DescentBB

No not a licentious NHB topic but anyone here care to guess what animal drive is stronger than that to procreate? (not sure if I ever asked this before, but it is interesting)

What species? It may make a difference. If we are talking in generalities, I will take a shot but will probably be wrong.

Is it self preservation?

I guess the same as Ded...

Most higher species like mammals or avians.
And you both be wrong

Power?

In a sense, but no.

bangin' the most "fertile" mate?

The urge to pee when your blatter is really full?

Hunger

Grendel wrote:Hunger

Same as Self Preservation. Gets my vote.

Nope.

Not sure how you define animal drive. Sleep is something you can't avoid too. Thirst is another one. Excrementing too. The drive to procreate is rather low on the scale, everything that threatens your life or every other involuntary body function takes precedence. Try thinking about sex while close to vomitting..

Interaction.

Interaction.

No. Keep trying. Otherone you got a answer or should I let them dangle a while longer?

I know the answer. I thought this was a guessing game, so it would be like cheating if I answer.

The drive to aquire territory.

The reason why I keep guessing

self preservation?

woodchip wrote:wrong

self preservation is stronger than the desire to procreate woodchip, perhaps instead of "wrong" you ment to say "oh yeah, but it's not the one i'm thinking of".

Altruism.

BD

The drive to aquire territory.

Google yo.

There are two others that I can think of:

Greed.

To protect your offspring.

It is ..

Grendel wrote:The reason why I keep guessing

If someone said: "bang my daughter and I'll blow your head off" I think i'd end up finding someone else.

Well, Will wins woodchips bag of high quality sawdust award. In many species of animals Robert Ardrey writes in his book "The Territorial Imperative" that male song birds will not breed until they arrive in the nesting area and stake out a claim on a certain area. Most interesting was Ardrey's account of a wild caught troop of monkeys, put in a communal hold aboard a ship and transported to a island where they could be studied. The whole time of their travels the monkeys showed no sign of sexual behavior. It wasn't until the monkeys established themselves on the island that breed recommenced. Lions do not breed until they can claim a territory and the females there-in. Fights to the death among male lions either defending their territory or trying to steal it from another goes to show that self preservation is not a more powerful drive.

We can look at human need for territory in much the same way. Protecting ones nation state is one of the few things humans are willing to go out and die for. While I won't say that human sexual needs are held in check by the need for property aquisition, one can see that when it comes time for breeding, property is a factor. By breeding I mean sex to produce off spring. Certainly not in all cases, but enough to show that aquiring territory is important even to humans. Congrats Will even though I think Otherone had the answer also.

Don't know if the interpretation of acquiring teritory being stronger is correct. You could also say that having enough territory is a prerequesite for the drive to procreate to arise. For instance, why build a nest when you're not even sure that there is enough food to feed your young...

edit: two important points, that kinda underline my point:
http://www.all-science-fair-projects.co ... y_(animal)
"...and the popularity of this book [The Territorial Imperative] led to an exaggerated perception of the importance of territory in social ethology. In fact only a minority of species maintain territories with well defined boundaries, within which they live and find all the resources they need."
"Behavioural ecologists have argued that food distribution determines whether a species will be territorial or not. Territoriality is only expected to emerge where there is a focused resource that provides enough for the individual or group, within a boundary that is small enough to be defended without the expenditure of too much effort."

so, you might say that Grendel actually was correct. Territory as a means to prevent the animal (and its offspring) from ever becoming hungry...

Intriguing.

Heh, at least for people, it's not that acquiring territory is a stronger drive than sex. It's that you can't have sex until you have a place to do it. It's a logical prerequisite, not a stronger drive. Indeed, sex seems to be the much stronger drive, in my experience. It's quite common to hear the sentiment, "I NEED SEX NOW." And it's a good bit rarer to hear, "I NEED TO BUY MORE PROPERTY NOW!!"

That, and it seems an odd argument to suggest that the strength of drives is "territory > self-preservation > sex" since people will die for their country, but not for sex. Dying for your country isn't about territory, it's about ideals, or altruism, or community self-preservation, or protecting your family, or... could be about lots of stuff that's generally more important to people than sex. On average, people don't die for their country because they feel a need to communally own more land. I mean, seriously, how many people driven to join the military by the thought, "OMG, OMG, WE NEED THIS LAND! WE NEED SO MUCH MORE LAND!" Um, yeah. No.

Interesting trivia with the animals, but the conclusion seems a little overblown.

Drakona wrote:It's quite common to hear the sentiment, "I NEED SEX NOW."

Lothar, are you going to defend yourself here?



I agree with Drak. But I think what we all might be overlooking, however, is the fact that sex happens when both sexual parties share a mutual attraction. In the animal kingdom, there will be indicators that a male (or, sometimes female) of a species has a genetic predisposition for survival -- only one of which might be an established territory.

This is overgeneralizing, but I think in the animal kingdom males are of the "I NEED SEX NOW" ilk, and females make choices about whether the males rate. Are you the Ursus defending the mostest territory? Can you keep the younger males at bay?

If so, your genetic line may endure.

The reason I raised altruism as an answer (I think I'm probably wrong, by the way ... it's not that prevalent), is because I took a great class in college called "Ecology, Evolution, and ***" something or another, that noted the occurrence of altruistic behavior in certain species. In other words, certain animals would die to protect others in their group, sometimes (I think) even when there was no blood relationship there. That kind of social behavior in animals that presumably lack self-awareness is ... kind of astonishing, to me.

Fun question, Chippie. What kind of wood is in the sawdust? Mix that stuff with a little kerosene and it makes a good starter for a log fire.

BD

Bold Deceiver wrote:

Drakona wrote:It's quite common to hear the sentiment, "I NEED SEX NOW."

Lothar, are you going to defend yourself here?

Nope.

Sex = aquiring property

Lothar wrote:

Bold Deceiver wrote:

Drakona wrote:It's quite common to hear the sentiment, "I NEED SEX NOW."

Lothar, are you going to defend yourself here?

Nope.

... cuz that's my job. It was in the marriage contract--it's my job to respond enthusiastically to my husband's "NEED SEX NOW" signals. I'm pretty darn good at it, too--at least, to judge by how much schoolwork he manages to get done when he's at home.

heh! too much information.

if an unstopable big scary force was rolling along the savana plains, lions run away.

they don't stand there and get squashed "coz i ain't leavin my crib yo". if ownership of land was more important than self-preservation, then animals would not have the instinctual hardwiring to "freak out and run" when threatened by an unknown force.
and lions DO run away scared, don't kid yourself of this.

the aquiring of land is not a base instinct, it's a higher function. the mind has to rationalise it, what are the risks? will i succeed? it's not the first thing on your primitive mind - self preservation is.

Grendel wrote:Try thinking about sex while close to vomitting..

I had food poisoning starting at 1am, and I was up all night barfing. After a session about 8:30, I climb back into bed for the 15 minutes I have before I have to go back in there. My gf wakes up and makes her '★■◆● me' face. Guess what I did for those 15 minutes? Yep. Then I had to run into the bathroom quick, 'cause that stuff was just waiting for me to finish.

Hehe -- entertaining TMI

Hahahaha @ Testi