Embracing sharia in the name of identity politics? Yep, that's the left today.
Embracing fascistic violence and oppression against dissent? Yes, that's the left today.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 8:15 pm
by Top Gun
TB, you wouldn't be able to properly define "the left" if someone chucked a turn signal at your head.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:18 pm
by callmeslick
seriously. Nothing like a person who's demonstrated, for years, that they haven't the first clue what 'the left' even IS, let alone thinks, making these sorts of declarations. Are you TRYING to be amusing, NS?
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:27 am
by woodchip
Pray tell slick, what is the left?
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:37 pm
by callmeslick
the FAR left, the left of center, the moderates? Which one, because to you and NS, we're ALL 'leftists'.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:16 pm
by Tunnelcat
Actually, even the old Republicans of the 1960's are now considered leftists by modern conservatives. If Republicans don't watch out, they'll eventually come around the political circle and enter the domain of leftist anarchists. I mean, conservatives of today do currently advocate an every man for himself world without that pesky government interference in their lives don't they?
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 2:36 pm
by Spidey
You have the right all figured out, but the “left” remains a mystery, that nobody can solve.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:39 pm
by Tunnelcat
OK Spidey, the definition below about sums up the differences between conservative and liberal. Plus, I dare you to find a modern conservative who believes that the typical conservative that hailed from the 1960's is an actual conservative. Back then, they were more fiscally conservative and were far more willing to work with the other party to get things done.
Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. They believe in equality over the freedom to fail.
Right wing beliefs value tradition, they are about equity, survival of the fittest, and they believe in economic freedom. They typically believe that business shouldn’t be regulated, and that we should all look after ourselves. Right wing people tend believe they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s education or health service. They believe in freedom to succeed over equality.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:00 pm
by Spidey
NO, conservatives believe that business shouldn’t be “OVER” regulated, that’s the same kind of bull★■◆● as saying conservatives are anti immigration, when in fact we are against “ILLEGAL” immigration.
It’s all bull★■◆●…
My conservative parents taught me the value of charity, and caring for others, not leaving the job to the government.
If you want to post some kind of right wing "beliefs"…at least try to avoid posting bull★■◆●.
Did I say bull★■◆● enough…
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:11 pm
by Tunnelcat
My definition was just a generalized UK example Spidey since you wanted a description of the left, so don't get your drawers in a bunch. But since you brought it up, tell me how much regulation is over regulation? Who makes that judgment call? It's obviously a moving line depending on which party is in power. Besides, there's been a shift since 2011 in how much is too much for most conservatives, too much being almost ANY regulations at all. Granted, you're coming from a small business position, so I'd like to hear what you think is too much for that sector. Trump and the GOP have been going on a deregulation spree ever since they got into office, some of those regulations concern removing protections for the environment. What's next, food production deregulation?
The shift since March 2011 has come mostly among Republicans, widening the gap between the parties on this issue. About three-quarters (76%) of Republicans now say government regulation of business does more harm than good, an increase of 12 points from last year.
Fully 83% of conservative Republicans say regulation is harmful, up from 67% last year. A majority of moderate and liberal Republicans (59%) continue to say that government regulation of business usually does more harm than good, little changed from March 2011.
There also has been virtually no change among Democrats or independents on general views of regulation. A majority of Democrats (57%) think government regulation of business is necessary to protect the public interest. Independents continue to be divided; 44% say regulating business is necessary to protect the public while 49% believe it usually does more harm than good.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:39 pm
by Spidey
There is no one answer to that question, but in general I believe you must find the proper balance between protecting the workers, consumers and the public with allowing the business to still make some money, and having some operating flexibility.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:07 pm
by Ferno
Tunnelcat wrote:OK Spidey, the definition below about sums up the differences between conservative and liberal. Plus, I dare you to find a modern conservative who believes that the typical conservative that hailed from the 1960's is an actual conservative. Back then, they were more fiscally conservative and were far more willing to work with the other party to get things done.
Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. They believe in equality over the freedom to fail.
Right wing beliefs value tradition, they are about equity, survival of the fittest, and they believe in economic freedom. They typically believe that business shouldn’t be regulated, and that we should all look after ourselves. Right wing people tend believe they shouldn’t have to pay for someone else’s education or health service. They believe in freedom to succeed over equality.
Here's what's going to twerk your mind: I think both values can be harmonious with each other. We can value the past to provide us guidance for the future, if only we actually cement the lessons learned. We can be economically free by pulling each other along. We can improvise yet we can use parts of what's established. Like a national health service and single-payer system can make the economy stronger by keeping more people healthier so they can keep doing their jobs. Even equity and equality can be one and the same, since both rely on the same thing at their core -- fairness.
Kind of goes with the territory of being Liberservative.
Re: How the left dies...
Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 10:33 pm
by Tunnelcat
Spidey wrote:There is no one answer to that question, but in general I believe you must find the proper balance between protecting the workers, consumers and the public with allowing the business to still make some money, and having some operating flexibility.
You know, that makes perfect sense. Even a reasonable lefty would agree with that ideal. Now please go tell that little tidbit of wisdom to our exaulted representatives in Washington who can't seem to work together if their lives depended on it or at least go one day without vilifying each other's positions and ideas.
