DescentBB

callmeslick wrote:links, and do you really want to compete with the list of kids using mommy's gun to kill a sibling(which happened just this weekend in New Jersey)?Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the tradeoff you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

tunnelcat wrote:Slick, the world has become a dangerous place. The cops are spread thin and there are too many people around now who want to take your things and who will not hesitate to attack you and/or take your life in order to take what they want.

If a stranger was in my house and he came at me and I was armed, I'd shoot the bastard, no questions asked. If he ran away, that's a whole different matter. You don't shoot a fleeing person in the back.

tunnelcat wrote:Slick, the world has become a dangerous place.

callmeslick wrote:links, and do you really want to compete with the list of kids using mommy's gun to kill a sibling(which happened just this weekend in New Jersey)?Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the tradeoff you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the trade off you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

John R. Lott, Jr.: States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. Thirty-one states now have such laws—called “shall-issue” laws. These laws allow adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness.

For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

The analysis is based on data for all 3,054 counties in the United States during 18 years from 1977 to 1994.

Question: Your argument about criminals and deterrence doesn’t tell the whole story. Don’t statistics show that most people are killed by someone they know?

Lott: You are referring to the often-cited statistic that 58 percent of murder victims are killed by either relatives or acquaintances. However, what most people don’t understand is that this “acquaintance murder” number also includes gang members killing other gang members, drug buyers killing drug pushers, cabdrivers killed by customers they picked up for the first time, prostitutes and their clients, and so on. “Acquaintance” covers a wide range of relationships. The vast majority of murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens. Ninety percent of adult murderers have had criminal records as adults.

woodchip wrote:

callmeslick wrote:links, and do you really want to compete with the list of kids using mommy's gun to kill a sibling(which happened just this weekend in New Jersey)?Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the tradeoff you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

I posted the video as a link. Now lets look at your confused statement:

Some child saved, three others shot.....that's the trade off you are so proud of. Attaboy, what an American hero you are.

Here's the real trade off. In the one case a criminal bent on harming her children was killed by the mother. If she didn't have a gun and she was killed and her daughter sexually abused...then killed, you would of been deliriously happy because no guns were involved? Yes stupid accidents will happen just like children dying from getting into the medicine cabinet and eating the brightly colored pills thinking they were candy.

Now lets look at facts. From Prof Lott and his book "More guns, less crime":

John R. Lott, Jr.: States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes. Thirty-one states now have such laws—called “shall-issue” laws. These laws allow adults the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal record or a history of significant mental illness.

For each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

The analysis is based on data for all 3,054 counties in the United States during 18 years from 1977 to 1994.

Question: Your argument about criminals and deterrence doesn’t tell the whole story. Don’t statistics show that most people are killed by someone they know?

Lott: You are referring to the often-cited statistic that 58 percent of murder victims are killed by either relatives or acquaintances. However, what most people don’t understand is that this “acquaintance murder” number also includes gang members killing other gang members, drug buyers killing drug pushers, cabdrivers killed by customers they picked up for the first time, prostitutes and their clients, and so on. “Acquaintance” covers a wide range of relationships. The vast majority of murders are not committed by previously law-abiding citizens. Ninety percent of adult murderers have had criminal records as adults.

http://www.press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

callmeslick wrote:

tunnelcat wrote:Slick, the world has become a dangerous place. The cops are spread thin and there are too many people around now who want to take your things and who will not hesitate to attack you and/or take your life in order to take what they want.

and yet, in terms of numeric instances and per capita rates, all measures for violent crime are down, nationwide and have been going down for over a decade and a half. So, just maybe it's your perception which has been thrown off? Or, have you been repeatedly threatened or harmed, personally, leading to perfectly valid reasons to feel a threat?

If a stranger was in my house and he came at me and I was armed, I'd shoot the bastard, no questions asked. If he ran away, that's a whole different matter. You don't shoot a fleeing person in the back.

I read this part above three times, and for the life of me, all that entered my head was Little Feat's 'Sailing Shoes': "If you if away all your life....."

vision wrote:It's actually safer than any other time in history, worldwide.