflating Christianity with Islam, and it's total confusion.

Yet, there are still some Christians in this country who want the Old Testament doctrine as the law of the land. You say you want your religious freedom. How much of that freedom do you want to take at the expense of the freedoms of others you perceive as evil? From what I'm hearing, most American Christians want to be able to have their cake and eat it too, even if that means negatively impacting the lives those they deem inferior or as abominations to their faith. But exercising your freedoms will most certainly impact the freedoms of those who are not Christians. Who loses in the end if no consensus or middle road can be reached?

And you've never answered my earlier questions ST. Do you personally believe homosexuals should be put to death? They certainly aren't going to change their behavior or go away and since you see them as an abomination and as second class citizens, in order to not violate your right to exercise your religious freedom to follow what the Bible says, someone is going to have to give up something, either their freedoms or ultimately, their lives.