DescentBB

What do yall think about homeschooling? Good? Bad? Illegal?

I'm curious as to the purpose of your post

Just wanting to sound the waters, maybe see if a few people are interested in homeschooling, maybe find a good debate.

Home schooling it growing in popularity in the Province of B.C. Where I live. School districts even have support systems and material availible to help those home schooling their children to meet the provincial curriculum standards and the district recieves finacing from the government for each child registered in the program. Those who wish to work outside the provincial curriculum are pretty much on their own for material but are still expected to maintain the curriculum but enforcement is pretty much impossible.
Home schooling can make sense for many different types of children and for many reasons. The worst is so that the child is not exposed to "evil influences" and corrupted from the world view of his/her parents. I understand why this is done but it is better to teach your child to live in the real world and hold on to your values than to live in a cultural cave and avoid contact with anything judged "impure" by his/her parents. That is just my opinon of course.
Some kids just do not fit the public school mold. They are bullied or just can't learn without a system taylored to them alone rather than a room of 30 kids.
Private school is very expensive and if an intelegent parent has the time to dedicate to the child, home schooling can be very effective. Usually more so for a "abnormal" (I don't mean that in a bad sense) child than public school.
Public school is a shared experience though. A social group that may follow a child through life and probably a better preparation for university if that is the goal of the child. Many parent also lack the time and the skill to properly educate a child past the first few years of public school and some couldn't even get them past kindergarten.
So I guess it depends on the child and the circumstances. Good for some but not for the majority I suspect.

I have no problem with home schooling so long as the students still take standardized tests, and if they don't perform well enough they go into public.

My issue with homeschooling: there are things that people learn to deal with in school that arn't taught by the teachers. (dealing with bullies, for example, or general social skills) Homeschoolers can miss out on those things.

I've been homeschooled since first grade and am very glad that I have been.

My parents were able to give me customized cirriculum. They were able to pick what they wanted to use for each subject, whereas in public school or private school, you have to go by the book that they choose (and sometimes, the books are written poorly -- I'd know, we've went through a few books on a subject because they were written bad).

I also got to work in the morning and the daytime at the community college in the Cisco routers lab. I got to mess with them a lot, and that was when I was 15. My boss was also my professor, because I was taking Cisco networking classes at the same time.

Homeschoolers have no problems at all with general social skills. There was a statistics paper released a few years ago that stated that homeschoolers average 5.2 activities per week -- more than public schoolers. A large part of my research paper on homeschooling talked about socialization and the widespread view that people have about it. It is almost shown in a negative light, but that's really not the case. (I don't have the statistical paper handy, but I will get it; it also had some other information that may deem itself necessary in this thread)

I can attest to that fact, too -- I was in 4-H for two to three years, and was President of our club for quite a while. I took routing technology classes at college with much older people when I was 15, and I also worked with a 30 year old and had taugt him a lot of the stuff I was doing. There was also plenty of recreational activities, such as going to the pool, lake, playing football, etc. This doesn't include the time I spent with my neighbors, who went to public school.

I'd also like to add that when you are in public school, you really only socialize with those that are in the same grade as you. You don't socialize much with those younger or older than you. However, when you are homeschooled (and you are usually in a homeschooling group), you socialize with other homeschoolers with different ages in your group (our group had 140 families). When I was younger, I was socializing with young people, people my age, and people much older than me and I think that is a greater social experience than socializing with people the same age as you. Also, I've dealt with enough older bullies in my neighborhood -- I can give you the name of three of them who lived not three houses away from me. Sometimes it caused me a lot of grief. I also dealt with peer pressure even while homeschooling, so it's not like I wasn't able to experience any of that.

Also, in Florida, you must tell your county that you are homeschooling your children so that they do not mark them as truant. In middle school, homeschoolers, like everyone else, must take standardized tests. I did. When I was in high school, we didn't have to take them, but we did have to meet with a certified evaluator every year. The evaluator looked over the entire year of schooling and made sure that academic progress was made. They then let the county know that a certain homeschooled family is still active in their education.

Matt

It definitely shouldn't be made illegal, some people have to turn to homeschooling for justifyable reasons.

However, if there's no reason not to send your kid to school, I don't see a reason why he should be homeschooled.

Going to school is so much more than just learning stuff... To be honest, I didn't do jack sh!t at highschool, because I could manage to get through each class just fine without even opening a book. But school was socially very important, it was fun, it was engaging. There were things to organise, the highschool ball, the class weekends, the open-school-day. I helped the computer science teachers to use computers and manage the network. I discussed philosophy with the french teacher after hours. I even had drunk conversations with one of my english teachers at school (don't ask ).

I'll say that homeschooling is by no means a reason to fail socially, but it's definitely not better than regular school life either.

Also, there's the quality of the school to consider. You need a good school, not crappy ghetto ones. If all schools available to my child were worthless, I'd consider homeschooling as well. But fortunately, education hasn't yet gone completely to hell in this country

My wife and I have Home schooled all 8 of our children. none of them have ever attended public school. my 4 oldest have now graduated. all being tested in the upper 85% of the nations students. I agree there must be "some" form of testing. but I totally disagree with having a mandatory ciriculum ( sp? ) I can look it up if you need but studies have shown that home schooled kids are better educated, and more well rounded than public school kids. they dont spend they're days with other kids learning each others bad habits, they spend alot of their days with adults learning to act more responsable. My kids have taken many xtra classes such at Art, Music, Dance, computer science. and a few others that my wife could tell you. in Oregon home schoolers have the same access to after school activities as public scool kids. my 2nd son ven played on the school football team. home schooling is a Very good thing IMHO

i can see how it would be very beneficial in an academic sense but i think it leaves a lot to be desired in the social arena. i mean how long can you depend on mommas teat?

Why the heck would homeschooling need to be illegal? =P I voted for the middle one.

I always thought that people who go to homeschools (especially those who claim to be Christians) tend to be sheltered. I think public school is a good test of whether a child will choose God over evolution or whatever. It was for me.

I wish homeschooling was an option when I was in school.

Many of my CPS kids are "home schooled". Basically this translates into hiding the child from anyone to whom they could make an outcry about the nightmare hell in which they live. It also means they are constantly around their abuser. It also means they don't get shiz for an education because the caregiver couldn't care less if they can read or write. I see it over and over.

This is not to dis all homeschooling or put down anyone who benefited from it. I'm just saying i don't like it in general and don't trust it. When I'm assessing a CPS report and hear "home schooled", flags are being raised and buzzers going off.

I don't think that you can make the argument against homeschooling that it deters social growth. Hell, I went to normal parochial school for twelve years, and I'm pretty much a social failure . From what I've heard, there are many groups of homeschoolers that get together for activities, field trips, and the like. Plus, some school districts allow home-schooled kids to compete in school sports. I'm in favor of the government promoting homeschooling in terms of availability of curricular materials, guidelines, help for parents, etc.

I think it's safe to say that 95%-99% (at the very LEAST) of kids are legitimately homeschooled. It's very, VERY rare to find someone that is actually using homeschooling as a screen to mistreat their kids. Hey, you could say I've been mistreated--I've been spanked, I've been yelled at, I've had to do chores (GASP), I've been forced to go places I didn't want to go, and hey, if most adults had my life, I have no doubt they'd be screaming bloody murder a lot of the time. AND I LOVE IT! Sure, homeschooling parents tend to be rougher on their kids. They can see firsthand what lazy little slobs their kids tend to be unless they are forced to work. Thus, they make their kids work! They actually punish the little dear if he/she doesn't get the work done! THERE IS A PENALTY FOR DOING WRONG, and this gets beat into the kid's head. That is a good thing. I don't know you or your situation palzon, but 100% of the homeschoolers I know (and probably 99% of the country's homeschoolers) love homeschooling and would do anything to stay homeschooled. When I'm being truculent Mom often threatens me with going to a public school--and it's an effective threat. Who cares about learning a new thing every day? I want to learn hundreds of new things every day!

Every homeschooled kid I ever met or heard about secondhand was educated so much better than public school goers it's shameful. Especially since they are often in a family with two working parents.

The need for teachers and the inability to pay them really well ensures crappy teachers will plauge public schools until the entire system is uprooted, and they will bludgeon children into fearing thought and harbouring self-doubt until that happens.

As long as the parent makes sure the child has a lot of outside activities, it's fine.

Anyone know if partial homeschooling is possible? I'd like to teach my kids government/economics in high school ;p

Gooberman wrote:I have no problem with home schooling so long as the students still take standardized tests, and if they don't perform well enough they go into public.

Yes they do Goob. We homeschooled our daughter for 3 years as the schools in our local area are crap. It's not super expensive and most grades are good. There are a lot of safeguards in place. The attractive thing about homeschooling is that there is not a ton of gov. regulation. I would hesitate to homeschool through the highschool grades but there are those who can do this.

It was our choice not to, and that's a cool thing.

Birdseye wrote:As long as the parent makes sure the child has a lot of outside activities, it's fine.

Most kids ...at least the kids in our neighborhood. .. ar not lacking for activity .. lol .. rugrats runnin all over the place. There are number of groups for homeschooling parents and kids for activities and other stuff sponcered by the cities recreational program and hosted , er, run, by parents. It's really pretty cool. The Portland metro area has a very large homeschooling "community". I realize that many areas are not this lucky.

Don't you have to eventually half-home-school anyways? Like how many parents can still teach their kids Spanish or Calculus?

Gooberman wrote:I have no problem with home schooling so long as the students still take standardized tests, and if they don't perform well enough they go into public.

Hate to break it to you, but standardized tests are completely pointless, they prove nothing.

Duper, there is a thing called the Link-up Homechool network here in O.C. that is run in a scoll that the county has closed down where you can get some of those things that you dont have the ability to teach at home taught by other parents. its free. contact me by e-mail if you want the details

Every single person I have met that has been home schooled is far above those that have been subject to the public school's cirriculum.

This one family from my town, the Ketchums, were all home schooled (until high school I believe) and they were some of the most brilliant kids I had ever met. They knew Greek, they knew Latin, one of them (the beautiful Ardys) was a brilliant artist. Brahm is literally a genius; in 9th grade he was taking classes at the college in my town in advanced calculus, and was, bar none, at the top of his class. Cene is into politics, and a leader at his college.

All in all, they made me jealous that I wasn't home schooled. But then again, I think your parents have to be willing and able to do these types of things. Not everyone's are.

Public schools are also dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. 'Advanced' classes (which, today, are about on par with the normal classes of 10 years ago) aren't always available.

I think the dispute over whether home-schooled children in general are lacking socialization or a solid education has been settled. Any statistics I've ever seen have shown that those who are home-schooled perform better on essentially any margin. Having been home-schooled myself for the vast majority of my K-12 education, I can say that virtually no one I knew who was home-schooled was lacking socialization. Examples of children who are for all purposes locked in the house all day to do schoolwork are extremely isolated.

Really, it's just an example of the government desiring control over all aspects of people's lives. IMO, it's "public education" that's a joke. As much money as they continue to funnel into the public schools each year, you'd think the results would be better academically. Heck, I ever discovered a few days ago that many of the public school buses don't even have AC! I'm not saying all public schools are useless, but in terms of "bang for the buck," most are quite lacking. I don't even believe government should be providing "free" public education in the first place, but that's for another debate.

Don't you have to eventually half-home-school anyways? Like how many parents can still teach their kids Spanish or Calculus?

heh, some parents (like my mom) speak Spanish, so... As for those who don't, I would say that's part of the beauty of home-schooling. Rather than being trapped into the resources a public school has, you are free to pursue other individuals who can tutor those subjects, form co-ops, or if the children are old enough, attend college or community college courses.

Anyone know if partial homeschooling is possible? I'd like to teach my kids government/economics in high school ;p

Word.

Stryker wrote:I think it's safe to say that 95%-99% (at the very LEAST) of kids are legitimately homeschooled. It's very, VERY rare to find someone that is actually using homeschooling as a screen to mistreat their kids. Hey, you could say I've been mistreated--I've been spanked, I've been yelled at, I've had to do chores (GASP), I've been forced to go places I didn't want to go, and hey, if most adults had my life, I have no doubt they'd be screaming bloody murder a lot of the time. AND I LOVE IT! Sure, homeschooling parents tend to be rougher on their kids. They can see firsthand what lazy little slobs their kids tend to be unless they are forced to work. Thus, they make their kids work! They actually punish the little dear if he/she doesn't get the work done! THERE IS A PENALTY FOR DOING WRONG, and this gets beat into the kid's head. That is a good thing. I don't know you or your situation palzon, but 100% of the homeschoolers I know (and probably 99% of the country's homeschoolers) love homeschooling and would do anything to stay homeschooled. When I'm being truculent Mom often threatens me with going to a public school--and it's an effective threat. Who cares about learning a new thing every day? I want to learn hundreds of new things every day!

Haha...another example of why homeschooling breeds little sissy nancy boys.

I'd watch who you call a little sissy nancy boy if I were you, it is often hard to tell on a online BB who was homeshooled and who was not.

Oh, I see... being spanked a few times breeds wimps that are going to get kicked around by everyone they meet. Right.

Seriously, it teaches you to take your lumps, get off your duff, and get on with what you're supposed to be doing! If you never learn responsibility, it's not the government's fault that you can't hold a steady job, don't make enough to cover rent, and can barely survive without welfare. It's not because you're unemployed; that's looking at the short-range. It's because you're unemployable. As for actually (GASP) LEARNING SOMETHING, it's not like it's a revolutionary concept. If it was, we'd still be wearing animal skins and communicating by word of mouth, if we'd even been able to survive on this planet.

BTW, if you wanna call me a little sissy nancy boy, meet me in the mines sometime. Or with a sabre. Or hand to hand. I don't call being able to lift over 200 pounds easily "little." Or maybe try shooting a blowgun with 75-90% accuracy. Or a bow and arrow. Perhaps a rifle?

I'm not trying to brag here, I'm trying to show you that homeschoolers are usually better educated, both physically and mentally, and in general are less rowdy, less vulgar, nicer people. Homeschoolers have more time on their hands to pursue interests, and are more likely to proceed farther in school in the time they do devote to it.

Stryker wrote:Or maybe try shooting a blowgun with 75-90% accuracy.

hehe ;p

"are less rowdy, less vulgar, nicer people"

doormat

(i'm australian)

i was public schooled myself, my primary school (grade school) sucked. then highschool rocked, then after 1 year of that bliss the family moved and the highschool i moved to was really horrible. anyway, school was over 6 years ago for me.

nowdays i know a lot of kids who homeschool, and it's true, they excel academically and have very busy social and active lives (mostly with people NOT their own age). it's better than public school in so many regards.
some kids i know whom are going to public school are having behavioral troubles, i have great access to these kids so i'm gonna study em and have a deep look into it, testing some theorys: "are these kids being lost in the system? and would they be better suited to homeschooling?".

when i have kids, i'm considering homeschooling them. basically just coz i really care about kids and i don't want mine being failed by the system (like i was).

i basically homeschool myself now as a adult. internet i love you.

in my opinion public school fucked me up socially more than anything. i had enough friends outof school (i live on EARTH, i know a lot of humans, they are ★■◆●ing everywhere!), homeschooling would have been a breath of fresh air, academically as well.

you know something that i find sad about all mass schooling (public & private)?
so many ppl i know stay so close with their same group of friends they had in school. that's damage right there. kinda reminds me of a close knit tribe of men going through war together.

Legal + Promoted. If it is done right, it can be a very good way to school your child.

beowulf, you have a PM.

we relaly need one of those popup PM things here
get a message, it pops up.

yeah that'd be nice, I PMed beowulf about how many sissy nancy boys he knew that were homeschooled and he basically said "one for sure." I aksed him who of course (even though I know he's referring to me) and asked him how he came to the conclusion that that person was a sissy nancy boy and he hasn't answered.

Thanks for putting in your useless banter beowulf and giving us no insightful or useful information. This is ethics and commentary, and the commentary doesn't include comments from the peanut gallery.

Either way I wish there was a way to make pop up PMs. I wished they were unavoidable.

well,
you have all proven notta to me.
i would never home school a child. why would you take away the development of a childs independence? why would you take away their exposure to random experiences? why shelter a child from the reality of being alive on earth? so that they can become an academic?

that life is only good for a certain lot of people.... not everyone in the human race is meant to shine their slide ruler with their mommy.

it's overkill.

I think we make Cops a poster child for why homeschooling should be mandatory.

"it seems these dems want control our lives with hillarysatan as their spokesperson. tell me this liberal scum: how would i post without the aid of ghetto html right wing propaganda websites to fuel my ideas?"

Ok, I'm really not sure whether homeschooling is a good idea or not. I have heard mixed opinions; some say it works better, others say it is worse. While it is much harder for a kid to fall through the cracks if the parents actually give a damn (and know what they're doing...!), some schoolteachers say they are prone to have more problems if they go to school later on.

But anyway, I can't really say anything else so I might as well give a testimonial...

I was homeschooled myself, most of my life. I never actually attended school until I was 16, believe it or not. (I attended kindergarten until I was about four, though.) This was mainly because I was significantly advanced at the age of four or five, and my parents felt it would be a waste of time to send me to school where I'd sit there doing nothing for a couple of years.

Not sure exactly how much happened over the ages of four to about eleven or so, but I recall I was generally a year or two ahead of my age group even then (from tests and the like). My parents tended to get me to work through exercise books, read material etc, and aid me when I needed it.

Obviously this couldn't continue through high school, and they ended up enrolling me on correspondence courses in the equivalent of 11th grade in this country (New Zealand). The same the following year.

It was, in fact, at this point that it became obvious I was academically doing a lot better than average for my age group... although the framework these courses adhered to wasn't particularly built on percentage scores or anything, when I sat the 11th grade (School Certificate) exams, I got A grades for both Science and Mathematics (86% and 98% respectively), and a B grade for English (71%). There was no such assessment the following year though.

Come my last year of secondary school - 13th grade, or Year 13 as they call it here, I attended a private school instead. It was something of an acid test as I had never attended a school before... but surprisingly enough it turned out just fine. I had no problems at all adapting to school life, although naturally I didn't know anyone there at first. I'd say I behaved better than most of the other students as well... :]
Grades shot through the roof as well. In the University Bursary exams that year (last year they were run incidentally) I achieved scholarships in all five subjects I sat... 86 for Chemistry, 90 for Statistics and Physics, 95 for Economics and Calculus, which gave me the highest aggregate mark in the school... probably one of the highest in the country.

But perhaps I'm just an exception to the rule - it's not like every attempt at homeschooling will achieve such dramatic results...

Personally, I would have expected homeschooling would have caused slower social development (especially in my case since I had relatively little contact with other children - the vast majority was with adults), but it doesn't always seem to. Sometimes, perversely, it can improve it. Academically, it's not so surprising that it does cause some improvement though.

I could turn it into some sort of insult I suppose, but I wont. I'll just say that everyone who thinks "social development" occurs when you only ever are around people your own age are completely wrong. Actually, I tend to think that if children are only kept around other children of their exact same age group it does far more to damage their social development then anything. When kept all in the same age group children have nobody older to help set an example of behavior, nor do they have anyone younger that can help teach them how to be more responsible. After school, you will rarely or never encounter a situation in real life where you are with a group of people all your own age.

Many home schooled children are from a religious up bringing, not because they can't cut it in society. There are positives and negatives to both types of schooling, but ultimately it is the decision of the parents.

I think home schooled children would tend to be a bit more mature for their ages.