DescentBB

I loved my old Logitech Wingman(the OLD one with 2 buttons and no twist function). Unfortunately I gave it my last turn a week ago. I've used a CH Flightstick Pro, Precision 2, Gravis Blackhawk Digital Precision 1, Logitech Freedom, and a couple other sticks. However, none have matched the Logitech Wingman's performance and durability.

What I want:

-at least 1 button(2 buttons for my thumb could be handy for banking though)
-no huge base like the sidewinder joysticks
-no twist function
-no stiffness like the Precision 2 and Gravis Blackhawk. I mean I want it to be very easy to move the joystick around. I should be able to move it around effortlessly with my pinky. That's prolly the most important part.

Any suggestions besides the old Logitech Wingman that I can't get my hands on anymore? I've been looking at the Logitech Wingman: Attack joystick. I'm not sure if it has a twist function or not, and how stiff it is though. Thanx.

I know you don't like the base of the SW sticks but no other joystick for Descent has even come close to the Sidewinder 3D Pro

Even the prepro and prepro2 sucked donkey nuts in comparison, stupid Microshaft.

ebay!

hey JF, have you ever used a HOTAS setup? HOTAS = Hands On Throttle And Stick.

bascially its a two unit setup, throttle on one unit, stick on the other. the Thrust Master Top Gun2 is setup like that, and the Saitek X45 is also. i love playing on HOTAS, the TM TG2, has 8 buttons total + HAT, two rudder controls that are selectable ( one is the stick twist itself, and the other is a analog toggle button on the backside of the throttle ) and your request of a no stiffie stick is very well met with Adjustable Stiffness on the stick.

the X45 is alittle pricey for its features, and the TG2 is something like 45-55$ which is very good for its number of features and abilities.

I can offer my take on your specifications:

1) Without a large-ish base, no stick will remain stable, or in the same location on the desk.

2) No twist function = you're dead. Unless you have some better method of rolling your ship, which I doubt. Unless you have wrist problems, the R-Axis is best on the stick. If you can't get used to it, then you're lazy, and un-trainable. All good things take time.

3) A sloppy action is entirely your choice - of course - but I suggest to you that no stick today has such an action. There's a good reason: sloppy sticks = crappy sticks! A firm action provides more control. I can imagine you being horrified when you first grabbed the Logitech Freedom. It seems very heavy at first, but they loosen up quite a bit in the first few hours of play, and then become almost telepathic aftera few days. My flatymate just got the Logitech 3D Pro (!) and he was freaked out by the weight when he got it, but now he says he'd never go back to a sloppy stick ever again.

My recommendation is to find a stick which feels right in your hands, and provides a level of accuracy which you can apprecaite, and then just spend some time getting used to it.

I can't recommend the logitech range myself, as they're made about as strong as an alloy beer can, but they DO perform better than any other stick I've ever tried. If you buy it from a retailer you have a good relationship with, and they're close by - so you can return it every 4th week - then you won't be disappointed!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Mobius:
<b> 2) No twist function = you're dead. Unless you have some better method of rolling your ship, which I doubt. Unless you have wrist problems, the R-Axis is best on the stick. If you can't get used to it, then you're lazy, and un-trainable. All good things take time.

</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

you use the Rudder axis to roll your ship?!?!?! the Rudder axis is just like a boat and a airplane rudder controls. it yaws the vehicle left and right along the Vertical axis

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by Jesus Freak:
<b> What I want:

-at least 1 button(2 buttons for my thumb could be handy for banking though)
-no huge base like the sidewinder joysticks
-no twist function
-no stiffness like the Precision 2 and Gravis Blackhawk. I mean I want it to be very easy to move the joystick around. I should be able to move it around effortlessly with my pinky. That's prolly the most important part.</b></font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The sloppiest action possible comes w/ the M$ SW FF2 -- the stick is completely limb, no return forces whatsoever (ask Suncho about it). OTOH it has "da twist" and features a huge base.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">Originally posted by AceCombat:
you use the Rudder axis to roll your ship?!?!?! the Rudder axis is just like a boat and a airplane rudder controls. it yaws the vehicle left and right along the Vertical axis</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i use the r-axis in the same way for rolling. you can do maneuvers you didn't even think about before. afaik, there are many people flying with a similar setup. as mobi says, it's just a matter of training to get used to it. i wouldn't want to miss the r-axis anymore.
oh yeah, and i know what this axis is meant for, but i don't fscking care

heh, okay just alittle confusing to me. i set mine like that because well....... a pilot in RL is already used to that with Rudder Pedals

OH BTW: JF here is a pic of the stick setup i run:




and again with the stick separated:



mine is separated and is black like the first pic. i didnt like how close together the Throttle and Stick were to eachother so i separated them with the little allen wrench included in the base and both parts rest on each side of my desk respectively to their position as a whole. as i said earlier this is called a HOTAS ( Hands On Throttle And Stick ) setup

Un-Ace-cheesy HOTAS setup here.. mix and match cant be beat!

Pro Throttle / Prec2 (you can use any joystick you want)

adding pedals next!

it may be cheesy, but ohwell, and i do like your setup

anyone ever try the Saitek Cyborg 3D Rumble Force Stick? How is it for d3? I need a new stick bad man. I'm starting to get the shakes.

Logitech Wingman Strike Force 3D, hands down. Yes, its got the twist function, but on the base of the stick part itself is a screw you can turn to lock the stick in place to disable the Z axis....if you *really* want to. I really don't recommend it though as the twist really helps. You can trichord with just turning on the stick, pulling in whatever direction and pushing a button either on the base of the stick or a key on your KB...depending on how you set it up.

How does that one compare to the Logitech Wingman Extreme Digital 3D? I really don't care about force feedback. D3 is the only game I play on a stick.

I would guess about the same.

I hope later revesions of the LWE3d improved the twist functionality. the one on my first gen stick is busted.

I use a Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold. It has twist and the stick is adjustable to either right or left hand.

Here

Well I picked up a Saitek Cyborg 3D Gold USB joystick off of Ebay. Should be here in a few days.

3d gold all the way!

In reference to Bubba and Ace, I always heard that HOTAS wasn't the way to go with D3. Something about response time with the throttle. Do you guys have that problem?

That is an excuse someone created as why not to get a throttle

The Pro Thottle can be used with any joystick