DescentBB

Well, I don't know how many of you still actually play this game, but I'm assuming if you're in the "multiplayer" forum, you probably do. I haven't in a while because of time constraints, but also partially because of the poor shape the D3tl is in, because the D3tl really was the reason I still played. Competitive team play is what kept the game, despite its faults, fun for me.

But the D3tl has gradually been slipping...to a point where it's pretty much dead. If we want to keep D3 alive (and I use alive loosely because online D3 is pretty much dead), we've got to fix the D3tl.

Here's what I suggest:

1. First we need to get ahold of Roncli. I don't know where he is or what has been going on with him, but I think if he's not going to be around to work the D3tl, then someone should step up and take his place. We need someone to oversee, regulate, set up and update tournaments, because the current MODs cannot do that. Which brings me to my next point.

2. Needs to be updated WEEKLY. Matches pile up. The last update was January 7th, that's three weeks ago.

3. No more clan boycotting. The community is small and shrinking, we cannot have teams boycotting other teams. I'm not even going to bother trying to be vague about this, because everyone knows who I'm talking about. ROX and RIP have to start playing D3k. Hostile has to put aside his differences with Crown and play. RIP needs to put their egos aside and play. If you guys really hate each other that much, just don't type during the game or something...but you've got to play to spark interest in this game again. I have already made my comments about this in the NHB thread that BFDD posted. Speaking of D3k...

4. I hate to say it, but D3k is too big. Every time a talented free agent D3er becomes available, D3k scoops him up. They've pretty much got every talented player in D3 who isn't already on a team. And not that I don't understand why people would want to join D3k; they're a laid back group of guys and girls who have fun and don't take things too seriously. But the fact remains that a league can't survive when there's only 2 dominant teams, (Rox and D3k) and its even WORSE when these teams won't play each other. If we want to spark interest in the d3tl again, we've got to have more teams, and have teams that can compete without getting annhilated every time. Rookies can be trained with time, but you can't start a competitive team without at least a few veteran pilots who can hold their own or else the team keeps losing, gets discouraged and loses interest, and quits. It just won't work. It wouldn't be fair to just start cutting people, but if you look at the additions made to the D3k roster in the last couple months and compare them to every other team in the league, you'll see how many great pilots they've picked up recently.

If you can think of anything more, add it here. I've been busy and unable to play D3 lately, but hopefully in the next few months here I'll be back and ready to play again, and until then I'm willing to take some time and help rebuild the D3tl.

Problem with "arranged" matches is you play to win. If you have a clan with more newbies than vet's, they will lose all the time if the opposing team plays with all vets just to win. This make sit boring and impossible for the newbies to enjoy the game.

I don't play matches or in clans for this fact. I play D3 cause of the fun. Not to always win.

I know I'm not contributing to this thread but I just needed to state this so people might be more interested in playing and and maybe clan members would think about playing for fun instead of always playing to win.

"4. I hate to say it, but D3k is too big. Every time a talented free agent D3er becomes available, D3k scoops him up. They've pretty much got every talented player in D3 who isn't already on a team."

this is true, but everyone has always made it out to be that we "steal members" and take all of these people because we want to "pick on" other teams. while this may be true to a small extent - i am one of the bigger jesters in d3 and i love when people get worked up and act like a fool - we don't take members away from teams or recruit out of spite. people who join D3k do so because they want to be a part of our team, for whatever reason. If we feel someone is a good fit, we won't turn them down because another team cries (and believe me, they do).

stop crying and make your team more appealing! we reject 9 of 10 applicants, and have had a few teams requesting a merger that we have denied recently, yet somehow we "take everybody." is it our fault everyone who is a free agent comes to us first?

however, we're willing to put the crying behind us and help the D3TL out. we've lost a few of our top pilots this week precisely because of this problem, and consequently the reason for ROX boycotting us is no longer valid. but do they lift the boycott? of course not. we'll overlook that. we don't even want to play RIP because we all know that during a match with them if they are not saying it to us, they are saying it to each other in private that so and so is using this hack, and he is using that hack. we're willing to overlook that too.

this team is the target of more jealousy than i have ever seen towards any team in any game. we're willing to ignore it and just play whoever wants to, whenever we can get pilots to play. however i fear that it will be in vain; i just don't see enough of the competitive team's members getting over their hurt ego's and silly paranoia long enough to help us put some life back into the D3TL.

if it happens, great. if not, i won't be surprised.

p.s. neutrino, how about we set up a D3TL match?

I really think the man tried to be very nuetral in what he said. Try to look at this from a 3rd person or an outsiders point of view Kur. Take the team names out of this and look at it overall. There are only 3 teams that have talent, the rest cant even score a point on them and it makes them feel like they dont even belong in this game because they arent worth spit. It creates alot of frustration which is causing poor sportsmanship. I was very guilty of this myself and regret it, but the damage is done. The real question is how do we fix it? or make the poor teams feel like they can at least compete without knowing its a shutout before the match even starts, ya know give them a little pride to push forward.

[]Competitive team play is what kept the game, despite its faults, fun for me.[/]
Competitive team play is also more or less what killed the D3TL. If someone today told me that I could personally save the D3TL and bring more teams and "competitive team play" back, I would refuse. Fools that think competition is fun need to be reminded how much they ★■◆● when they lose a game. I didnt join D3k to be competeitive and when D3k joined the D3TL it wasnt to compete with other teams, I joined to have fun, D3k joined to play games and have fun doing it. This is a freaking game, competition is irrelevant, play it to have fun not compare your pathetic internet skills to everyone else.

OKTHXBYE!

And the hostile attitudes begin - Cuda is out

I don't think speaking your mind could be considered Hostility, but anyway, I wish their was a simple resolution for this but.... oh wait their is What's it really gonna hurt Hos? At least give some thought to the idea. Pride can be your worst enemy

yah breaking up D3k sounds like a plan to me. I'll just stop flying with guys i've been friends with for years just to make other teams happy.

(A large number of whom we do not like, and the feeling is mutual)

<font face="Arial" size="3">...It wouldn't be fair to just start cutting people, but if you look at the additions made to the D3k roster in the last couple months and compare them to every other team in the league, you'll see how many great pilots they've picked up recently.</font>

Not to downplay some of our newer members elite skillz. I asked on PXO who the best members of D3k were, all of the players that were suggested have been in D3k for at least 2 years.

A large portion of our members were pretty much newbies when they joined, gooberman is a prime example, so is bah and myself for that matter. Getting the best pilots has never been the point, we like someone and we let them in, skill really isnâ??t that big of an issue here.

-Krom

what? you guys think i got in becuase of my skillz?
but letrs not turn this into another d3k vs. d3 thread.

-----

maybe we could start a smalle,r seperate league, we could take, exapmple team NuB1 and split them around with the better teams - i.e. say... D3k vs. ROX in a 4v4, you could have 4 NuBs, 2 d3k, 2 rox? but somehow i can see that as way too much of a hassle.

we allc ould start training sessions again, when NuB first started there were 2-3 a week! that'll get the nubs up and going again. and d3k isnt the biggest team, look at the size of RIP, and for the best part they are 80% top players.

<i> "This is a freaking game, competition is irrelevant, play it to have fun not compare your pathetic internet skills to everyone else."
</i>

this statement is so true, should be in the headline of d3tl.

remember the fun you all had when you played d3 online the very first time? dang i remember it. did not care about ping or loss, ships flown, weapons used, levels played, what players in, server settings, win or loss. it was all about fun and it was so addicting, wish that time would come back.

come on guys, play the game.

I think what Beo is saying is true to a certain extent, but the trouble isnâ??t that all the talent is on a couple of teams, itâ??s that there isnâ??t enough talent left to go around. The only way the D3TL is going to be saved is if some of the talented people who used to play come back to the game and start playing again. The trouble is that itâ??s not â??competitiveâ?

If you fail to see d3k's enthusiasm for this effort, it is probably because of the numerous failures that have preceded it.

I remember a while back I proposed a 2on2 tournament on the d3tl in which two teams match up. Like D3k/Von vs Rox/NT, etc, for a match each team would field 1/4 of the total players. That idea was shot down miserably but would have allowed the mixing of skill in regular games. In fact every idea d3k has come up with has been shot down miserably. The only idea that other teams accept and agree on is the break down of d3k in general. How come such a calling isnâ??t asked of ROX?


How come you arn't calling on birdseye to join a team, or Vander, or barry, or even Nirvana. With the exception of bah, and perhaps krom, none of d3k can touch these players. Yet people continuously blame d3k for hoarding the skill. Which the sad part is, in the history of d3 skill, d3k members just do not rank that high on the ladder.

Asking for us to desolve because of it is a joke.

This is solved simply enough.

Why not host four quarterly 4v4 double elimination tournaments with teams of 6 players each that are randomly selected from any team. You could do something like

Quarter 1 : Team Anarchy
Quarter 2 : CTF
Quarter 3 : Instareap
Quarter 4 : Entropy

All the players that are interested can sign up; the TD can rank them with an Advanced, Intermediate, or Beginner ranking (privately so as not to bruise any egos) and then make sure there is an even (or at least as even as possible) distribution of skill to each team.

Every three months you switch up the teams to keep things fresh.

End result :

You get a series of shorter tournaments (instead of the ridiculously long D3TLT) with a really level playing field - one in which every team has a shot.

Players will have to work with some NEW teammates, learn each other's strengths and weaknesses and maybe after flying with someone for a few months actually they become a little more friendly toward one another.

Maybe people will see their old rivals in a new light after making a tourney run with them, and they'll even have the fun of competing against longstanding teammates.

I mean, if it's all about fun, then why not? There's no long-lasting team rivalries or egos to get in the way with some tourney temp-teams.

that also involves breaking D3k up, and that's just not something we're willing to do.

I don't know what else we can do, we're not about to kick people off of the team because other teams don't like our roster. But i do have an interesting proposal, although i'm not really expecting it to work simply because of the work involved:

How many of you guys have played an EA Sports game? They have a cool feature in their season modes called the Fantasy Draft. You take a set number of captains and pick your team from the players available. If we had a bunch of people sign up for this - and we could keep all of our teams together outside of the new league - but play with our "just for the new league team" it would bring back that competition, and it might be fun. I think we could easily form 6 to 8 teams this way and offer an alternative to the D3TL.

This is where we get to the problems. When I was in school, I had alot of sex. That means I didn't learn much, and hence I can't code my way out of a wet paper bag. That mean's we'd have to start a project and get people to donate time, we'd need a server and a webpage and etc etc, and face it, how many people out there would be willing to give this a try? (or any other new idea for that matter?)

That's our community's problem, the majority would rather sit around and ★■◆● about the way things are rather than do something about it.

I'd be more than willing to donate some of my time for something like this, but I wouldn't be of much use until after it was already built.

<font face="Arial" size="3">How many of you guys have played an EA Sports game? They have a cool feature in their season modes called the Fantasy Draft. You take a set number of captains and pick your team from the players available. If we had a bunch of people sign up for this - and we could keep all of our teams together outside of the new league - but play with our "just for the new league team" it would bring back that competition, and it might be fun. I think we could easily form 6 to 8 teams this way and offer an alternative to the D3TL</font>

this is exactly what i just said. im not talking about breaking up any teams, just fielding some temp-teams for specific tournaments.

oh, sorry. i skimmed

With teams like D3K taking away all of the good players from teams such as MOB who would benefit more from gaining a few players, how could you possibly expect the D3TL to survive if theres one team whoring the avaiable player pool while hurting the smaller teams?

People dont feel compeled to play because the skill/newbie ratio is skewed. There are some teams who loose every time and dont feel encouraged to keep on playing.

So what can you expect if you have those dominating factors affecting the D3TL?

I'm so sick of hearing about how D3k hogs all the skilled pilots. There are pilots on several other teams that could beat 90% of the D3k roster. Did you idiots ever think that people join a team because they share common ground with the other members? D3k has asked me to join their team for a year now and I've hesitated because I thought there was a chance that Team X could be revived. However, in the past year, I've played more, laughed more, talked more sh!t, and had more fun with these guys than I have had with the guys on my own team. My joining D3k was an inevitable progression. And recently, I've gotten to know a lot of them even better. Folks, I can assure you, D3k doesn't recruit because of skill. As a matter of fact, we've refused membership to some totally badass mothefvckers because of personality conflict.

Anyone who knows our roster and has been around this community for any length of time can tell you that we have a very diverse team. But the common ground is what? Skill? I think not. It's a love for the game and a desire to have fun. That's what makes D3k a great team. The fact that we have fun being around each other. My teammates are some cool people and I'm proud to be associated with them.

Since I joined D3k I've gotten so much **** from people. They all ask me, "why would you join D3k!!!?" Well here's my answer. D3k is a very loose knit team where the members are allowed to express themselves without censorship or restrictions, rules or regulations. We don't have a Grand Poobah or an Exhalted Ruler, it's democracy in its purest form. And whats more, these people love to laugh and have fun. Our team is virtually unadulterated by team politics and similar bullsh1t.

Why has our team grown so large? Well, I'm the resident D3k noob, but I'll offer an opinion. There are a lot of really cool people in this community that have gravitated to one another in the form of an awesome Descent 3 clan. We all like each other and enjoy our association with one another. You won't break this team up, I assure you. We'd quit the D3TL before we'd break up the team.

As far as reviving the D3TL is concerned. Well, I think the primary reason that this league is failing is the ridiculous blackballing by ROX and RIP. Hostile, I know a lot of this has been directed towards you. I don't know you real well, but, what I do know of you is all good. I think you're a good dude from what I can see and I encourage you to bring your issues with our team out in the open and see if we can settle our differences in a civilized fashion. DwnUndr, I do know you. I flew with the RIPs for 2 years and can say that, for the most part, the core membership of RIP are some really nice, down to earth guys. A bit conservative for my tastes, but good people nonetheless. I want to say that from my perspective(someone who's been on both sides of the fence), DwnUndr, you are sadly mistaken about the hacking. I've seen it first hand. Some of it can be blamed on internet connections, but some of these guys are just that damn good. I was in a game last night with one other D3k member and 3 other pilots who I can say are in the top 10 players on this globe. And yeah, there is another level to this game. It's absolutely amazing to watch a guy like Birdseye or Suncho make moves. My point is, RIP, just because someone beats you badly in a game, doesn't mean they're hacks. I know also that some of the RIPs dont like the way that some of the D3k pilots have smacktalked in matches. To that I say, grow some balls. Smacktalking and competition go hand in hand. If ya cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen. The RIPs are not innocent of lambastering people either. How about the entire team following Lord Draco around in PXO with the nick Draco_Packs_Fudge? Fun? Yeah. Smacktalking? To say the least. RIP, if you love this game and want to see this league continue, speak up. If you're satisfied to stay in your own little world and disassociate yourselves from the rest of the community. Say nothing and let the world keep spinnin'. The ball is in your court, ROX and RIP. What say you?

Long live D3k.

Breaking up D3K, ROX or RIP is not the answer, we saw that with Ants and WP - it solved nothing. Seperating people who like to play together only reverses the problem not solves it. I think we need to find a way to let the other teams feel like they are participating in the game. Is it really nessesary to have shutout matches with them every time. It generates poor sportsmanship. Play with them in a manner that will increase there skills not demorolize them and turn them in to winners.

personally, since i've been in D3k (about a year now) i've never flown in a match on a stacked team. we let anyone who wants to play play, there is no skill requirement for matches from us. i don't know what more we can do to make people happy. We're not gonna shut up, we're not gonna lose on purpose, it would be changing who we are and then the game wouldn't be worth playing anymore, because it wouldn't be fun. we can tone it down a little sure, we will if it would get us anywhere. unfortunately it hasn't, so why bother?

I think you guys misunderstand me. First off, I'm not D3k bashing, in fact D3k is one of the only teams left that I really actually like and respect. Goob, Krom, Kurupt...in fact I don't think there's a person on that roster that I can honestly say I dislike. And if you've forgotten, I was once in D3k for quite some time, so I can understand why people want to join that team. I'm not suggesting you break up the team, and I understand why you wouldnt want to because you're all friends and you all have gotten used to playing together. The point I was trying to make was that the skill pool is getting shallower and shallower all the time, and losing is no fun, no matter what anyone says.

Krom, you cannot tell me that you have more fun in a blowout win than you do in a tight, closely matched game. It's no fun to win 300-10 every time, but when you get a match that comes along (like the old WP matches and whatnot) where its like 19-19 in Halcyon and both teams have each other's flag and there's two minutes left on the timer...that's when the blood starts pumpin. Those tight matches are the best kind. And if you tell me otherwise, you're a liar my friend But those kind of matches are getting fewer and farer between...and the fact is nobody on the D3tl can compete with D3k right now except for ROX.

In any case, I hope I didn't rub anyone the wrong way, and if I did I am sorry; hurt feelings and bruised egos isn't going to help us. I really do want to get the D3tl back up and active, and I know I'm not the only one.

PS: vander, bash, barry, nirvana and birds please join my teaaaam!!!!!!!!111111

In all the games I have played with D3k, we have only had a few blowouts and they were all CTF games. It took a lot of stratigy and teamwork to accomplish the blowouts, it wasnt like it was easy. I have never played a TA game to 300-10, and I dont think there are players online that suck that bad. Even WR could at least do 300-30!

Beo, you have to keep in mind that the reason I play the game is to relax, high tension games are exausting not relaxing. I enjoy a tough fight to the death match as much as anyone else. But when we go up against a much weaker team I just put my feet up, lean back in the chair and fly around with the team getting stuff done. I dont live for easy matches but I wont complain how bored I am when I am in one, unlike some people I know (Which honestly really angers me). If you say you do not enjoy a relaxing easy going game then you are a bigger liar then I my friend.

Breaking up D3k is one very bad idea.
First it will do nothing to help other teams or save the D3TL since most of us would just quit playing and leave the D3 community. Sure, you would solve some of the skill level divide by dumping a bunch of skilled players but I dont think thats what you had in mind.
Second, D3k has very little to do with the D3TL anymore, we play halo more then we play Descent³. Break us up, little or nothing on the D3TL changes. We moved on to other games because we arent about the game, we are about the group of people we have.
Third, almost all of the pilots who are in D3k are in this team because THEY ASKED US to let them join, we hardly ever ask someone to join the team. All you would accomplish by breaking up this team is there would be fewer players online, and more anger and resentment from the ones who still are online.

IMO any move now to fix or save the D3TL is too little too late, things are in motion that were started years ago and theres no way that this community will be able to stop them.

-Krom

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial">quote:</font><HR><font face="Arial" size="3">
Smacktalking and competition go hand in hand. If ya cant take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
</font><HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I've been saying that for years

Krom, I agree that sometimes its nice to relax with an easy win, but I'm not saying that easy games are bad, I'm just saying that no competition at all is boring. I think you and I just play the game for different reasons, which is fine, but I'm a competitor and I play because I like hard fought, close games. I feel that the D3tl was intended to be a league where these types of games were encouraged. Who wants to join a league where there are two good teams and everyone else gets dominated? As I said before, I'm a competitor in everything I do, its just the way I am by nature, and losing is always bitter; people dont have fun losing all the time. But I'd rather lose by 1 point and have a fun time playing a close game than win by 100 or 50. As far as the D3tl being beyond help; it is by no means beyond help! It only needs a few changes, and most of those changes are changes in attitude. Less ego and thicker skin. Less talk and politics, more playing. It needs to be reorganized, updated a little...it needs some more active players, and I think if we can revive the D3tl more people will come back. But really all of this right now is just talk because nothing can happen until we find out where Roncli is. That's the only thing stopping us right now.

I dont mean to bash any team for whatever reason, that is not my purpose and if I came off that way then im sorry.

I agree that breaking up teams to form new ones is not the answer.

The game is so old and people are loosing interest and moving on. It happens because thats how it is. I guess some of us are to stubborn to let that happen and wish it was the good old days. And there are some people who just dont get it.