DescentBB

I'm beside myself on this.

I'm not going to make any silly puns, any goofy jokes or any sardonic remarks.

The guy got on national television and threatened to deploy the US military against his own citizens.

What the everloving ★■◆●. I knew it would be bad but not like this. Trying to 'own the libs' is not worth this.

He lost me at law and order President and crimes against God. ROTF

Last time the 1807 Insurrection Act was invoked was during the Rodney King police beatings in 1992. It's also been invoked a total 11 times in it's history, by both Republican and Democratic Presidents. Johnson used it 4 times and George H W Bush used it twice. It's not that strange to see it's use when we get any nationwide mass rioting.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurrection_Act

But I wonder how far will Emperor Trump will go in order to tamp down these riots. Will he actually use the military against American citizens, many who are armed to the teeth thanks to the Second Amendment? I mean it's bad enough he used the police force to clear the streets around that damaged church just so he could march over to have a photo op in front of it's burned out shell holding a Bible. I mean talk about a dichotomy. A serial sex abuser and womanizer holding up a Bible like he's Saint Trump mourning the damage to his church. ★■◆● on a stick.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white- ... t-n1221326

The Right Rev. Mariann Budde, bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, who oversees the church, told The Washington Post that she found out about the visit when it was shown on television and that she was "outraged" by what she saw.

She said she "was not given even a courtesy call that they would be clearing with tear gas so they could use one of our churches as a prop, holding a Bible, one that declares that God is love, and when everything he has said and done is to inflame violence."

Just remember not to vote him back in.

If we can. There's doubt about the election at this point, with the virus running around rampant, those protests that are also now spreading the virus, Trump trying to control the country with our military and the Republicans trying to squelch vote-by-mail and the Post Office that's needed to run it. Just for everyone's information, it was supposedly AG Barr who ordered those protestors tear gassed and cleared so that Trump could saunter over and do his little church photo op, which appears to have blown up in his face anyway. Meaning, Trump told him to do it.

Trump needs to be removed. Now. By whatever means necessary.

Woodchip, you voted for Trump. You helped put this guy into office. You are responsible for this mess. You need to take accountability. Anyone who didn't vote, you also helped put this guy into office. You also need to take accountability. We warned you four years ago. I warned you four years ago.

Not going to change his mind Ferno. Just watch the Tucker Carlson video on my Selective Reporting thread and you'll get a full taste of their mindset. Law and Order, damn the Constitution. In fact, whenever presidents get backed into a corner, even Democratic ones, they seem to resort to authoritarianism and not leadership to solve the problem.

Ferno wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:59 pmWoodchip, you voted for Trump.

He's a lost cause. A mentally dysfunctional, cowardly, boot-licker with no empathy and no reasoning skills. If he shows up it will just be to post incoherent dribble. To me, the saddest part of the last several weeks is the realization I am going to have to fight these people every second of the day for the rest of my life in order to preserve our broken democracy. I'll take our barely functioning government over the pseudo religious authoritarianism this cult is pushing any day.

Do you think we can even repair the damage Trump has done to our government? He's gutted it down to it's very core and thrown out all the methods we used to have to check presidential authority.

Ferno wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:59 pmYou helped put this guy into office. You are responsible for this mess. You need to take accountability. Anyone who didn't vote, you also helped put this guy into office. You also need to take accountability.

I mean technically popular vote for president only makes a difference in 1/3 of states, so only voters in those states helped him into office. [/notreallyimportantrightnow]

Part of the issue with no-votes is that quite a few of them opted not to vote because they didn't want to choose between two candidates they felt were equally terrible. Why would you vote if no matter what you chose you thought you were voting for the death of America? And we all know that voting independent doesn't get results anyway, even though it may leave you with a clean conscience.

As for Lafayette Square, I looked through the video's comments and found this. Kinda curious what it makes you think. Note that I have not verified this information myself.

Daniel Miller wrote:Here it is unbiased.
I used CNN and The Washington post as sources, but I don’t believe their bias influenced this analysis.


For “72 hours straight protests around the 18 acre white house compound had been raging.”

Sunday night a fire was deliberately set in the basement of St. Johns, ‘The Church of the Presidents’

At 4 PM Barr gives an order to ‘clear the area’ of federally owned land of protesters. They were to be moved roughly 3 acres and a perimeter of one block be set up for the president.

This act failed at 4:30pm

This act failed at 5pm

This act failed at 5:30pm

At 6:00 pm Trump begins to give a speech about ongoing protests and policing them.
(It’s unknown if police tried to reinforce the order for protesters to move at 6pm)

At 6:24 PM police give their final order for the protesters to move.

Following this order 3 warnings were given over 10 minutes for protesters to move
.

Legally at this time the protesters were acting under ‘civil disobedience’
claims.

At 6:35 pm authorities then geared up to move the crowd by force; gas canisters, using standard police riot control tactics. (Which means pushing, shoving, and moving people by force out of a given area.)
There are no reports of rubber bullets being fired, but CNN did have an anchor say this happened. But this line was not confirmed by anybody on scene.

Bold kept as accurate to the original comment as possible. Statements originally surrounded by asterisks were changed to bold as this was likely the intent of the commenter.

LightWolf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:53 pmAs for Lafayette Square, I looked through the video's comments and found this. Kinda curious what it makes you think. Note that I have not verified this information myself.

It doesn't make me think antything other than this information is more evidence of an absolute failure of leadership. What you posed is likely propaganda designed to posion the well. It makes people talk about the trees instead of seeing the forest. But it doesn't matter in the larger scheme of things. We are in a crisis right now. People are protesting unjust, unaccountable police action and are being met with proof of injustice and unaccountabiility, over and over and over again.

Lightwolf, it doesn't matter how many times they were 'asked'. Police don't 'ask'. They order. The protestors had every right to be there.

Especially seeing as they were removed for a disgusting photo-op.

There's this weird dissonance going on where people are saying things that everyone saw happen and have proof that they happened, actually didn't. Those things are apparently seen as bad and have to be denied, but they are also things which Trump, only shortly before, said were good and advocated for on a grander scale.

LightWolf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:53 pm Part of the issue with no-votes is that quite a few of them opted not to vote because they didn't want to choose between two candidates they felt were equally terrible. Why would you vote if no matter what you chose you thought you were voting for the death of America? And we all know that voting independent doesn't get results anyway, even though it may leave you with a clean conscience.

Just another bull★■◆● false equivalence. Both candidates were not equally terrible; the difference in qualifications, talent, and experience between them remains incredibly obvious to this day. The choice was between a serious public servant and a serious public menace. Anyone who suggests otherwise or did so at the time was and likely still is drinking the conservative koolaid.

The difference between the 2 main candidates for pres is this. One is a malignant narcissist and dictator wannabe with the intelligence of a kindergartner, the nasty temper of a 2-year old who hasn't gotten his way, someone who prefers to pit people against each other for his personal gain and relishes firing those who refuse to bow down and give him a firm: "Yes sir, may I have another". The other is old, insular, somewhat weak, is forgetful and rambling when he speaks but definitely has the intelligence needed to lead and respects the importance of a maintaining functioning national government. Both men are known creepy sexual perverts, which at this point given the 2 main current choices, is no longer a mitigating factor IMO. So in the grand scheme of things, I'd rather have a forgetful, rambling old man at this point, especially if he picks a young and intelligent preferably woman VP. An African American would be best. And there's another VERY important factor at stake. If Trump gets re-elected, we WILL most certainly get a conservative SCOTUS chosen by the likes of Mitch McConnell within the next 4 years because you know Ginsberg is just hanging on and won't make it another 4 years.

As for Trump's little Church stunt, he's forgotten all about the Constitution in his efforts to firm up his MAGA base with an obviously ridiculous propaganda show-of-force he-man stunt. There was violence and looting previously during the night, hence the church fire, but on that particular day everyone was peacefully protesting, albeit blocking Trump's path to glory by refusing to move. The only good thing out of this debacle is that it royally backfired in his face and made him look petty, divisive and impotent as a leader.

The First Amendment of the Constitution:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

No comment needed. Mattis said it best.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/03/read-ma ... tests.html

God damn! What in the hell wrong with our country's police. This guy is a 75 year old white man who was pushed to the ground and then started bleeding from his ear and they walked by without rendering aid, although they did yell medic. I think it was a National Guardsmen who finally bent down to help who was behind the police. The older man shouldn't have been shoved in the first place. You could even hear his head crack when it hits the pavement.

Ordinarily I would say that is probably too graphic, but we don't live in ordinary times.

Even fox news is having a hard time spinning this one as making America great again.

These videos are showing the lack of training, judgement, and temperament of some of these officers. Can you imagine pushing an elderly person backwards, EVER?! It’s mind boggling to me. These guys either have no training, or even worse, are like amped up and excited to be pushing people around. Whatever the line of questioning is used to determine if you’re unfit for authority they ain’t asking it. You shouldn’t WANT to be in riot gear, it happens, but you shouldn’t be getting psyched up like you’re in the super bowl. It’s the wrong mentality.

When I was a waste case drunk the best bouncers at the bars I went to almost never had to fight. They knew how to handle ★■◆● before it got crazy. Some of these guys are like roided up or something. Pushing people back with 3,000 pound vehicles? Are you out of your mind dude?

Everyone knows we have no privacy anymore - there are cameras EVERYWHERE - you’re not going to get away with it anymore. Yet, ding let’s crack a 70 year old man’s head on the sidewalk and keep walking? That ain’t like developing a good relationship with citizens I’ll tell you that.

There’s going to be a whole lotta positions to fill after this is all over. Training is not working right now.

Conservatives have been all in on authoritarianism for decades, even Trump himself got elected mostly on "Only I can make America great again!". This is the result of it, being the subject of an authoritarian regime is worse for minorities, but it isn't much better for the majority either.

Conservatives love the image of the strongman that comes in and fixes their problems for them so they don't have to think about them, but that ideal doesn't exist. Police corrupted by power and authority do exist and what causes them is exactly the same mindset that elected Trump.

Hours of training to satisfy the requirements to receive a Cosmetology License in California: 1600
Hours of training to satisfy the requirements for Peace Officer Standards and Training in California: 880

ACAB.

I had to look up ACAB last week. I'm more of a FTP guy.

Our tyrant in chief has truly gone off the deep end. All he can do is falsely blame "the left" for what amounts to his own stupidity and lack of leadership. That older gentleman was holding what looks like a CELL PHONE, not a scanner, you sorry excuse for a jackass.

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/06/09/tr ... protester/

Meanwhile, some of the violent scum from Trump's Alt-Right supporters are getting arrested for rioting and assaulting police and are getting fired from their jobs for their troubles. They're going at it in multiple cities during the protests too.

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/sec ... 25b24.html

The video in this link is shocking, but not surprising, given the Charlottesville march after Trump was elected.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/three- ... s-n1224231

The way things are going right now. It wouldn't surprise me if our future ended up like the 1993 Demolition Man.

Get ready for the 3 seashells.

Huh. Looks like the military might have legal grounds to go in before long, per the Insurrection Act.

Protestors set up a police-free zone, among other things

Within this "autonomous zone", the police are unable to operate. Thus, since law cannot be adequately enforced, 10 U.S.C. §252 (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/252) applies. Now all Trump needs to do is tell the people there to go home within a limited time (§254), and if they don't, then the military has the legal right to step in.

Most of the attendance is 98% white while chanting black lives matter. Not sure what to say about that one. What I will say, I'm guessing their health doesn't matter since the cornavirus is still at large. A face mask won't do ★■◆● when worn half covered and standing so close.

TigerRaptorFX wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:15 pm Most of the attendance is 98% white while chanting black lives matter. Not sure what to say about that one. What I will say, I'm guessing their health doesn't matter since the cornavirus is still at large. A face mask won't do ★■◆● when worn half covered and standing so close.

Protesting state-sanctioned murder and centuries' worth of oppression and discrimination tends to be a bit more important to a lot of people than possible risks to their health.

And I don't know what the hell crowds you're looking at but the protests I've seen sure as ★■◆● aren't "98% white."

These are antifa supersoldiers and need to be crushed. Someone call Meal Team 6.

Top Gun wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 11:25 pm

TigerRaptorFX wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2020 10:15 pm Most of the attendance is 98% white while chanting black lives matter. Not sure what to say about that one. What I will say, I'm guessing their health doesn't matter since the cornavirus is still at large. A face mask won't do ★■◆● when worn half covered and standing so close.

Protesting state-sanctioned murder and centuries' worth of oppression and discrimination tends to be a bit more important to a lot of people than possible risks to their health.

And I don't know what the hell crowds you're looking at but the protests I've seen sure as ★■◆● aren't "98% white."

Yes, you're right. But on the other hand this virus is no joke. How many more countless people are going to get infected because others are not taking the proper precautions. My friends co-work who went to one of these BLM protest now has the virus along with her family.

I exaggerated with that number. I was expecting to see more of other races come together here as I’ve seen with other protests.

TigerRaptorFX wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:28 amHow many more countless people are going to get infected because others are not taking the proper precautions.

True. Maybe our leadership should address these problems and quickly, if only to stave off more economic damage from the virus? Would be nice if police reform were to happen because of a heightened sense of morality, but I'll take what I can get. Also, nothing really happens unless if becomes too expensive not to. I'm all for burning down every police station, every big business, every legislator's home in this country because reality only hits some people when it hits their pocketbook.

TigerRaptorFX wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:28 amMy friends co-work who went to one of these BLM protest now has the virus along with her family.

That sucks. I hope they get better soon.

vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:30 pm
Maybe our leadership should address these problems and quickly.

Wish I knew how to answer that one. Every time I turn on the news or something someone is under fire.

vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:30 pmThat sucks. I hope they get better soon.

So far nothing major has happened.

vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:30 pmMaybe our leadership should address these problems and quickly, if only to stave off more economic damage from the virus?

Any chance you can clarify which issues you're referring to?

If you're referring to mass gatherings during the Covid crisis, maybe many of our leaders shouldn't be promoting the protests, or at least take actions to strongly promote or even require social distancing during them.

If you're referring to the issues being protested, I'm not entirely sure what can be done that hasn't been done already, although I am probably missing something. All involved officers in the Floyd case are being charged. Solving racism in general requires the efforts of essentially every single living person, which is not realistic. Solving police brutality against suspects is a little more possible, though as-is it's hard to do much beyond "Don't do it or else you will be sentenced for murder, and maybe a few other things" - what more can you do? Increase the penalties maybe, but clearly the officers in question weren't concerned about that. I can't even think of a non-realistic solution that doesn't exclusively involve some kind of consequence after the person is already dead, let alone a realistic one. Maybe God could take away our free will, but that's about it.

Police brutality against protesters or other gatherings is probably the most realistic to fix, in this case only requiring a handful of votes - though in practice this won't stop future police brutality, and in any case I'm slowly getting the impression that there's more to this story than most prominent voices are letting on. Anti-brutality legislation might actually help here, since it is likely that most or all of a large group of police will follow it, even if there are individuals or small groups who don't. Then again, applicable legislation probably already exists.

LightWolf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:35 pm

vision wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 3:30 pmMaybe our leadership should address these problems and quickly, if only to stave off more economic damage from the virus?

Any chance you can clarify which issues you're referring to?

The main issue, aside from systemic racism and the fact we live in an authoritarian police state no different from China, is that there is no accountability, no legal oversight, and no justice when police break laws and harm innocent people (they shouldn't harm guilty ones either, that's uncivilized). If our leaders, meaning the local, state, and federal government, acknowledge this fact and take tangible steps to correct it, then these protests will stop immediately and we will reduce the length and severity of the pandemic.

LightWolf wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 10:35 pmIf you're referring to the issues being protested, I'm not entirely sure what can be done that hasn't been done already, although I am probably missing something.

There are solutions and they have been successfully implemented on small scales. Now it's time to scale them up and implement them everywhere. Some More News covers the topic this week and ends this video with three bullet points that would drastically improve the situation for all people, not just African Americans (who desperately need this change to happen).

Paraphrasing from the video above:

1. Establish national guidelines for human rights and how police officers can interact with the public, something that many other countries have.
2. Establish consequences for police who break the laws. Some people have suggested that in addition to independent oversight with actual legal power we also force police to have a license and insurance. This has the side benefit of reducing taxpayer burden.
3. Break police departments into specialized divisions that focus on specific community needs and staff these divisions with properly trained individuals. For example, don't send the police to do a wellness check on someone, send an unarmed caseworker. Also, traffic cops should never have firearms. Traffic offenses are not criminal acts, they are civil and involve a fine. You don't need a gun to write a ticket.

By taking these steps we can gradually change the culture of conflict between police and the public to where violent interactions become rare instead of commonplace.

vision wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:11 amAlso, traffic cops should never have firearms. Traffic offenses are not criminal acts, they are civil and involve a fine. You don't need a gun to write a ticket.

I'd go a bit further and suggest we stop the arms race entirely. The issue is in America the default solution to problems for way too many people is to pull a gun out. The people protesting covid shutdowns recently showing up at state capitals with guns was entirely inappropriate and should have never happened. The police being excessively armed and violent is itself a symptom of society as a whole being excessively armed and violent.

Basically the police wouldn't have an excuse for being militarized if we lived in a society where you weren't likely to be shot at for every little thing.

Krom wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:54 am

vision wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 1:11 amAlso, traffic cops should never have firearms. Traffic offenses are not criminal acts, they are civil and involve a fine. You don't need a gun to write a ticket.

I'd go a bit further and suggest we stop the arms race entirely. The issue is in America the default solution to problems for way too many people is to pull a gun out. The people protesting covid shutdowns recently showing up at state capitals with guns was entirely inappropriate and should have never happened. The police being excessively armed and violent is itself a symptom of society as a whole being excessively armed and violent.

Basically the police wouldn't have an excuse for being militarized if we lived in a society where you weren't likely to be shot at for every little thing.

Good luck with that. I can guarantee you that if the Government even tried to take away people's guns, we'd have a massive armed insurrection and Civil War in this country. Listening to my sister who doesn't even OWN a gun, that's the typical conservative's biggest fear, that everyone's guns will be taken away by those damn liberals, so we can't let them even get into government office no matter what. Trump's better than any liberal president. She bitches about it to me because she knows I'm liberal, like it's going to change my mind or something. Geezus. Hell, the local right winger rural people were already pissed off that our DEM governor closed down the State to protect everyone from Covid, so they marched on the State Capital in he-man fashion with their guns displayed and diesel belching trucks roaring in a show of force. Their thinking was that this whole Covid fiasco was all just a liberal a plot just to destroy their livelihood, not protect them from some virus they don't see as a threat. It's crazy, but that's their mindset. Welp, they and all the BLM protestors are going to get sick and spread this bug like crazy now and THEN their livelihoods will be destroyed. Effed either way. Time for a old lady to hunker down yet again.

But as to defund the police, what do you do if you're a business or homeowner in a downtown area and the police are either occupied or nowhere to be seen? Many people are arming themselves in order to prevent the looting of their businesses and homes, not to attack the protestors. Hell, some of them are FOR the protestors. It's the looters they're worried about. Gawd knows there are people out there taking advantage of the situation for the sole purpose of looting, burning or attacking cops. That doesn't mean the some of these morons aren't racists. Most of these armed men in Snohomish, WA are carrying their guns and Confederate Flags like a badge of hate honor. Christ that damn flag needs to be banned. Believe me, it's a lily white rural community and proud of it because I lived there once. Ick! But it's becoming apparent right now that if a business is not perceived to be supportive of the protestors or even "black owned", they're marked as targets by the protestors that these are businesses need to get hit in the wallet. I don't know whether that means "don't give them any business" or "loot them". It's become a vicious cycle that has to stop somewhere before we all start shooting each other. People want to defund the police? Well, the alternative is self-protection by any means possible and that includes being armed and taking the law into your own hands. Anarchy. We NEED the police, just not a militarized police with a militarized mindset.

https://kuow.org/stories/armed-men-in-r ... protesters

Idowu-Holiday, the protest organizer, didn't speak to the armed men but but commented to others on her mic, "That right there is probably a racist, you guys. If we are protesting and people are shaking their heads, then we are probably doing something right."

She also stressed to the group that it was important to research and support businesses who support the Black Lives Matter movement.

"We have to hold poc [people of color owned] businesses accountable too," she said, pointing to a Mexican restaurant that lacked signage, unlike a craft store across the street.

"We are not supporting these businesses that do not support us. Be mindful. Hit them in their wallets."

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 4:07 pmBut as to defund the police, what do you do if you're a business or homeowner in a downtown area and the police are either occupied or nowhere to be seen? Many people are arming themselves in order to prevent the looting of their businesses and homes, not to attack the protestors.

Your second sentence answers the first. Proof that we don't need the police.

Funny how this country is de-evolving back to the old Wild West Days of vigilante and mob justice at the end of a gun. Is that what people really want now? Do you really want to have to guard your home 24/7 vision? Do you want to have to carry to protect yourself from being robbed while walking to your car from the store, if someone hasn't already stolen your car first?

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 7:43 pmFunny how this country is de-evolving back to the old Wild West Days of vigilante and mob justice at the end of a gun. Is that what people really want now?

What the crap are you talking about, crazy lady? There isn't any vigilante justice going on. Where are the reports of mobs attacking people with guns? There aren't any, unless you count the police, who are doing all the attacking. We are not devolving, we are trying our damnedest to be progressive and catch up with the rest of the civilized world. We want police accountability.

Also, the Wild West is a Hollywood myth.