DescentBB

All of these vermin are currently on Texas Death Row, all are illegal aliens from Mexico, all of of them brutally murdered someone in Texas, and all will be put to sleep in due time because Texas doesn't bend over backwards to cater to murderers.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... t/leal.jpg (Must Read!! Very, very disturbing.)

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... rciaht.jpg

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... /ramos.jpg

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... oriano.jpg

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... tamayo.jpg

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... fierro.jpg

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... /plata.jpg

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/statistics/ ... dellin.jpg

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/resendizangel.htm

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/cardenasruben.htm

Vermin like this should never had been in our country to begin with!!! I still can't believe we put water jugs along the border to make it easier for illegal aliens to enter our country. Ridiculous. We welcome all LEGAL immigrants who obey our laws and immigration procedures. We should welcome ILLEGAL aliens with an assault rifle- not a damn drivers license and a dental plan.

Agreed. Keep the bastards the hell out. I dont see why anyone would want to make things easier for illegal immigrants. If anything, we should be implementing things to make it harder for illegals period.

What's the point ? I bet you can find a lot more like this done by US citizens.

The point is that a 16 year old girl wouldn't be found dead with a 2x4 protruding from her snatch if we stopped messing around and took real action.

Any other questions, captain obvious?

Choose your group to pick on here. How about "Child Killed by Babysitter" ? Creating public daycare could have prevented the death of 38 children in 2002.

Of the 43 rape involving homicides in 2002, 5 involved "Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.)". I doubt that the circumstances were less appaling than the one you posted. Even the stats don't list citizenship, I also doubt that most of them involved illegal aliens. How would have tightening up the border prevented those ? Or the other 1,344 killings of below 18 yrs olds in 2002 ?

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Grendel,
They are all, in fact, illegals.

http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/stat/nationalities.htm

Let's take the illegals out of the equation:
The point is that a 16 year old girl wouldn't be found dead with a 2x4 protruding from her snatch if we stopped messing around and took real action.
To keep on topic, action means cracking down on illegals. To be less specific, action means cracking down on all criminals.
The fact that they are illegals just adds fuel to the fire.

The idea that public daycare could have prevented the death of 38 children is not comparable, as far as I know, daycares aren't illegal.
Illegals shouldn't be here in the first place, and, if INS did their job we could have saved 9 people from death and one 16 year old girl from being raped and killed by an *ILLEGAL* animal with a 2x4 fetish.

The target for this thread is illegals, Grendel. If you'd like to start a thread titled "how to prevent murders by Americans" I'd be happy to help keep that thread alive.


B-

Every murder is done by a criminal. In principle I can agree w/ the INS not doing its job, I just don't like pulling gruesome murders and creating a cause-effect connection.

this seems like a 'stop all illegal aliens from coming in becuase they might be a murderer' type of argument.

too close to racial profiling IMO.

No, Ferno..
This is a 'stop all illegals from coming in because we provide a legal way and they should use it' type argument. and, 'if INS did their job there wouldn't be 9 dead and a 16 year old with a 2x4 sticking out of her' argument.
It really can't get any more simple than that.

Only one of them graduated High School. Why not blame the education system? Seems more plausible then the INS.

No Ferno I think we should stop white Canasians too.

Goob,
I don't care what level of schooling was completed, nor do I care what .. heh

actually.. I don't care.

Edit-
Goob, the bottom line is that 10 illegals killed American citizens and if the first crime of illegally entering the U.S was prevented as it should be, the second crime could not have taken place.
You're starting to scare me, Goob..I followed the thread about the watering holes for the Mexicans trying to come across illegally and I must say, I have a difficult time feeling responsible for anyone who makes poor choices and ends up dead. They are not forced to come here and if they want to come that badly there are legal channels they can follow. The fact is, they don't care about our laws and they've proved that by being illegals in the first place.

Next thing you know you're going to want donations to build an illegal alien memorial in downtown San Diego. Something to pay tribute to those brave mexicans who scaled fences and waded through 2' deep raging streams to enter America illegally!

Agreed on the 'The INS should have done their job' part.

I suppose one solution would be to see if someone's an illegal, give them a month to get their green card, and if they haven't got (or in the process of getting, have to show paperwork that you are indeed getting one) that card in that time, round them up and kick em out.

Ferno,
there are already legal channels to go through to get a work visa or green card. How about enforcing those instead of rewarding them for being here illegally.
What's wrong with those channels? Why impliment more?

For those of you who are going to respond by saying "because obviously the current channels don't work".. wrong! The current channels will work if they're enforced.

I didn't realize you already had something implemented.

I don't know how things down there work exactly, so thanks for the heads-up.

Chances are Barry, that these people would have killed someone eventually even if they were turned away at the boarder.

So, just to be on the level, you arenâ??t upset that someone is dead, you are upset that an American is dead. If you were truly upset that someone was dead then you wouldn't be advocating turning them away as the solution. Your solution probably leaves a Mexican dead instead of an American; there is no difference to me.

Is there a tragedy within this thread? Definitely. Is it that people are coming into the states illegally? heh, no.

"watering holes"

It's not a reward, it's preventing death!

If I see a car crash, I will go to their aid. Even if I knew the guy was drunk! If someone is dieing in the desert, I will give them water! Let that philosophy scare you all you want, but be warned, it is Christian!

You know your memorial point is ridiculous, no need to comment further.

Gooberman wrote:It's not a reward, it's preventing death!

Apparantly some of those deaths should have happened. (it just took an additional death to prove it)

I'm not saying anything about the water stations, I know there are thousands more innocents than there are people like these men. It would nice, though, if the U.S. gov't could manage the people entering the country. I don't really think their legality/illegality has much (if anything) to do with their crimes. I doubt the border guys would have refused to let them in, and I doubt the fact that they where illegal would change their decision to kill/rape someone.

I just don't get how you can expect to track down illegals without feeding the beast of burden you bring up in another thread:

Fusion pimp wrote:We're restricted like never before with big brother watching over us. Protecting us.Freedoms are being taken while government powers are being added, in secret. Double, triple even quadruple taxed in many cases. I could go on and on and on and on and on....

How long are folks going to carry on as if everything is okay? Heads burried. At what point are people going to wake-up and realize just how far we have fallen in such short amount of time. More importantly, what, short of a complete revolt can be done to change it? I fear we're past the point of no return. I see things turning very sour once people have decided they've had enough.
The way I see it, we're either going to continue on being a people afraid of government instead of the other way around, or, civil uprising. There really is nothing in between.

fringe B.

How do you propose finding illegals so you can stop them without infringing upon the rights that you think are being taken away?

You can't have it both ways...

So, just to be on the level, you arenâ??t upset that someone is dead, you are upset that an American is dead. If you were truly upset that someone was dead then you wouldn't be advocating turning them away as the solution. Your solution probably leaves a Mexican dead instead of an American; there is no difference to me.

"The guy's an animal so we might as well let him be an animal here instead of Mexico".. right?
The truth is, I don't really give 2 turds what happens in Mexico, that's Mexico's problem. We have enough of our own problems to worry about.
My concern is for Americans.
If you're that concerned, Goob.. why not quit your job, find a place mid-way between Mexico and Texas/California and prepare a bed, bath and hot meal for them too. I mean, that would be the Christian thing to do, right? That would actually be *More*(heh!) biblical than just helping them with water..

Tsss. Don't preach Christianity to me, Goob. You demonstrated in the past that you know very little about it.

"watering holes"

It's not a reward, it's preventing death!

It is enabling them to continue and even encouraging them. How does it become my responsibility to prevent their death when they could have prevented it from the begining? How does a poor choice on their part constitute an emergency on mine?
Don't want blended balls? don't put em in a blender. How much simpler could it be, Goob?

If someone is dieing in the desert, I will give them water!

I would too, but i'm not going to strategically place water spouts in various locations to assist these people in commiting *CRIMES*!!!!
It is a freeking CRIME, Goob!
Let's give ban robbers money on request, I mean, it would save lives.

Look, if you can't see how providing them watering spots enables and encourages and if INS did their job this would not have happened then you're further gone than I realized and there's really nothing else I can say.

Tman,
It's really simple, Tman. Keep them out and we don't need to worry about providing them rights or tracking them down.

so simple to keep them out?

Just wondering, did you ever happen to talk with Ages when he was still around? His job is a border patrol agent in Texas. I got the impression that patrolling the border was not "simple" and that's putting it lightly.

And that's only the Southern border. The fact is, the east & west coast borders are so easy to penetrate, all it takes is a pleasure boat packed to the gills and landing on any of a number of deserted beaches.

Also - there are probably over 5 million illegals in the country already. How do you propose getting those out?

Here in canada, mumble hte word refugee, and you are put up in a hotel room and given a welfare check until your claim is processed.

Which takes minimum two years.

After which you have the right to demand to stay.



I wish we would stop taking money from people who earn it and giving it to people who don't.

The truth is, I don't really give 2 turds what happens in Mexico, that's Mexico's problem. We have enough of our own problems to worry about.
My concern is for Americans.

And they say Americans are self-centered! I am glad we got off the death â??guilt tripâ?? thoughâ?¦.

If you're that concerned, Goob.. why not quit your job, find a place mid-way between Mexico and Texas/Californiaâ?¦.

I already live mid-way between Mexico Texas and California! I am currently taking some time off before I go to grad school and am working at an underprivileged school here, does that count?

Tsss. Don't preach Christianity to me, Goob. You demonstrated in the past that you know very little about it.

I was raised catholic. Having gone to communion classes, confirmation classes, and church every Sunday until college, there is no doubt in my mind that I could go tit-for tat on the details with you, find me in chat. If you are referring to my actions, *shrug*. You may even remember that when I first came to this BB I was very religious. I know some do.

I would too, but i'm not going to strategically place water spouts in various locations to assist these people in commiting *CRIMES*!!!!
It is a freeking CRIME, Goob!

So, heh, you will give someone water if you are out in the middle of the desert and see someone dieing, (how often are you in the middle of the desert Barry?), but the idea of providing water to someone whom you know will be out there is incomprehensible? Heh!


You said you read the other thread, so you know, for all I care you could have a freakin INS agent manning it and they would still come. It's not about letting illegals into the country, it's about not letting them die. It is about not letting them get to the point where they drink their urine until they die, or hang themselves to avoid dehydration with the empty water jugs at their feet. Did you read the book I suggested in the other thread? Do you care to understand this issue or are you just blindly going to bat for your team?


Do they commit a crime, I guess. One that yours and my ancestors committedâ?¦. So Iâ??m not going to let them die for it. Send them back? Ok. Let them die for only seeking a better life? No.

Like you said, you would give them water if you saw them; there is no doubt in my mind that you would change your position on this issue if you took more time trying to understand the reasons for it.

Arizona is just a boarder state to you, it's my state to me. And I don't want it littered with human bodies so that you can be "concerned for Americans."

Gooberman wrote: Do they commit a crime, I guess. One that yours and my ancestors committedâ?¦

Looks like SOMEONE has guilted you into believing that you're somehow responsible for something that you never did...

If I felt responsible then I would be advocating that they have a right to come here.

Then why bring up our ancestors at all?

Shawn said:

"It's really simple, Tman. Keep them out "


Just as long as you are willing to pay for higher fruit and vegetable prices.

And they say Americans are self-centered! I am glad we got off the death â??guilt tripâ?? thoughâ?¦.

You can call it self-centered if you wish, but I prefer to call it self-preservation. My first priority is American safety and stability. Once we can provide that I have no problem at all helping anyone. Legally!

I already live mid-way between Mexico Texas and California! I am currently taking some time off before I go to grad school and am working at an underprivileged school here, does that count?

I applaud you, Good.. you're helping fellow Americans. Awesome!

I was raised catholic. Having gone to communion classes, confirmation classes, and church every Sunday until college, there is no doubt in my mind that I could go tit-for tat on the details with you, find me in chat. If you are referring to my actions, *shrug*. You may even remember that when I first came to this BB I was very religious. I know some do.

My bad. I don't remember that. I thought you were one of the anti-Christain guys throwing the Bible in my face. I apologize.

So, heh, you will give someone water if you are out in the middle of the desert and see someone dieing, (how often are you in the middle of the desert Barry?), but the idea of providing water to someone whom you know will be out there is incomprehensible? Heh!

I'm not in the middle of the desert because I'm smart enough to know that people don't belong in the middle of the desert, esp. without water.

You said you read the other thread, so you know, for all I care you could have a freakin INS agent manning it and they would still come. It's not about letting illegals into the country, it's about not letting them die. It is about not letting them get to the point where they drink their urine until they die, or hang themselves to avoid dehydration with the empty water jugs at their feet.

Goob, answer me this. Such a basic question that has continually been dodged.
Who made the choice to cross the desert illegally? With choices comes consequence, if you make poor choices terrible consequences generally follow. It wasn't my choice and it's not my responsibility.
Would I give a dying fellow water? sure.. would I just let him continue on his way illegally entering the states? No.

Here's a solution: Place water wherever you chose to help these poor, forced-to-come-to-the-states border jumpers, but man each station. That way they won't die and they won't get in. The problem is, they'll find an alternate route and the heart-bleeders will complain that there are not enough watering stations.

Did you read the book I suggested in the other thread? Do you care to understand this issue or are you just blindly going to bat for your team?

I didn't read the book and to be honest, I'm not interested. I'm not blindly following anyone and the issue is simple: Don't cross the desert(illegally) and you won't die.

Do they commit a crime, I guess. One that yours and my ancestors committedâ?¦. So Iâ??m not going to let them die for it. Send them back? Ok. Let them die for only seeking a better life? No.

Stealing bread because you need to eat still makes you a theif and a criminal. Fine, let them seek a better life, but do it legally! They're dying because they chose to cross a freeking desert with very little water. They are not victims nomatter how you slice it so quit making them appear that way.

Like you said, you would give them water if you saw them; there is no doubt in my mind that you would change your position on this issue if you took more time trying to understand the reasons for it.

I see things very black and white and the natural consequence that follows accordingly. I do not care their reason, we provide legal channels they can use.. use 'em.

Arizona is just a boarder state to you, it's my state to me. And I don't want it littered with human bodies so that you can be "concerned for Americans."

lol! Okay Mr. Drama. How many times have you walked our your door and found a dead Mexican? How many times have you seen a dead Mexican from the above mentioned problem? I'm sure the elevation of AZ is rapidy increasing due to the mexican bodies stacking.

B-

Brian,
There are plenty of legals that pick as well. I don't know the ratio and have no idea how to find out, otherwise I would.
Do you think that we're getting a break on prices anyway? I have a feeling that they're going to charge the maximun amount they can regardless of who picks what. Besides, the farmers aren't the ones who set the prices, it's the buyers and distributors. The farmers take whatever the going price is for their product.It's a very competetive market from what I'm told.
Also, I just recently found this out. The farmers pay by the amount picked and not by the hour and the rate of pay is the same regardless of who picks. The farmers I talked to said that they pay their guys very, very well since the job is so difficult and they want the laborers to be motivated since harvest time is so short. And, they want the good ones to return. They said that most of their guys come back year after year and they do everything they can to keep the good ones. The ag department and INS does regular checks of their workers too.

Fusion pimp wrote:The point is that a 16 year old girl wouldn't be found dead with a 2x4 protruding from her snatch if we stopped messing around and took real action.

And your strawberries, lettuce, tomatos, and other fruit, as well as every single new house I have ever seen built would become prohibitively expensive. Not to mention a significant number of your favorite resturants would simply close down.

What happened to that girl was horrific, there is no doubt about it, but cheap labor (illegals) does have it's place in this society.

Dedman,
I already addressed that in the post just above yours.