The Russia collusion...

[Nightshade]

...with Obama?

Obama’s first year was a golden period for Russia because he didn’t believe in national interests. Trump does. The left inevitably accuses the right of its own sins. Trump didn’t collude with Russia. Obama did.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-01- ... -collusion

[Tunnelcat]

Obama's not currently president last I checked. Besides, Putin hated Obama and I think the feelings were mutual. Since you seem so fond of going after retired political figures or pointing out what they did was worse, you're starting to sound like someone used to living in a Banana Republic.

https://www.npr.org/2013/09/12/22177401 ... -get-along

But Trump and a lot of the people around him, especially a couple of former confidants and advisors, personally reek of deep involvement with the Russians in some form or fashion, and most of it is NOT in America's best interests. Manafort was in it just for his own monetary gain because he loved to live the expensive high life and was dead broke when he joined up with Trump, even working for free, probably hoping for some sort of lucrative foreign deal making once Trump was president. Carter Page was actually involved in a Russian spy recruitment attempt. In fact, he's one of the reasons Trump got on the FBI's radar in the first place. Thankfully, Page is a bumbling idiot and not a Russian spy currently sitting in the White House.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/04/15/politics ... index.html

But most importantly, Trump is best pals with Putin, a vile authoritarian autocrat, a man who murders his political opponents, rigs his elections and tightly controls the media in order to keep his power. Putin has Trump on his ring finger.Trump is even learning from Putin's methods, especially with his attacks on our media, his calls for the investigations of his past political opponents, his lack of loyalty to his own people and his refusals to actually tackle the Russian hacking issue head on. Why should he, it got him in office. In fact, Trump seems to be chummy with a LOT of dictatorial autocrats and tinpot despots and loves to hold them in high regard. How's that good for our country and our Democracy when Trump worships dictators and their methods of running their states? What's worse is that he seems to do it just for money. How patriotic and love of country is that? Here's a case of strange bedfellows I'd never heard of before.

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opini ... 56341.html

[Top Gun]

TB posting another pathetic attempt at deflection from a ★■◆● source. Must be Tuesday.

[callmeslick]

fascists deflect. It's what they do.

[Tunnelcat]

Anything to deflect from the massive problems their own guy is currently wallowing in, including this epic miscarriage of Democracy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the ... 29570ee710

Trump and Putin sitting in a tree.
K.I.S.S.I.N.G.
First comes love,
then comes marriage,
then comes little Trumptin
in a baby carriage.

[woodchip]

TB posting another pathetic attempt at deflection from a ★■◆● source. Must be Tuesday.

And TC sources are not ★■◆● sources?

[Top Gun]

No, they have actual journalists working for them, as opposed to raving lunatics and/or Cheeto cock-suckers.

[Tunnelcat]

TB posting another pathetic attempt at deflection from a ★■◆● source. Must be Tuesday.

And TC sources are not ★■◆● sources?

You sure as heck ain't going to see any of it sitting inside the right wing news bubble-sphere, and I've thoroughly looked. So keep those blinders on while your traitor of a president gives this country away to the wealthy and the Russians. And while I'm at it, what would you be saying if all this was coming out if Hillary was president instead? The screams of impeachment would be deafening.

More of that Russia love, although you won't believe it unless either Fox News or Redstate publishes it.

http://time.com/5126082/russian-spy-don ... elligence/

[woodchip]

No, they have actual journalists working for them, as opposed to raving lunatics and/or Cheeto cock-suckers.

And were these self same journalists ★■◆● cock suckers when Obama was in office? Again you must be a sad case in real life based on the hate and type of language you use here. Hopefully you don't own any firearms.

[woodchip]

TB posting another pathetic attempt at deflection from a ★■◆● source. Must be Tuesday.

And TC sources are not ★■◆● sources?

You sure as heck ain't going to see any of it sitting inside the right wing news bubble-sphere, and I've thoroughly looked. So keep those blinders on while your traitor of a president gives this country away to the wealthy and the Russians. And while I'm at it, what would you be saying if all this was coming out if Hillary was president instead? The screams of impeachment would be deafening.

More of that Russia love, although you won't believe it unless either Fox News or Redstate publishes it.

http://time.com/5126082/russian-spy-don ... elligence/

And how much opposition to Obama did you see by your news outlets when he was in office? As far as I could see they were a giant kiss ass machine.

[Top Gun]

No, they have actual journalists working for them, as opposed to raving lunatics and/or Cheeto cock-suckers.

And were these self same journalists ★■◆● cock suckers when Obama was in office? Again you must be a sad case in real life based on the hate and type of language you use here. Hopefully you don't own any firearms.

Racist white trash says what?

And no, I don't, because I'm quite satisfied with my dick size.

[vision]

Woody is super triggered this week. I haven't been following the news. What got his panties in a bunch?

[Tunnelcat]

And were these self same journalists ★■◆● cock suckers when Obama was in office? Again you must be a sad case in real life based on the hate and type of language you use here. Hopefully you don't own any firearms.

And I have to comment woody, do you think you're shining example of literacy from what you just spouted above? You're undercutting your own rant.

TB posting another pathetic attempt at deflection from a ★■◆● source. Must be Tuesday.

And TC sources are not ★■◆● sources?

You sure as heck ain't going to see any of it sitting inside the right wing news bubble-sphere, and I've thoroughly looked. So keep those blinders on while your traitor of a president gives this country away to the wealthy and the Russians. And while I'm at it, what would you be saying if all this was coming out if Hillary was president instead? The screams of impeachment would be deafening.

More of that Russia love, although you won't believe it unless either Fox News or Redstate publishes it.

http://time.com/5126082/russian-spy-don ... elligence/

And how much opposition to Obama did you see by your news outlets when he was in office? As far as I could see they were a giant kiss ass machine.

There's this example woody. Obama refusing to go militarily attack Russia after their takeover of Crimea. Plus, don't forget your history, WAPO was right about Nixon. They were called a bunch of lefty propagandists until Nixon's little White House tapes finally came out and proved them right, that Nixon WAS doing illegal things.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics ... a5569c1114

And a rebuttal.

http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/2 ... ing-russia

Then there was a bunch of negative press they did about Bernie Sanders. I guess they didn't like him either.

https://fair.org/home/washington-post-r ... -16-hours/

[Tunnelcat]

Goebbels lives again in two new forms now. First and foremost, there's Sean Hannity. But now we have Devin Nunes running his own "media outlet". Since Trump doesn't like the unflattering mainstream press coverage, he gets around that by having his suckups to create some "not fake" news coverage for him. I can't wait for the 2018 midterms to see what the fallout from all this will be.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/ ... ite-402097

[callmeslick]

[Burlyman]

Should we really trust the FBI to investigate anything? The United States is waging psychological warfare on its own citizens.

[vision]

Should we really trust the FBI to investigate anything?

Come up with a better suggestion.

[callmeslick]

Should we really trust the FBI to investigate anything? The United States is waging psychological warfare on its own citizens.

bull★■◆●, and likely based on being fed a diet of fascist propaganda. There is no such thng. Care to even TRY to elaborate?

[Tunnelcat]

Wow, that Deep State crap that's being promulgated on the right is really polluting the minds of their base, isn't it? Scary. Simple minds, so easy to mold and they keep using it over and over again hoping the next time it will miraculously stick. Hannity is spewing that junk so much I can't stand to watch his spiel without throwing something at the TV. Plus he loves to end his little propaganda show with the phrase "Protect Trump Always" (I think). So let me get this straight. The FBI is a hero when they punish or investigate spies, terrorists, bank robbers and other such criminals. But when they go after a Republican in office doing some bad or illegal things, it's all a Deep State government plot. You know, just like Nixon claimed. The next Republican who opines that liberals or anyone but themselves should just take a little personal responsibility needs to shut the eff up and take some of their own advice.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story ... ade-215274

[Burlyman]

Guys it's not a "right" or a "left" thing. Don't fall for the left-right shell game.

[Tunnelcat]

Guys it's not a "right" or a "left" thing. Don't fall for the left-right shell game.

True.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... 256b10570b

But in this case, Trump's Russia scandal is bleeding out so much evidence that it would be a national crime if the government DIDN'T look into it and perhaps prosecute him, because the man is either being a traitor for the love of money, or else he's being blackmailed into doing Putin's bidding, in which case still makes him a traitor.

[callmeslick]

Guys it's not a "right" or a "left" thing. Don't fall for the left-right shell game.

I wasn't. I was stating that your claim is utterly unsubstantiated bull★■◆●. You have yet, in several days, to back up your claim, so we can just assume you're lying, right?

[Burlyman]

LOL

Anyway... how about we investigate the Department of Justice afterwards? We hire our own group to do the investigation and we do extensive background checks and monitor our investigators.

[callmeslick]

ummm, we have Inspectors General in place to do that. We, as a citizenry, pay them to do so.

[Burlyman]

So you just assume that's good enough?

[Krom]

You don't have to assume they are good enough, you can monitor them from the documentation they are required to maintain through any investigation.

[AlexanderBorisov]

Guys it's not a "right" or a "left" thing. Don't fall for the left-right shell game.

True.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/mon ... 256b10570b

But in this case, Trump's Russia scandal is bleeding out so much evidence that it would be a national crime if the government DIDN'T look into it and perhaps prosecute him, because the man is either being a traitor for the love of money, or else he's being blackmailed into doing Putin's bidding, in which case still makes him a traitor.

I think the discussion needs a few words from the Russian side.
Funny, many Russians believe that Putin is under Trump's control... And this phrase being entirely correct with the reversal of Putin and Trump's names... IMO it does not matter, both are pawns in the game and "traitor for the love of money" apply to both of them. Which does make things better for any of us, unfortunately....

[Tunnelcat]

I think the discussion needs a few words from the Russian side.
Funny, many Russians believe that Putin is under Trump's control... And this phrase being entirely correct with the reversal of Putin and Trump's names... IMO it does not matter, both are pawns in the game and "traitor for the love of money" apply to both of them. Which does make things better for any of us, unfortunately....

WOW! If Russians believe that, they're either stupid or more susceptible to propaganda than the people over here who actually voted for Trump. On any intelligence scale, Trump probably sits closer to the bottom while Putin probably sits higher up, WAY higher up. Trump is a MORON commanding an inflated sense of self-worth with delusions of dictator-hood blessed with a lousy temper and foul mouth. Your statement would probably be an insult to Putin on top of that. Trump is either being played or blackmailed, which may explain why he's STILL refusing to enforce those Russian economic sanctions, which I'm sure is making Putin very happy right now.

[AlexanderBorisov]

In fact, we don't have other candidates for like 15 years... I mean, ones that have a sort of a political program and influence and can collect a reasonable number of votes. So Russians have few choices, actually, so most vote for Putin or just dont' go to elections (like I do). That Putin is slowly ruining our country, starting from education, sports, arts, technology, is obvious to any thinking person in Russia (which are however a very small minority - like in every country I guess). And Putin is elected for 4 consecutive times - which is of course illegal according to our laws - so don't even talk about dictatorship. Being a smart dictator and traitor is not better than being a stupid one... And no, he will not suffer from those sanctions, he will win in either case, I guess. Anyway Russia is economically independent country with huge natural resources, unlike many EU countries. Nobody here takes those sanctions seriously.

[Tunnelcat]

Well, this is probably the reason why Russians don't see other candidates successfully opposing Putin, and I know Russia has had quite a few trying to run in the last decade. However, most of them are dead, and not due to a natural kind of death either. I'm sure that detail deters a lot of viable and more progressive or freedom-minded candidates from even trying to run against Putin. It's sad really. The Russian people are a great people. They deserve leaders who will work for the people, not the corrupt politicians, Oligarchs or Secret Police. Like in Russia with Putin and in the U.S. with Trump, it's the actions of the leaders that rot things from within.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... ious-ways/

Russia also ranks low in having a free press. Putin sees to locking that down as well, by killing journalists who report bad news against him, 34 of them since 2000. Going after a free press seems to be something Trump favors as well, so he and Putin have the same dictatorial desires. Although it seems our Trump lovers in this country just ignore the bad Trump news and call it "fake news" or "lefty news".

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/ar ... urnalists/

[Burlyman]

You don't have to assume they are good enough, you can monitor them from the documentation they are required to maintain through any investigation.

That sounds cool and all, but how many people are actually doing this?

[Krom]

Plenty of people are actually doing that, they are generally referred to as "the mainstream press", and they do a pretty good job of letting you know when something goes wrong if you are willing to listen.

[Burlyman]

Oh, no The mainstream press is bought and paid for corrupt scum.

[Tunnelcat]

Oh, no The mainstream press is bought and paid for corrupt scum.

Not all of them. I watched the "mainstream press" put up a supporting front around Bill Clinton like a protective mother, so I know what you're talking about. They almost made me throw stuff at the TV screen they were so kissy kissy towards Old Bill and I knew that the bastard was clearly a lying scumbag. CNN was even called the "Clinton News Network" back then. But you've GOT to admit, there's so much dirt surrounding Trump and his associates and former associates that the information dumps have been regularly overwhelming the national press. As more and more of these "associates" of Trump's get indicted, more and more dirt gets added to pile because they're plea blabbing. Anyone who doesn't see the overflowing dirt has to have cognitive dissonance by now. It just can't be hidden, buried, ignored or spun anymore, except of course conspiracy theorist extraordinaire Sean Hannity, where all hands are on deck in the PTA effort, or Protect Trump Always. As it is, only a fraction of this stuff gets reported by the so-called "mainstream press" every night. I know because I watch it. And from what I watch, they sure do miss a LOT of interesting stuff.

[callmeslick]

Oh, no The mainstream press is bought and paid for corrupt scum.

sorry, but no. There are a hell of a lot of legitimate, diligent journalists, and it really doesn't take some search party to find them. Denigrating the press is the mainstay of totalitarians.

[Burlyman]

Totalitarians control the press, they don't denigrate it.

[callmeslick]

Totalitarians control the press, they don't denigrate it.

bull★■◆●, pure and simple.

[Tunnelcat]

Totalitarians control the press, they don't denigrate it.

Whether you agree or not that the press has a lefty bias, the cold hard truth is that if it weren't for the free press always sniffing around the hallowed halls of power, those in control would have NO ONE to check and scrutinize their power. This country would then look just like Putin's Russia, were political opponents are assassinated, whistle bowers are imprisoned without cause and the common citizen can't even criticize their government or it leaders without nasty repercussions.

[Burlyman]

More like they pretend to check people in power so that people stay lazy.

[callmeslick]

fine if that is what you allow yourself, many of us manage to look deep enough to pursue matters further.