DescentBB

*groan* Hey, it's late. Happy birthday to the new free Iraq.

Guess the islamikazis got caught with their pants down on this one. Doesn't really prevent them from still doing something though.

Unfortunately it would make too much sense to think that now that they have sovereignty that the terrorism would *decrease*.

They might as well though get started on their Jimmy Jihad for President campaign and learn how the *free* world operates.

my hat is off to them all. I hope it works and I hope the violence doesnt' get too bad.

[edit] nvm, google news cleared that one up [/edit]

Brilliant maneuver by everyone involved.

How many more years do you think we'll be there? We should start a betting pool. I say 6-8 years, or our 'money' runs out. Odds?

At least we're not having hundreds a day being slaughtered like Vietnam. Small comfort. (Not that that really matters, Americans killed more of each other here, than the Vietcong did over there, during that time period)

This gets my vote for best thread title ever!

Sorry to say Testi, but I don't think you'll see the US out of Iraq or the middle east in our life time. That region of the world is like a black hole, once you get caught you get sucked into the vacuum for a VERY LONG time.

A people who have been beating themselves senseless since their inception in this world has to be awfully dedicated to the cause. Now that we have their focus it will be a long hard road indeed.

I don't think it's relevant how much longer we'll be there (but thanks for the derail ) -- the point of *this thread* is that Iraq has been handed over to an Iraqi government a few days early, which seriously upstages whatever plans the terrorists had for the morning of the 30th, and adds a little bit of credibility to the US message that we're going to put power in the hands of the citizens of Iraq.

How long will we be there? How long have we been in Germany? How long in Korea? The similarites are both countries border percieved enemies of our country. So does Iraq. Iran is now faced with our troops on both of its long borders and must now be very worried. No wonder they are actively pursuing nukes. Too bad we won't let them have 'em (until a socialist liberal here gets the white house )

It's a great start, and a smart move. Trumps terrorism on the 30th and makes things appear like they are moving along, and that we aren't just going to stay as long as we possibly can.

I can't wait till things proceed to full soverignty.

I had a lot of reservations about handing over power on an announced, specific day, feeling that the terrorists would naturally attempt something terrible. By shifting power two days earlier, we upstaged their plans and turned a questionable move into an outright brilliant one.

Tbone:

This gets my vote for best thread title ever!

I agree.

Is what I hear about US forces pulling out of Iraq something like this week true? I'm not convinced such a move is terribly bright... like 'em or hate 'em, they are all that is keeping the country from descending into, well, complete chaos right now...

Um, what? US forces leaving Iraq this week? I SERIOUSLY doubt that.

And the presence of US forces is what is keeping the country from descending into chaos.

What is to stop anything fomr happening onthe 30th anyway? I really doubt that the Islamakazis care the proceedings went two days early. Guess we'll find out tomorrow!

Heh Testi... you really want to drag us down, don't you?

Testiculese wrote:What is to stop anything fomr happening onthe 30th anyway?

Nothing. But that's irrelevant.

This has stopped them from stealing the spotlight -- had they pulled something off early on the morning of the 30th, right before the handover, the handover would've been a couple headlines down the page below "Militant Insurgent Gunmen blow stuff up." (Al-Reuters won't call them "terrorists".) Instead, the handover has enjoyed a full day at the top of the headlines.

Terrorism will continue -- it's not like this will stop future attacks -- but this really stole some headlines, and I think it got the message out that the US isn't trying to hang on as long as possible, we're trying to get the country into the hands of sensible Iraqis and get power in the hands of the Iraqi people.

I was thinking the same thing as Testi actually. A greater statement would have been to handover "power" exactly as planned, without incident, instead of a thumb to the nose and say ner ner ner ner ner. (ok a little trite, but you know what i mean)

It was a cute ploy but in one way i think it's on it's way to be a rather pyrrhic victory, time will tell i guess.

Great title Bash.

Lothar, they aren't terrorists in there own country. They are just militants. The only problem I had with the early signing off is that it makes a policy of hiding from the bad guys. Could America not protect an actual ceremony? Is security in that country sooo bad right now that the instant Bremer signed off, he was evacuated to an air base and immediately flown home?

"A greater statement would have been to handover "power" exactly as planned, without incident, "

Actually, that's exactly what happened. June 30th was a deadline, not the actual planned day.

I'm not dragging anything down. Is this some sort of 'victory' for you or something? Is 'stealing some headlines' it? Boy, we showed them! How's that for one-uppance. This is just a symbolic show of essentially nothing. A few native political heads are given marginal free reign. If you want to wave your little American flag and pretend the world is somehow better now, go right ahead. This story was not front page around here anyway, A soldier who's been missing for a few months reported to be killed was on the front page.

Iraq won't be free until..uh...whenever we leave.

So...'heh'

Birdseye wrote:Actually, that's exactly what happened. June 30th was a deadline, not the actual planned day.

Ah! ok my bad. I stand corrected.

Testiculese wrote:I'm not dragging anything down. Is this some sort of 'victory' for you or something? Is 'stealing some headlines' it? Boy, we showed them! How's that for one-uppance. This is just a symbolic show of essentially nothing. A few native political heads are given marginal free reign. If you want to wave your little American flag and pretend the world is somehow better now, go right ahead. This story was not front page around here anyway, A soldier who's been missing for a few months reported to be killed was on the front page.

Iraq won't be free until..uh...whenever we leave.

So...'heh'

So Testy, I guess Germany, Japan, Korea and Kosovo aren't free either

Birds, all indications coming out of Washington and out of the little black box on my TV stand (yeah, the radio ) were that the transfer of power was planned for June 30.

I'm glad to see that the Interim PM is aware that his powers are somewhat limited by the necessity of the presence of American troops. But then again, he was hand-picked by the coalition.

DCrazy wrote:
I'm glad to see that the Interim PM is aware that his powers are somewhat limited by the necessity of the presence of American troops. But then again, he was hand-picked by the coalition.

I may be mistaken, but I don't think the PM was hand picked by the coalition. I think the governing council picked him much to the chagrin of the coalition. Bash, Index et al may correct me.

The UN picked him, ultimately, but both Bremer and the UN special envoy Lakhdar Brahimi reportedly pushed for Adnan Pachachi. The Iraqi Governing Council insisted on Iyad Allawi and the UN acquiesced, which led to the recent UN Security Council passage of the resolution recognizing the new line-up as the legitimate government of Iraq (a prerequisite for renewed UN *help*). That the IGC overruled the coalition/UN choice definitely gave Allawi street cred among ordinary Iraqis.

You ever think Bash, some smart cookie in the coalition planned it to look like this?

Could be. Brahimi was reportedly fuming about Pachachi being rejected but the Bush folks all did high-fives over the choice of Allawi. Must have been just dumb luck because everyone knows the Americans bumble everything and don't have the diplomatic savvy to pull off such a palace coup. Also, it's strictly a coincidence that Allawi is a member of Skull & Bones. (j/k)

Dcrazy, I believe it was a deadline, rather than a planned date despite your comments. From time:
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 19,00.html

From one of the Iraqi blogs...

[quote]
فاما الزبد فيذهب جفاء واما ماينفع الناس فيمكث في الارض

This is a famous Arabic verse of divine Wisdom; the eloquence and resonance of the sentence cannot be translated but the meaning is as follows:

â??As for the scum, it will go (disappear) in vain (uselessly); and as for that which has benefit for people, it will stay in the earth.â?

We all must hope this feeling spreads!

Well, if you're in the mood for it:

Our hope and our goal is to see the day when we can elect our representatives freely and more important is to be aware that the process is moving as we wish and there will be no room for those who dream of bringing back the past.
I can see only one bright road and I believe that going to the end is worth the sacrifice and weâ??ll never be discouraged by the dark pictures shown by the evil propaganda machines. To me, we didnâ??t get rid of a military occupation today as I never considered the coalitionâ??s presence as an occupation even if the whole world told me that Iâ??m wrong. Today we were freed for ever from the fear that a man and his family might once again control Iraq.

-- Mohammed Link

Thank you united state of America for your great Job you done here. Thank you coalitions forces for you brave work and supporting good. Thank you all Brave mans ,who lost there life here ,your bloods will be the river of hope for us. Thank you all good friends out there ,thank you for being with us all the way , minute by minute ,day by day ,living our sadness and happiness ,standing beside us ,encouraging us Supporting us ,worry about us ,we always felt that you are there beside us ,with us. Thank you all brave Iraqis who stand out there to fight for better future and freedom. I will go now to celebrate with all people for this happy moments ,it has been long time since we celebrate .

-- Sarmad Link

I hold high hopes in Iraqi Prime Minister Ayad Allawi and his courageous team. Yes, you could say every negative thing about them. But, those people wake up every morning to go to work not knowing if they'll be alive be end of the day. Cowards don't do that.

Thank you to everyone who helped Iraq since the collapse of Saddam's regime. Thank you to everyone who encouraged the Iraqi bloggers to write their thoughts even when everyone felt down. No, I'm not going to stop blogging. I'm just thankful to the people who read these amateur Iraqi blogs, which represent the new Iraq and its newborn democracy.

-- Fayrouz Link

Today is new day and it is a great day for all Iraqis and for freedom lovers. I have been waiting for a day like today for the last twenty two years I have lived here in the states. I as well as so many Iraqis thought we would never see a day like today. However, the day the coalitions decide to proceed toward Baghdad, I thought that is the beginning to a new era. Anyway that is that and we have to look forward and toward the future of Iraq. There are so much potential for Iraq as a country not to mention the people of Iraq. Now they have tasted some freedom they will never let go of it, I am certain of that. I am extremely optimistic about the new government and the new Iraq

-- Baghdadi Link

I would have just posted a link to the NYT coverage, but well ... you know.

holy cow, four people praised us. they truly speak for the other 1.2 billion Muslims on the face of the earth.

LOL Zuruck... nothing productive to say, and nothing you really CAN say against the words from their own mouths, so you just target the fact that we haven't yet managed to take a nationwide poll. Typical.

i thought it was productive to say. how many people live in Iraq? You take four people that have something nice to say, which is good to hear, and you turn it into a "Look, everyone is happy and having fun".

Oh, wasn't it sad that 3 more soldiers died yesterday? What does that make it now, 800 plus change?

[zuruck]

Holy cow, 800+ soldiers died. They truly represent the 120,000+ soldiers in Iraq right now.

[/zuruck]

See, I can dismiss numbers too. But there's a difference between this and your dismissal -- that is, we *know* how many soldiers have died. We know an upper limit -- and it's not very many.

On the other hand, we don't know how many people agree with index_html's sentiment -- he quoted four, but it's pretty clear that there are a lot more than 4 in agreement with that sentiment. The question is, how many? Is what index quoted representative of Iraqis, or not?

If index's quotes are NOT representative of Iraqis, then surely you can find at least 4 iraqi blogs saying the opposite... right? Go to it. Ball's in your court, Z -- do the research to verify your position. Find some Iraqi blogs that are saying the opposite.

holy cow, four people praised us. they truly speak for the other 1.2 billion Muslims on the face of the earth.

You take four people that have something nice to say, which is good to hear, and you turn it into a "Look, everyone is happy and having fun".

Welp, I've re-read my post 4 times and I just can't find the part where I said anything resembling either of those things (except perhaps implying that it was "good to hear"). I didn't even use my subliminal VRWC ultra-tiny, tinfoil-penetrating font to implant those thoughts in your mind ... really, check the source code.

Amusing texts, even they are sincere they are nevertheless amusing indeed

I enjoyed the style of the first blog post by Wa Al Salaam Alaykum Wa rahamutu Allahi Wa Barakatuh (had to cut and paste that name ) A fine example of the style of prose I associate with the Mid-eastern culture. I particularly enjoyed the line

Likewise, I am not going to say anything grandiose today

in amongst some of what could only be termed gradiose language in a western post. That style of writing gives you a little window on the difference in culture between the west and the mid-east.