DescentBB

I'm sure any number of us over the years have gotten a little peeved whenever a american vehicle/troops gets bombed and the night shirt crowd shows up and starts party'n. Finally our guys did the right thing when the latest Bradley vehicle was ambushed. As the predictable crowd showed up and danced for glee around the burning troop carrier, a american helicopter threw a little american love at the dancers and killed a number of them. Why even a reporter for al Bra-zeera got offed in the process. So whaddya think? Good idea? Do you think the party bell will ring when the next incident like the above occurs?
Of course things like dropping a little ordinance on "innocent" people won't happen with Kerry's kinder gentler handling of things, so perhaps this is another reason not to vote for the Waffle King.

do you really approve of this?

Absolutely

You're crazy, woodchip.
What's next? Killing people in anti-Bush demonstrations in the homeland to show them bastages?

You're a radical, that's what. Just without the muslim part.

F***ing disgusting. On both ends.

woodchip do you see any difference between the civilian's glee at Bradley Vehicle Ambush, and your glee for those unarmed civilians being killed?

i see differences, but they are not good ones.

one is a miliary target, the other is an idealogical target (purely civilian). yet your opinion on this is scewed completley the other direction: suggesting that those civilians are more deserving of THEIR fate, and that that fate was therefore completley justifyable?

so tell me, why is it woodchip?

is it coz they are Arab? is it coz they are Iraqi? is it coz they are Muslim? is it coz they are anyone BUT White North American?

Well far thinking gurus of the DBB, lets look at this a bit differently from your shocked mindset.
Anyone want to wager a bet these party time demonstrations are orchestrated around a planned ambushing of our troops? Why do you think al-Brazeera always has a reporter so quickly on the scene? Perhaps what we will see after a few more demonstrators dead, that the idea of attacking and killing our troops may lessen because there will be no propaganda value in it.
If this is the case...call me a monster all you want, if bombing these jerk-offs dancing on the bodies of americans teaches them to stop, well then... a happy monster I'll be.

roid wrote:so tell me, why is it woodchip?

is it coz they are Arab? is it coz they are Iraqi? is it coz they are Muslim? is it coz they are anyone BUT White North American?

How crass Roidy. I'd feel the same way if it was Mother Teresa doing the dance.

I'm with you woodchip. Those bastards deserve what they got. How quickly we forget...the charred bodies of soldiers, strung up on a bridge. Cheering crowds on Sept. 11. These people are in the same camp as the very terrorists that are blowing themselves up. It's all the same to me.

Hmmm...wonder where the rules of engagement were at on this one. if they were fired upon that's one thing, but to shoot people that you may be digusted with is...absoutely terrible. you're right though woodchip, this is kerry's fault.

It's all the same to me.

yes they all look the same hey, ★■◆●ing arabs.

Hey WC, think for a moment. You're lowering yourself to their level.

I'm sure you might consider the idea to bring the WWII concentration camps and fill them with muslims rather than jews? They're inferior scum anyway, aren't they? Better to do a little too much killing than too little, isn't it?

Well it's exactly the thing that America knew it was getting into when it started an war of occupation and it's exactly the thing they should try to avoid, but that's easier said than done.

If the crowd were abusing or killing injured soldiers then i'd say let them have it. If they were excited onlookers after the occupants were obviously dead then i'd say back off. The problem is (and i'm addressing those shocked at Woody's thread) you've never been in the situation that these kids (the soldiers) have been in, the massive emotions of seeing dead compatriots burning before your eyes. What on earth do you expect them to do? Think of bullitin Board opinions and go and have a coffee.

This has nothing to do with Bush or Kerry either so dont you all start going down that road, the guys that pull the trigger aren't thinking bugger all about American politics i'm sure.

If anyone should be taking the blame, a little should be doled out to all the American observers that accompanies the Israeli combat units in gaza as preperation for Iraq. An occupying army in the end will have to fight really dirty to get it's objectives done. If i would have been one of these observers i'd have reported back that it's gonna end up a right bleedin' mess over there.

You're a loser Woodchip.

roid wrote:

It's all the same to me.

yes they all look the same hey, ****ing arabs.

It's not about Arabs; it's about these people being the support system for the terrorists. If their culture grew half a brain cell and realized that blowing themselves up to kill civilians is wrong, I'd have no beef with them. As it is, I consider them as part of the terrorist problem. And what FC said is right: if you were a soldier, what would you do, right or wrong?

woodchip wrote:Well far thinking gurus of the DBB, lets look at this a bit differently from your shocked mindset.

Anyone want to wager a bet these party time demonstrations are orchestrated around a planned ambushing of our troops? Why do you think al-Brazeera always has a reporter so quickly on the scene? Perhaps what we will see after a few more demonstrators dead, that the idea of attacking and killing our troops may lessen because there will be no propaganda value in it.
If this is the case...call me a monster all you want, if bombing these jerk-offs dancing on the bodies of americans teaches them to stop, well then... a happy monster I'll be.

why oh why didn't you say that to start with woodchip.
but still, that's a lot of lives you would be ending for an unsubstantiated theory. it's plausable though.

and of course, this would make you a bonfide terrorist: purposely targeting and killing civilians to affect a media/political/military outcome.
you see that right?

Top Gun wrote:

roid wrote:

It's all the same to me.

yes they all look the same hey, ****ing arabs.

It's not about Arabs; it's about these people being the support system for the terrorists. If their culture grew half a brain cell and realized that blowing themselves up to kill civilians is wrong, I'd have no beef with them. As it is, I consider them as part of the terrorist problem. And what FC said is right: if you were a soldier, what would you do, right or wrong?

the people dancing around the freshly destroyed tank were civilians, one or more was (WAS) a reporter.
are these the people whom strung up your soldiers? no.

what do they have in common with these people whom are your REAL enemy? they are iraqis, they are arabs, and they cheer at the destruction of your army.
but this does not make them your enemy.

dude, nothing this bush character says on the subject is particularly inspired with wisdom. you seriously don't want to be repeating his foreign policys.
don't go around saying:
"you're either with us, or you're with the terrorists"
like it's the latest wise soundbite straight from the mouth of god himself.

those dancing guys, they were not your wartime enemy.

And what FC said is right: if you were a soldier, what would you do, right or wrong?

i agree with flabby. but this topic is not about the events in question. it's about how fucked up woodchip and his hateful opinions are.

I don't know the details in this case but is routine for the U.S. armed forces to blow up via airstrike any vehicle/weponary we lose in the battle field to keep the enemy from making use of it.

After all we like to sell it to 'em before they shoot us with it not just leave it laying around for free
(had to throw that bit of dark irony in there for Birdseye)

We should celebrate our victories not the deaths that result from them. But if I was the pilot of the aircraft that took it out I'd have been smiling if I saw the enemy around my target.

Woody, what do you think this is going to do for us exactly? When has killing civilians angry with an occupation ever done anything for the occupation? All that killing civilians does is give more reason for Iraqis to hate America, fueling the insurgency. To those of you endorsing this action, do you really want to drag out this conflict even longer than it has to be? Does providing an enemy with a legitimate reason to hate us sound like such a bright idea? I hope for our troops' sake that targetting civilians doesn't become standard procedure in Iraq.

So much for winning the "hearts and minds" of the country we are occupying.

When the joyous mob of celebrating Fallujanâ??s started their victorious war dance around the wrecked APC they ceased to be innocent civilians. You donâ??t have to go too many months back in time, to when another mob drunk on victory over the Infidels, dragged the chained and burned corpses of fallen American soldiers behind their cars through a Iraqi town.
If they had wanted to celebrate their great victory, they would have been smarter to lay their victory celebration well away from the scene. Doing it at that time and place was simply asking for a load of chain-gun rounds up their rear ends.

BlueFlames wrote:Woody, what do you think this is going to do for us exactly? When has killing civilians angry with an occupation ever done anything for the occupation? All that killing civilians does is give more reason for Iraqis to hate America, fueling the insurgency. To those of you endorsing this action, do you really want to drag out this conflict even longer than it has to be? Does providing an enemy with a legitimate reason to hate us sound like such a bright idea? I hope for our troops' sake that targetting civilians doesn't become standard procedure in Iraq.

To do nothing will drag the whole process on for a longer period of time. I also resent calling our troops "Occupiers" when they are liberators. The only occupiers in Iraq are the Iranians and Syrians bent on destablelizing the region as a democratic Iraq is not in their best interest.

Woodchip, it's interesting that you consider us liberators while Bush's highly touted olympic soccer team considers us occupiers. One teamate said if he wasn't in the games, he'd be fighting for al-sadr in falluja (sp?)

Birdseye wrote:Woodchip, it's interesting that you consider us liberators while Bush's highly touted olympic soccer team considers us occupiers. One teamate said if he wasn't in the games, he'd be fighting for al-sadr in falluja (sp?)

Well the games are over so whats stopping him? I for one will do a little dance when the U'S. military delivers his bullet riddled body home to his parents.
You do understand this soccer player is talking about fighting and killing fellow americans...right?

For Birdseye:

[url=http://iraqthemodel.blogspot.com/archives/2004_08_01_iraqthemodel_archive.html#109310826430571688]Omar[/url] from IraqTheModel, on August 21, wrote:Iraqi football team won against Australia 1-0 to reach the semifinal for the first time in Iraq's history. Now we are going to play for a medal! Iraq has one medal only in her Olypic record; a bronze one that we won in weight-lifting back in 1960.

This is the *BEST* acheivment Iraq has ever acheived in soccer. Strange isn't it!? Not to me! I really expected that despite the difficult life in Iraq that our athletes were going to perform better than ever, and I believe it's the effect of freedom.

Right now there is lots of shooting into the air (I don't like it but at least Iraqis are happy and it's better to waste bullets this way).

I know some of our American friends are upset with the Iraqi team because of the latest comments of some players, but this is Iraq, not 1 or 2 players and the player who said these terrible words didn't even play! I wish you could forget that idiot and join us in our celebrations, as the truth must be said, it's a victory that you helped in in so many ways.

For Woodchip:

Killing civilians is not cool. It doesn't matter which side you're on. People get caught in the crossfire sometimes, but you should never intentionally target civilians, even if they're celebrating your demise.

If they were part of the planning, on the other hand... take them out, or better yet, take them in and get information. But I don't see anybody arguing that such a thing has been established, so for now, I'm going to stick with the "it's lame, don't kill civilians" policy.

Lothar, check the sports illustrated page. According to SI, they most certainly did play. The article, if you actually wanted to read it before commenting ;p is posted in my Iraq soccer team thread.

I think we should try to keep this thread on topic and take the comments about the team into the new thread.

The problem I see is that the enemy doesn't have any clear markings and what appears to be a civilian can just as easily turn out to be the enemy.

All of this could easily be avoided if they'd wear distinguishable attire.

http://www.soul-flower.com/Merchant2/gr ... 010_sm.jpg

B-

A secondary problem is having a news camera at the scene. That alone is probably incentive enough for some people to gyrate in the streets. I will be curious to see how quick the newsies and the Iraqi chorus line show up at the next ambushed american vehicle.

I suspect there was more important things in that Bradley than just ammo and communications equipment. Considering the different style of war going on in Fallujah, there may have been an informant list or maps to known safehouses that the US determined were too sensitive to lose. Just a guess, but I doubt military planners would be willing to suffer the PR fallout of blowing up the rent-a-chanters just out of spite.

Bash the thing was burning. What was inside was not accessable to the civilians outside.
Targeting civilians is wrong and certainly brings the U.S. closer to being an occupier than a liberator. If the people of Iraq were happy to have the U.S. military in their country then there would be little in the way of celebration in cases like this.
Bomb them all, kill them all eh Woodchip. F***ing Arabs eh?
What happened to "we are bringing democracy to the freedom loving people of Iraq"?
We all knew that was a line of BS didn't we? But I sure saw a lot of support for those lying SOBs that used that line of crap to justify this war.
Getting a lot closer to the truth these days. I'm sure the "freedom loving people of Vietnam" are either laughing out loud or rolling in their graves.

I stopped reading this billshat thread at this reply:

woodchip wrote:Anyone want to wager a bet these party time demonstrations are orchestrated around a planned ambushing of our troops? Why do you think al-Brazeera always has a reporter so quickly on the scene? Perhaps what we will see after a few more demonstrators dead, that the idea of attacking and killing our troops may lessen because there will be no propaganda value in it.
If this is the case...call me a monster all you want, if bombing these jerk-offs dancing on the bodies of americans teaches them to stop, well then... a happy monster I'll be.

Lotta maybe's there, chip, that add up to a fairly weak argument that quietly slides away from the REAL reason you think this way - because you're afraid.

I'll counter your bet with one of my own that's nearly as meaningless: if circumstances were reversed and you had been born an Arab, you'd be one of the ones dancing on the burned out vehicle.

MehYam wrote:I stopped reading this billshat thread at this reply:

woodchip wrote:Anyone want to wager a bet these party time demonstrations are orchestrated around a planned ambushing of our troops? Why do you think al-Brazeera always has a reporter so quickly on the scene? Perhaps what we will see after a few more demonstrators dead, that the idea of attacking and killing our troops may lessen because there will be no propaganda value in it.
If this is the case...call me a monster all you want, if bombing these jerk-offs dancing on the bodies of americans teaches them to stop, well then... a happy monster I'll be.

Lotta maybe's there, chip, that add up to a fairly weak argument that quietly slides away from the REAL reason you think this way - because you're afraid.

I'll counter your bet with one of my own that's nearly as meaningless: if circumstances were reversed and you had been born an Arab, you'd be one of the ones dancing on the burned out vehicle.

Pretty assumptive on your part MehYam...that I am afraid of what exactly? If the situation was reversed I'd be in the local watering hole smoking my water pipe...much like the old man in Catch 22.
Doing nothing or assuming everyone is innocent until proven guilty will not work in this particular court of law.

Iâ??m with you Woody, I wish I could have killed every one of those Palestinians I saw dancing in the streets on 911. My hatred for Arabs grows every single day!

If you hate me so much that you would celebrate my deathâ?¦then I have every reason to want â??youâ?

Please tell me you're being sarcastic. Please tell me you're not so ignorant as to stereotype an entire race of people with a bumper-sticker blanket statement.

You want to kill you some A-rabs? Why don't you go over there and tell them that, and do us all a favor. Maybe we'll see a video of your decapitation floating around the Internet somewhere.

EDIT: and on a second note...

What about Chechyna? You see those terrorists blowing up buildings, raping, killing children in a school. What about the Basque seperatists? Blowing up a trainstation. What about Somalia, Kosovo, Northern Ireland...places that are just as volatile but don't get news coverage because we think that we're the only people who matter in the world and unless it affects us, its no good to us. The selfish attitude that you display is why the world hates us. And the completely blind indifference to everybody else in the world other than you makes you just as bad as a terrorist.

Yay for Spidey.

Beowulf wrote:Please tell me you're being sarcastic. Please tell me you're not so ignorant as to stereotype an entire race of people with a bumper-sticker blanket statement.

You want to kill you some A-rabs? Why don't you go over there and tell them that, and do us all a favor. Maybe we'll see a video of your decapitation floating around the Internet somewhere.

EDIT: and on a second note...

What about Chechyna? You see those terrorists blowing up buildings, raping, killing children in a school. What about the Basque seperatists? Blowing up a trainstation. What about Somalia, Kosovo, Northern Ireland...places that are just as volatile but don't get news coverage because we think that we're the only people who matter in the world and unless it affects us, its no good to us. The selfish attitude that you display is why the world hates us. And the completely blind indifference to everybody else in the world other than you makes you just as bad as a terrorist.

holy crap beo, for once i totally agree with you.

woodchip wrote:

Birdseye wrote:Woodchip, it's interesting that you consider us liberators while Bush's highly touted olympic soccer team considers us occupiers. One teamate said if he wasn't in the games, he'd be fighting for al-sadr in falluja (sp?)

Well the games are over so whats stopping him? I for one will do a little dance when the U'S. military delivers his bullet riddled body home to his parents.
You do understand this soccer player is talking about fighting and killing fellow americans...right?

Dancing when someone is shot up is disgusting...my opinion of you has fallen down another notch.

roid wrote:so tell me, why is it woodchip?

is it coz they are Arab? is it coz they are Iraqi? is it coz they are Muslim? is it coz they are anyone BUT White North American?

None of the above. It's because they [those specifically gathered] "deserve" it. This is a war. People die; all sides for many reasons. It's only become fashonable to hit "only military" targets since Vietnam. Many MANY civilians were killed in all wars prior and normally they had the sense to get out of the way when waring forces got near and bullets started flying. We actually do a pretty good job minimizing "collateral damage."

Now, do I approve of this... not really, but at this point do I care? no.

They enjoy picking off our troops little by little to "Twist our arms". Some of our troops get tired of having them twisted. It's very likely that many and maybe MOST are the one planting the bomb. It's cheap entertainment, kinda like putting a penny on the railroad tracks.


I'm sure this will po' a number of you off. *shrug* I'm tired, this is the net and I can vent. so bleh.

Duper wrote:None of the above. It's because they [those specifically gathered] "deserve" it. This is a war. People die; all sides for many reasons. It's only become fashonable to hit "only military" targets since Vietnam. Many MANY civilians were killed in all wars prior and normally they had the sense to get out of the way when waring forces got near and bullets started flying. We actually do a pretty good job minimizing "collateral damage."

Now, do I approve of this... not really, but at this point do I care? no.

They enjoy picking off our troops little by little to "Twist our arms". Some of our troops get tired of having them twisted. It's very likely that many and maybe MOST are the one planting the bomb. It's cheap entertainment, kinda like putting a penny on the railroad tracks.


I'm sure this will po' a number of you off. *shrug* I'm tired, this is the net and I can vent. so bleh.

Kufyit is now staring at his/her/its monitor, apoplectic. [/off-topic stereotypical left-wing bash]

Just think! A good many people in said group probably would've planted bombs or blown themselves up, so call it preemptive striking, if you want a military definition. Also, last I checked, dying for what you believed in rates pretty high among your peers and your God, if that's what your belief pertains to.