DescentBB

Yes, let's not build a wall.



Iraq? Syria? Yemen? Libya?

Nope. This is just a stone's throw away from our border.

Widdle TB scared of the big bad migrant workers?

Top Gun wrote:Widdle TB scared of the big bad migrant workers?

We have plenty of "migrant workers" that're armed with guns. They're called "MS-13" or any number of other names.

I'm far more worried about the millions of armed dumbass rednecks myself.

Top Gun wrote:I'm far more worried about the millions of armed dumbass rednecks myself.

How many rednecks were in the video above?

People get shot in my area every couple of weeks…and I’m supposed to worry about rednecks.

or immigrants?

Immigrants...no...drug gangs...yes.

But, doesn't Trump always lump immigrants and drug gangs together (and rapists) as one and the same?

Tunnelcat wrote:But, doesn't Trump always lump immigrants and drug gangs together (and rapists) as one and the same?

I wonder how many of those ILLEGAL "immigrants" are breaking the law... Oh wait, that would be 100%.

I drove 5 mph over the speed limit yesterday TB. Clearly I should be put in handcuffs and violently tossed into the back of a van too.

Top Gun wrote:I drove 5 mph over the speed limit yesterday TB. Clearly I should be put in handcuffs and violently tossed into the back of a van too.

It's nice to see how you view our nation's sovereignty and rule of law so trivially.

This whole topic is xenophobia built on the false assumption that building a wall will stop drug violence. If anything, a wall will only make it worse.

A wall will have the effect of stopping most of the good immigrants who just want a better life, while making the criminals and drug smugglers that much more determined and violent.

Nightshade wrote:

Tunnelcat wrote:But, doesn't Trump always lump immigrants and drug gangs together (and rapists) as one and the same?

I wonder how many of those ILLEGAL "immigrants" are breaking the law... Oh wait, that would be 100%.

Only if you're counting the fact that they're in this country "illegally", yeah. I was referring to immigrants committing other crimes once they're here, which doesn't sit anywhere near 100%. That was what Trump was alluding to during one of his campaign boner rallies when he stated that Mexico wasn't sending us their best. Most of these illegals are hard working people and most Americans don't seem to realize or appreciate that at all. Of course, Americans still want their cheap farm produce but seem unwilling to stoop to picking that produce for the dirt wages most farmers pay. They also want their cheap hotel rooms, yet don't want to work for the low wages these immigrants are paid to clean the rooms. Americans also seem too squeamish to slaughter and cut up chickens by the thousands for their fast food restaurants and stores either. Agribusiness and the hotel and food service industries are the ones mostly at fault for the massive illegal immigrant crisis we STILL have today. Immigrants are just here to fill a job vacuum. If there were no jobs, they wouldn't have a reason to come here.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fac ... and-crime/

Nightshade wrote: It's nice to see how you view our nation's sovereignty and rule of law so trivially.

Laws that are fundamentally discriminatory and unjust should be fought whenever and wherever they appear. Some amazing people 60 or so years ago did that very well.

Top Gun wrote: Laws that are fundamentally discriminatory and unjust should be fought whenever and wherever they appear. Some amazing people 60 or so years ago did that very well.

Having national defensible borders and sovereignty over one nation's own territory is discriminatory and unjust? What kind of wacko would think this?

Illegally cross into Mexico and see how 'discriminatory' and 'unjustly' the government treats you down there when you break their laws.

Nightshade wrote:

Top Gun wrote: Laws that are fundamentally discriminatory and unjust should be fought whenever and wherever they appear. Some amazing people 60 or so years ago did that very well.

Having national defensible borders and sovereignty over one nation's own territory is discriminatory and unjust? What kind of wacko would think this?

Illegally cross into Mexico and see how 'discriminatory' and 'unjustly' the government treats you down there when you break their laws.

oops!

callmeslick wrote:

Nightshade wrote:
Having national defensible borders and sovereignty over one nation's own territory is discriminatory and unjust? What kind of wacko would think this?

Illegally cross into Mexico and see how 'discriminatory' and 'unjustly' the government treats you down there when you break their laws.

oops!

Oops what? That if you break Mexican law, they won't enforce them and make you face the penalties enumerated in their law?

Oops, perhaps because of these facts about Americans who illegally immigrate INTO Mexico.

https://www.pri.org/stories/2010-09-27/ ... -americans

Nightshade wrote: Having national defensible borders and sovereignty over one nation's own territory is discriminatory and unjust? What kind of wacko would think this?

Hideously-outdated immigration policies that result in cumbersome years-long mazes towards citizenship and ICE brownshirts who round up innocent community members are unjust, yes.

If you really want to crack down on illegal immigration, maybe go after the American businesses that hire them, instead of building this boondoggle of a "wall".

Flatlander wrote:If you really want to crack down on illegal immigration, maybe go after the American businesses that hire them, instead of building this boondoggle of a "wall".

as a Democrat, I'm here to tell you that we put that into the party platform over 15 years ago. GOP has blocked it on at least 8 instances I know of.

Sure…

Create a situation where super cheap labor is needed (demand for cheap produce and such)

Create a social system that dissuades Americans from taking those jobs.

Then persecute business or immigrants.

Uh huh…yup

I guess we have a chicken and egg thing going on here. Did stagnant or even lower-than-inflation wages result in Americans being required to shop for the cheap stuff because they couldn't afford the quality stuff, or was it because cheap stuff was foisted on everyone by producers and corporations looking for ways to cut corners by trimming manufacturing costs and quality, all in search of bigger profits? One can find evidence of both cases being true.

Nightshade wrote:

Top Gun wrote: Laws that are fundamentally discriminatory and unjust should be fought whenever and wherever they appear. Some amazing people 60 or so years ago did that very well.

Having national defensible borders and sovereignty over one nation's own territory is discriminatory and unjust? What kind of wacko would think this?

Illegally cross into Mexico and see how 'discriminatory' and 'unjustly' the government treats you down there when you break their laws.

And that's so not what he said. This has to be one of the biggest strawmans i've seen yet.

He's talking about laws that target certain groups, like religious groups, ethnic groups, racial groups, or maybe non-religious groups... stuff like that. He never even alluded to, implied, suggested, insinuated or otherwise even hinted at border protection. Any law that be passed targeting certain groups, can be passed to target YOU.

Damn son, get it together.

we put that into the party platform over 15 years ago. GOP has blocked it on at least 8 instances I know of.

And that was done because those businesses wanted to save on labour costs. So the only people 'stealing your jobs' are the people who are hiring immigrants when there are better qualified to do the job. So when you look at the GOP being pro-business, you can look at them being pro-illegal immigration - so of course they would block it.