Too bad 2nd Amendmant happened

[woodchip]

SCOTUS shot down NY's shall carry law. As Robert Duvall says in Apocalypse Now, "I love the smell of burning napalm in the morning".

[Top Gun]

The Second Amendment was treated reasonably for almost two centuries until psychopathic ammosexuals started needing to compensate for their microdicks.

[mystery2018]

So government should be the only ones with guns then lmao? Your emotional whining does not suffice for an argument. Shut the ★■◆● up.

[Vander]

I don't particularly want cops armed like soldiers patrolling Fallujah either.

[mystery2018]

No they shouldn't be. And that's another question we should be asking. When our corrupt politicians say that so called "weapons of war" don't belong on the street, they always mean in the hands of law abiding citizens. Well why have they been proliferating in the hands of law enforcement? Almost like there is a war on us. This is why I get confused by liberals who seem to want citizens completely disarmed while the cops they hate so much will have all the power. Their "arguments" come from pure emotion. They don't think before they speak. Everything to them is some soap opera drama that's supposed to get solved in a half hour. If no one had guns no one would get hurt anymore hurr durr let's outlaw murder!

I guess the actual problem in this case would be our totally ineffective education system. No one should be spouting opinions as idiotic as this. They defy common sense.

All in all, nobody that wants to disarm you has your best interests in mind. And history has countless examples of this to read and study. But of course liberals never read they have their thoughts curated for them by television and talking heads. We actually may need a dramatic restriction of suffrage. I don't want morons with a bootlicking habit making decisions that affect me.

[Top Gun]

So government should be the only ones with guns then lmao? Your emotional whining does not suffice for an argument. Shut the ★■◆● up.

So I take it you're part of a "well-regulated militia" then? What's your name? When do you meet for drills? Who's in charge of determining admission?

Also yes, it's the big bad "liberals" who don't read, not the inbred drooling rednecks who hump their barrels.

[Krom]

The reason the cops have to be armed better than the average military is because everyone else including the criminals are also armed better than the average military. The cops weren't always this well armed because they didn't need to be. Now that every moron on the sidewalk can be carrying around enough firepower to level the whole ★■◆●ing street the cops can't effectively respond to it with a nightstick.

[Ferno]

Krom?

Show me a group of criminals with 5.56 and .223 sniper rifles, MRAPs, body armor rivalling EOD teams, infantry level 5.56 rifles, drones and robot dogs.

[Krom]

You can buy all of that in America legally without a background check.

[Tunnelcat]

The New York law was arbitrary with it's "proper cause" restriction on how the police could decide who should be allowed to conceal carry a weapon, which was all the wedge a Conservative Court needed to overturn a 111 year old law. On that note, I now see shootings skyrocketing in New York City, which may become the Wild West of the East. Time will tell. Worse, now all the cops in that city will have to assume that everyone they encounter in that large urban city is carrying a weapon. I wouldn't want their job in the near future.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/23/a-supreme ... -gun-laws/

One of the biggest cases on its docket this term and the first major gun ruling in more than a decade, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen challenged the state’s 111-year-old Sullivan Act, which gives police discretion to decide whether to issue a concealed carry permit for handguns to New Yorkers who can demonstrate “proper cause.” The plaintiffs claimed such a restriction was unconstitutional and won a 6-3 decision.

[woodchip]

You can buy all of that in America legally without a background check.

Really? When was the last time you bought a firearm?

[woodchip]

The New York law was arbitrary with it's "proper cause" restriction on how the police could decide who should be allowed to conceal carry a weapon, which was all the wedge a Conservative Court needed to overturn a 111 year old law. On that note, I now see shootings skyrocketing in New York City, which may become the Wild West of the East. Time will tell. Worse, now all the cops in that city will have to assume that everyone they encounter in that large urban city is carrying a weapon. I wouldn't want their job in the near future.

https://nypost.com/2022/06/23/a-supreme ... -gun-laws/

They said this about Michigan some 30 years ago when they passed their shall issue cpl law. So far as I know it never happened. Stop listening to your news sources that keep repeating the same dogma every time a state is forced to change their gun laws

One of the biggest cases on its docket this term and the first major gun ruling in more than a decade, New York State Rifle & Pistol Association, Inc. v. Bruen challenged the state’s 111-year-old Sullivan Act, which gives police discretion to decide whether to issue a concealed carry permit for handguns to New Yorkers who can demonstrate “proper cause.” The plaintiffs claimed such a restriction was unconstitutional and won a 6-3 decision.

[/quote]

[Tunnelcat]

Care to comment on this?

https://rkguns.org/product-category/buy ... und-check/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... -can-help/

How about Ghost Guns?

As for Michigan, it is not New York City, a dense highly populated urban area. However, Detroit's high gun violence is a good indication. Time will tell on the escalation of any gun violence within NYC.

[woodchip]

Care to comment on this?

https://rkguns.org/product-category/buy ... und-check/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... -can-help/

So these sites are like Craig's list selling fire arms. I'm surprised they are allowed to exist. A few lawsuits ought to correct that. And I thought there was a law against mail order firearms

How about Ghost Guns?

As for Michigan, it is not New York City, a dense highly populated urban area. However, Detroit's high gun violence is a good indication. Time will tell on the escalation of any gun violence within NYC.

There is no indication that conceal carry is causing The violence

[Tunnelcat]

That's yet to be seen. Time will tell because right now, people are going crazy after Covid and lots of weapons are not something they need to solve disputes with.

[Ferno]

You can buy all of that in America legally without a background check.

Well that's a bit of a problem, don'tchathink?

[Tunnelcat]

Woody didn't have a response to the "online gun sales with no background check" and "Ghost Guns" issues. I also noticed that in that stupid Gun Safety Bill that Biden just signed with fanfare, there was no provision to fix that glaring nasty loophole of a problem either, unless it was hidden. What a bunch of idiots.

[woodchip]

Woody didn't have a response to the "online gun sales with no background check" and "Ghost Guns" issues. I also noticed that in that stupid Gun Safety Bill that Biden just signed with fanfare, there was no provision to fix that glaring nasty loophole of a problem either, unless it was hidden. What a bunch of idiots.

I did respond. You miss it?

[LightWolf]

Care to comment on this?

https://rkguns.org/product-category/buy ... und-check/

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... -can-help/

So these sites are like Craig's list selling fire arms. I'm surprised they are allowed to exist. A few lawsuits ought to correct that. And I thought there was a law against mail order firearms

How about Ghost Guns?

As for Michigan, it is not New York City, a dense highly populated urban area. However, Detroit's high gun violence is a good indication. Time will tell on the escalation of any gun violence within NYC.

There is no indication that conceal carry is causing The violence

[/quote]
[/quote]
[/quote]

If you mean this, the quotes got horribly mangled. It even tried to wrap what I had to say into the quoting.

[Tunnelcat]

Yeah, LightWolf pointed it out. You mangled something in your answer woody. I'll make it simple. Do you support online gun sales with no background checks? Are you OK with homemade ghost guns? A simple "no" or "yes" for either question would suffice. Remember, I'm a legal gun owner. I went through background checks for each one. I'm totally in favor of this and had no problem with having to wait either since I have no intention of going out into society to use them in a crime or to commit a murder.

[woodchip]

Yeah, LightWolf pointed it out. You mangled something in your answer woody. I'll make it simple. Do you support online gun sales with no background checks? Are you OK with homemade ghost guns? A simple "no" or "yes" for either question would suffice. Remember, I'm a legal gun owner. I went through background checks for each one. I'm totally in favor of this and had no problem with having to wait either since I have no intention of going out into society to use them in a crime or to commit a murder.

Just so there is no mistake I buy my firearms through FFL's, so no to both your questions.

[Tunnelcat]

That's good. But do you support closing the online sales non-FFL loophole and banning ghost guns?

[Ferno]

Hey, TC, most guns still need a steel barrel, upper and lower receiver, metal springs and metal magazines. So even if you could print out parts, you're still asking Winchester and Colt for the core. They'd easily tell you to take a walk.

[Tunnelcat]

Those parts can be purchased in what's called "buy, build, shoot" kits. Legal and untraceable.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/12/10920636 ... -explained

[woodchip]

Those parts can be purchased in what's called "buy, build, shoot" kits. Legal and untraceable.

https://www.npr.org/2022/04/12/10920636 ... -explained

I know far better than reading a link as I know guys who bought them. Do you know it is easy to file off any identifying (serial) numbers? Ghost guns I lump in with those that have to go thru a FFL. Now here is a question for you...are you for the red flag laws?

[Tunnelcat]

Yes.

[woodchip]

So you don't mind due process being abrogated and someone like a neighbor calls the police and says TC is a threat and owns firearms. Police come out, confiscate your firearms without a court order (due process) . You really don't have a problem with this.

[Tunnelcat]

So you don't mind due process being abrogated and someone like a neighbor calls the police and says TC is a threat and owns firearms. Police come out, confiscate your firearms without a court order (due process) . You really don't have a problem with this.

One, nearly half my neighbors around me own guns, so they're in the same boat as I. Two, we're all good friends and respect each other's rights and freedoms. Three, I don't brag about or even reveal to my neighbors that I own guns. Four, if I were to start acting like a crazy SOB threatening to shoot anyone, the authorities should have the right to protect everyone around me by confiscating my guns. Does that answer your question? By the way, your response answered mine. You don' t approve of Red Flag Laws.

[Ferno]

Since there was a July 4th massacre, it just shows that the pro-gun side won. The debate is over. Nothing to talk about anymore.

The only thing that will happen now is people will die over, and over, and over again.

Have fun masturbating with your gun boner every day. Won't be many people to share it with soon.

[Top Gun]

Man I sure am glad all of those Good Guys with Guns (TM) were there to...

...wait, what's that? They didn't? Color me shocked.

[Tunnelcat]

Yet another immature male with an AR style weapon going on a shooting spree. Wash, rinse, repeat. What's with these idiots? Do they get a boner or something since they don't have the brains for anything more intelligent? As for the "good guys" with guns, how in the hell would they have stopped this bastard who was perched up on a rooftop playing Rambo anyway?

[Tunnelcat]

Philadelphia Mayor just said something like this: "We are the most armed country in the world and yet we're the least safe".

[woodchip]

So you don't mind due process being abrogated and someone like a neighbor calls the police and says TC is a threat and owns firearms. Police come out, confiscate your firearms without a court order (due process) . You really don't have a problem with this.

One, nearly half my neighbors around me own guns, so they're in the same boat as I. Two, we're all good friends and respect each other's rights and freedoms. Three, I don't brag about or even reveal to my neighbors that I own guns. Four, if I were to start acting like a crazy SOB threatening to shoot anyone, the authorities should have the right to protect everyone around me by confiscating my guns. Does that answer your question? By the way, your response answered mine. You don' t approve of Red Flag Laws.

Highland Park just shows how worthless red flag laws are.

[woodchip]

Philadelphia Mayor just said something like this: "We are the most armed country in the world and yet we're the least safe".

Would you like me to show you where armed civilians protected them selves and others, prevented mass killings?

[Krom]

Yes, do so, please show more than the 300+ mass shootings so far this year that have not been stopped by a citizen in self defense.

[Vander]

Have you considered the uncountable instances of mass shooters who were so scared of good guys with guns that they never even attempted their shooting?

[woodchip]

Yes, do so, please show more than the 300+ mass shootings so far this year that have not been stopped by a citizen in self defense.

A 2013 review of the literature by the National Research Council found that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million.” At the time of the 2013 report, there were nineteen surveys on the frequency of defensive gun uses. All found that defensive gun uses were prevalent. The vast majority of these surveys indicated that there are at least a million annual defensive gun uses. Of these, the most reliable survey found at least 2.1 million defensive uses of guns each ye

Mr. English found that “guns are used defensively by civilian firearms owners in approximately 1.67 million incidents per year. Handguns are the most common firearm employed for self-defense (used in 65.9% of defensive incidents), and in most defensive incidents (81.9%), no shot was fired.” Mr. English found that more than half of defensive gun uses occurred in situations involving two or more assailants, highlighting guns’ importance as equalizers.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/20 ... an-crimes/

T

he CDC essentially confirmed Kleck's results. But Kleck didn't know about that until now, because the CDC never reported what it found. Kleck's new paper - "What Do CDC's Surveys Say About the Frequency of Defensive Gun Uses?" - finds that the agency had asked about DGUs in its Behavioral Risk Factor Surveillance System in 1996, 1997, and 1998. Those polls, Kleck writes, "are high-quality telephone surveys of enormous probability samples of U.S. adults, asking about a wide range of health-related topics. Those that addressed DGUs asked more people about this topic than any other surveys conducted before or since... The final adjusted prevalence of 1.24% therefore implies that in an average year during 1996-1998, 2.46 million U.S. adults used a gun for self-defense.

https://www.cfif.org/v/index.php/commen ... than-crime

"(CNSNews.com) – “Self-defense can be an important crime deterrent,”says a new report by the Centers for Disease Control (CDC). The $10 million study was commissioned by President Barack Obama as part of 23 executive orders he signed in January."

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/cd ... -deterrent

Finally I'll relate a incident the happened to me way back when I was 17. A friend and I were visiting his relations down in Kentucky. After he went off into town, he came back and told me to get my shotgun. When I asked why, he said he'd been kidnapped. Kidnappers knew his grandmother lived at the end of a dead end road and wanted him to get some money. Got the shotgun and as we were getting into his car we could see the kidnappers coming down the road. We stopped and when they started started to get in the car I reached in the back seat, raised and pointed the gun at them. They knew what the business end of a 12 gauge was all about and took off. Thankfully I didn't have to pull the trigger. So I'm the last person to convince your antigun philosophy is valid

[Tunnelcat]

Philadelphia Mayor just said something like this: "We are the most armed country in the world and yet we're the least safe".

Would you like me to show you where armed civilians protected them selves and others, prevented mass killings?

Actually, I can show you. No protection from a mass shooting, but protection from violent intruders. And yes, someone invading my home will get shot dead long before I even try to call the police if I hear them first. It's a sad state of affairs when we even have to resort to that just to protect ourselves in our violent society.



Doonsbury had a good one about the recent mass shootings by young men on Sunday.

https://www.gocomics.com/doonesbury/2022/07/10

[Darth Wang]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather not live in a stereotypical depiction of the Wild West where everyone carries a gun everywhere and gets into at least 3 shootouts daily.

[Vander]

I'm fine living in a wild west depiction. I'm the hero, so everything will work out fine.