DescentBB

do you believe we should be supporting China?

I believe that the US and Canada and even the world needs to stop outsourcing to China. We made them into the super power they are today. Sadly, our economy wouldn't support having things made in US or Canada as it would cost to much.

woodchip wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:50 am do you believe we should be supporting China?

Define "supporting".

vision wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 12:22 pm

woodchip wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:50 am do you believe we should be supporting China?

Define "supporting".

how about not opposig the genocide of the Uyghur? Do you gear any protest from the white house?

woodchip wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 1:07 pmhow about not opposig the genocide of the Uyghur? Do you gear any protest from the white house?

I assume you are posting from your phone all the time now and are too lazy to proofread your posts. I think you'll have a hard time finding people who support the Uyghur genocide, but having economic and diplomatic relations with China is not the same a "supporting" them or supporting human rights abuses. I do think there should be more international pressure on China to treat it's citizens better. And while I think the government of China is abhorrent, I also understand that China's own citizens have mixed feelings about it and that people there have many of the same concerns we do about governance.

China is corrupt as hell. A friend of mine who came from China says there's so much corruption in that country that a lot of these speculative bubbles are starting to burst. The real estate speculation pyramid that has been going on for years and that we've been feeding with our steel is now the first to start toppling. Chinese investors are now getting burned and going bankrupt and as they do, more and more of them topple. Foreign investors are staying far away and creditors are knocking because there is too much substandard and poorly built housing on the market and not enough people who will or can actually live in it and pay rent. On top of that, the housing is poorly built and ready to fall apart. Property development in China was used to create even more property in a giant pyramid scheme that's now buckling under it's corrupt weight. Xi is freaking out and trying extreme measures to stabilize things using blunt force power. But the motto is, apparently commies can't keep their commie ideals and dabble in "state capitalism" at the same time without it blowing up in their faces. It's a Frankenstein system that's falling apart at the seams and it's all due to stupidity, rampant greed and corruption. Every nation on earth would do well to pull their manufacturing out of China. Dry up their national source of income and the commies may end up a dead breed. And remember, military development, construction and quality is not immune to corruption's corrosive influence either. Plus China does not have a mainland source of petroleum to sustain itself in any conflict. And people wonder why Biden screwed the French with that submarine deal of ours. America and it's allies are planning for something in the South China Sea and it's not for China's benefit.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newslett ... y-saturday

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-06/ ... /100435868

CDN_Merlin wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:18 am I believe that the US and Canada and even the world needs to stop outsourcing to China. We made them into the super power they are today. Sadly, our economy wouldn't support having things made in US or Canada as it would cost to much.

The only reason the economy "wouldn't" support that is because people won't stop bending over backwards for CEO's.

Yes, 'burger flippers' (burger flippers is such an elitist and derogatory term) deserve 25 an hour because they're grown adults with bills to pay and families to support and it shouldn't be subject to a beancounters' opinion. Yes, wages should have kept up with inflation so we can afford good quality goods. No, CEO's don't deserve a billion dollar bonus when they have 35 billion already. No, houses shouldn't be worth 1.5 million when two years ago they were worth 650k.

And every time there's a merger or acquisition, the quality of everything drops just a bit more. If you've ever wondered why your clothing doesn't last as long as it once did, it's not your imagination playing tricks on you. That's by design.

yeah, I know that Ferno. Greed is the 2nd most evil in the world.

I'm the most moral person.

woodchip wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 9:50 am do you believe we should be supporting China?

NO.

Do you think that the U.S. diplomatic boycott of the Beijing Olympics is enough of a stand against Chinese repression or should we boycott them completely and keep our athletes at home?

But then they might not make our American flags anymore.

Tunnelcat wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:18 pm China is corrupt as hell.

The imminent downfall of the Chinese economy has been predicted for decades now. It's always just right about to happen. I'm sure it will some day hit a recession, like any economy, but these predictions of imminent downfall typically come from those who want to see it fall.

Jeff250 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 08, 2021 4:50 amThe imminent downfall of the Chinese economy has been predicted for decades now. It's always just right about to happen.

True. But one thing seems to be true is that China's explosive growth years are over and they are doing their best to not fall into the same trappings as Japan. I wish I bookmarked the article, but I read a pretty in-depth analysis of Japan's slide into stagflation. The main takeaway was continual missteps on what should be left to the private sector versus which industries should be nationalized and when, mixed with a certain type of Japanese nationalism that made them lest flexible in planning their economic future. I've also read that China is already past the tipping point and destined to make the same mistakes as Japan. I haven't anything more to say on this since economics is not something I know much about, but my guess is that China's economy will largely be the same for the next couple decades.*

*Climate change could wreck the global economy in the next 20 years. Also, I read a book about global depopulation due to declining birth rates that proposes a possible economic "steady state" where the world's economic growth slows to a halt, basically freezing in place every countries development. Bad news for Africa, but also major economies too.

As to climate change China isn't helping:
"China is planning to build 43 new coal-fired power plants and 18 new blast furnaces — equivalent to adding about 1.5% to its current annual emissions — according to a new report. The new projects were announced in the first half of this year despite the world’s largest polluter pledging to bring its emissions to a peak before 2030, and to make the country carbon neutral by 2060."
https://time.com/6090732/china-coal-pow ... emissions/

If you believe China will be carbon neutral by 2060 I have some swamp land I'll sell you.

woodchip wrote: ↑Thu Dec 09, 2021 8:01 amIf you believe China will be carbon neutral by 2060 I have some swamp land I'll sell you.

I never made that claim. Very few countries will be carbon neutral by 2060. Collectively we are doing a terrible job in regards to climate change.