creationism and cultural decline

contact · Post by **contact** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:27 pm

sorry about the length - but there is a point (well...mostly)

Aminuddin Ahmad writes that Islam gave to the world the first time in human thought where theology, philosophy, and science were finally harmonized in a unified whole.

"Thus their contribution was "one of the first magnitude, considering its effect upon scientific and philosophic thought and upon the theology of later times" (Hitti 580). Islam's contributions to science had covered many roots of thought including mathematics, astronomy, medicine and philosophy."

Cool - i wasn't there but will take his word for it. So while Europe endured the darkest of its days, islam forged ahead in an arena of, to a limited extent, intelectual endeavour.

But history suggests Islam then forged a path of dogma borne of literal interpretation of biblical texts, while western culture susequently paid homage to scientific method and self determination.

The point of this thread is to ask if the US isn't taking first ill directed steps down the same path that was the undoing of islam.

i ask this with reference to the article in Wired about creationism being taught in some US state schools.

15 years ago, the US Supreme Court ruled against a Louisiana law mandating equal time for creationism in the classroom, "Because creation science relies on biblical texts, the court reasoned, it "lacked a clear secular purpose" and violated the First Amendment clause prohibiting the establishment of religion."

What Intelligent Design proponents call "biology for the information age," scientist call "creationism in a lab coat".

ID is playing a central role in biology curricula and textbook controversies around the country.

The Discovery Institute and its supporters have taken the ID message to Alabama, Arizona, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, New Mexico, and Texas.

Now - consider that US citizens are going to China to get gene therapy treatments and the like in an amazing turnaround, as the US has always, to me anway, appeared the place where all the cutting edge research was being conducted..

so is the US, with its upsurge in christian fundamentalism, slowly but surely repeating history - a history contemporary Islam reveals to be something to be avoided at all costs?

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:37 pm

Uh, creationism was taught in schools long before evolution, partially because evolutionary theory was not widely accepted, but also because schools were originally church-funded institutions.

That said, evolutionary theory has a *lot* more proof going for it than creation myth. You can not prove that creationism is true, whether it is or not.

contact · Post by **contact** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:39 pm

still - why turn back the clock now?

Stryker · Post by **Stryker** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:49 pm

Try reading the book What if Jesus had never been born?" by Dr. James Kennedey.

contact · Post by **contact** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:04 pm

i'm not denying the benefits of christian beliefs to those inclined towards them

what i am saying is the non secular path is a dangerous one - as islam clearly demonstrates

bash · Post by **bash** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:50 pm

What upsurge?

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:03 pm

Is this another tirade saying that Islam inherently promotes violence?

Been there, done that - but it's always the people who abuse the religion that do it, rather than the actual religion itself.

Genocide is a lot easier to reconcile with atheism than almost any religion.

DCrazy · Post by **DCrazy** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:30 pm

bash wrote:What upsurge?

That's what I'm trying to say...

Ford Prefect · Post by **Ford Prefect** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:17 pm

As much as there may be more creationism taught in schools than in the receint past I don't think you will ever find it gaining a foothold in those places where true science is being done. The Univesities and private labratories where advances are made have thousands and thousands of qualified candidates to chose from. Certainly Canadian universities have so many applicants for science and engineering that the entrance standards are now absurdly high. You can have straight As in high school science and be turned away. This to me indicates that there will be lots of people to continue to make advances in technology and science in spite of a group of blinkered thinkers amoungst one segment of the population.

Sirius · Post by **Sirius** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:08 pm

Well, there will always be those people, even in scientific establishments, that hold views that are exceptionally different from the norm, and you might be surprised how well they can defend them.

Similarly, I would be cautious about accusing ideologies of being bogus. They often have a point.

Duper · Post by **Duper** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:50 pm

contact wrote:i'm not denying the benefits of christian beliefs to those inclined towards them

what i am saying is the non secular path is a dangerous one - as islam clearly demonstrates

well.. neither is going to happen. Not like you fear at least. Read the End of the book.

I would be causious using the Islamic history as an example. It is as bloody and even more so than the Christian history.