DescentBB

Hi, I just wanted to know everyones opinion on cameras.

I voted for "I think cameras are cheap"

I use cameras once in a while in some levels. They can be mildly handy, but dont let them make you too predictible. Once in a while I can just about see backwards through someone else's camera, you know exactly what they are going to do.

They are more useful in defensive positions to keep an eye on a tunnel far behind you so you know when someone is coming.

Cameras are useful, but depending on the way they are used, incredibly cheap.

Screenshot: There is only one entrance to a base. A player puts a camera in it and guards it with a napalm rocket. TeH CheEPineSs.

I use cameras to keep doors open. Other than I never use them.

Stryker wrote:Screenshot: There is only one entrance to a base. A player puts a camera in it and guards it with a napalm rocket. TeH CheEPineSs.

You need to stop playing Worlds Apart 2.

i dont like cameras, they lag the game down like gunboys and mines producing a lot of traffic, and mostly they are used to get camper-kills.

I missed the option "cameras are lame BS".

As the steal bandwith and CPU of Clients and Servers IMHO they are just LAME.

On my servers it is prohibited to drop em.

Cameras should only be used in SP IMHO.

I agree with Digi and add the point "It is a shame that a ServerOp has no possibilities to disable them".

I have used them before, almost exclusively for defense, to let me know if an opponent is entering the base. I don't think they're cheap, but if you always have to use them you won't develop the skills necessary to deal with better players. A good player without cameras will always beat a so-so player who is using them.

Getting past Krom when he's using cameras = very hard.

I was using em in halcyon today for fun times. oh man did candy and this other dude get pissed off. it was hilarious

Do they really generate traffic?

Sounds stupid.

I think they are a legit part of the game, and if I can use them to nail you with some fusion blobs, you should learn to be more wary when you see a camera next time.

I use them in defense.

In anarchy, they're kinda dumb. Especially in 1v1, they break the level.

Although, I used them once when some dude would NOT stop camping in the same spots. So I dropped one at each spot, and the game was much better off for it.

I use them for mini-steriograms

In CTF defense, they are useful, but I think they're cheesy.

In anarchy, they're lame, and should be disallowed. Using them as door props goes against the level designer's intent. Any other use is even lamer.

Of course, they call it "anarchy" so whatever. I hereby mock anyone who uses them regularly. (although I tend to think testi had a point in his ONE use)

The only real use for cameras is to block the view of other people's cameras.

Suncho wrote:The only real use for cameras is to block the view of other people's cameras.

Now that's funny. Most people don't even know how to block cameras. Some place cameras in front of others (thinking they are blocking an opponant's camera) that blocks maybe 5% of the view.

While we're at it, let's ban all weapons since we all can find for every weapon someone who dislikes it.

Let's all have a flare fight!

Oh wait, flares are cheap. Let's ban them.

[MS]Instig8 wrote:

Suncho wrote:The only real use for cameras is to block the view of other people's cameras.

Now that's funny. Most people don't even know how to block cameras. Some place cameras in front of others (thinking they are blocking an opponant's camera) that blocks maybe 5% of the view.

While we're at it, let's ban all weapons since we all can find for every weapon someone who dislikes it.

Let's all have a flare fight!

Oh wait, flares are cheap. Let's ban them.

Actually flares are cheap. People can use them during fights to crap out the framerates of their opponents. If you're on a slower system a single flare can ruin your day.

Suncho wrote:Actually flares are cheap. People can use them during fights to crap out the framerates of their opponents. If you're on a slower system a single flare can ruin your day.

Only if you're on a 486....oh wait, might as well make engines lame too. That way you have to just sit there and take it like a man....but since all weapons and flares are cheap....what would we use?

If its in the game, and its usable, then its fair play to use what you can to get an edge. Don't like someone useing a camera? Block it with something. Thats something I did all the time in my D2 days. Then again, going with the logic of some people in here, dropping smines behind the doors in Minerva is cheap too....

Delkian wrote:Do they really generate traffic?

Sounds stupid.

Only position packets like a mine. The view is generated locally. The lag overhead is not very big. I like to have them for CTF defense.

Edit: I hate it when ppl place them in the middle of a door to keep it open -- you can get hang up on them suckers.

thats not true. d3 has a portal system for a reason. in a multiplayergame you get only send from the server what happens in the room you are flying and the neighbour-rooms /portals you can see. thats the reason why a 16 player polaris plays good but a 16 player halcyon would lag like crazy.

now if you place a cam the situation changes, the server almost doubles the traffic that it must send to you, your clients need all information what happens in the area where you are as well as the area where your camera is. thats why cams lag more then mines gunboys or whatever they allmost count as a extra player (who is passiv though).

DigiJo wrote:thats not true. d3 has a portal system for a reason. in a multiplayergame you get only send from the server what happens in the room you are flying and the neighbour-rooms /portals you can see. thats the reason why a 16 player polaris plays good but a 16 player halcyon would lag like crazy.

now if you place a cam the situation changes, the server almost doubles the traffic that it must send to you, your clients need all information what happens in the area where you are as well as the area where your camera is. thats why cams lag more then mines gunboys or whatever they allmost count as a extra player (who is passiv though).

Wrong: mines and gunboys DO count as another full player in the game, they have to send and update position packets to the players, cameras do not. The only way cams increase lag is if you are around several players on one end of the level while you have a cam open on the other end of the level with people there, you will also recieve position packets from where the camera is. Even so it is less lag then if all the pilots you see on your screen and on the cam were in the same room fighting.

Stryker wrote:Cameras are useful, but depending on the way they are used, incredibly cheap.

Screenshot: There is only one entrance to a base. A player puts a camera in it and guards it with a napalm rocket. TeH CheEPineSs.

stryker... this is very easy to go around. helpful hint: charge the camera, stop, as they fire their rocket... do that a few times... and if they dont fire their ammo, u can slip in on one of the "fakes"



cameras arent cheap. they are part of the game.


naaah.. lets ban it... but you know what? pheonixes are crapping cheap.. lets ban them. magnums... they have waaay too much shilds, and that triple fusion... dude.. its just dumb. Bps... those are NOOOOb ships... all servers should ban them. pyro-gl... it holds too much and goes too fast... i thought it was equal! ban it too.

observer mode lags the game! there should be no such thing. its cheap when ur just staring with nothing into space... no one can hurt you! also blue lasers... goodness sakes! they fire waaay too rapid.
and you know what? who put CHEESE in the game?! whos stupid idea was that...?

ummm. i think spaceboys speaking privaleges should be revoked for a while.

And i use camera's in certain CTF situations mostly for Defense

...sure.... not. as someone started another topic about this, nitpicking polls are stupid. so im not gonna act serious whatsoever on it. lol@zero... ...
crazy butte clackamas county......

Cameras are fine.
subway is fine.
hud is fine.
all the ships are fine.
all the weapons are fine.
stop complaining, if all of it got taken away we'd get alot more complaints.

Spaceboy wrote:...sure.... not. as someone started another topic about this, nitpicking polls are stupid. so im not gonna act serious whatsoever on it. lol@zero... ...
crazy butte clackamas county......

Cameras are fine.
subway is fine.
hud is fine.
all the ships are fine.
all the weapons are fine.
stop complaining, if all of it got taken away we'd get alot more complaints.

You live near portland Oregon?

Whenever i use cameras they bog my system down, so i never use them...besides i think setting up cameras in hallways to know exactly where ur opponent is coming from is kinda ghey.

DigiJo wrote:thats not true. d3 has a portal system for a reason. in a multiplayergame you get only send from the server what happens in the room you are flying and the neighbour-rooms /portals you can see. thats the reason why a 16 player polaris plays good but a 16 player halcyon would lag like crazy.

Do you ever do anything besides trying to put polaris on a higher pedestal than hally? Really it got lame all over the NuB boards. Now dont bring it here.

There's no need to try putting Polaris on a higher pedestal, it's already there. Nothing against Halcyon at all, it's just not even on the same plane.

Don't know if an of you ever played Skyler back in the old Kali days, but him and I used to use cameras against eachother in one of Midgard's levels, Ritual I think it was. There were those passthrough walls above doors that came out from the lower 'sewer' levels to either side, red or blue. Anyways, once you passed through the walls you could see out into the room but they couldn't see in, so we kept planting cameras in those areas to see which side the other would pass by first.

Not being able to see into the little rooms until you passed through the wall posed a problem, because if someone was using the camera they already knew you were in that area and most likely camping inside waiting for the other to pass through the wall. About that time you would get a face full of plasma and a smart missile straight to the mug.

Was really one of my first experiences with the camera option using the markers. Up until that point I had no clue you could even do that. Didn't prove to matter much, just as in D3 hardly anyone uses them and there really isn't a point other then in a mid-sized level while playing 1vs1 IMO. Maybe a 4 player Anarchy or something. Half the time you find eachother so fast in D3 and you have a weapon that can reach so far to the other side of a room it's moot in the scheme of things.

In D2 it was kinda fun to use. Didn't slow down the game anymore then usual either. That was back when all of us were playing on 28.8 or less too. 500ms pings baby!

Suncho wrote:

[MS]Instig8 wrote:

Suncho wrote:The only real use for cameras is to block the view of other people's cameras.

Now that's funny. Most people don't even know how to block cameras. Some place cameras in front of others (thinking they are blocking an opponant's camera) that blocks maybe 5% of the view.

While we're at it, let's ban all weapons since we all can find for every weapon someone who dislikes it.

Let's all have a flare fight!

Oh wait, flares are cheap. Let's ban them.

Actually flares are cheap. People can use them during fights to crap out the framerates of their opponents. If you're on a slower system a single flare can ruin your day.

I call BS. I'm on an 800mhz duron, radeon 7000, 256 RAM, and I USE flares in a dogfight.

I think Descent 3 uses a slightly different network mechanism than Descent 2 did, but in neither the lag will be significant.

In D2, in fact, the lag will be about as significant as dropping a single weapon powerup. The reason being that all you are doing is adding one object to the level, as far as everyone else is concerned; there is no additional net traffic, as everything is handled client-side.

This can be done as you're receiving the position information and weapon firing information from other ships anyway; the marker just lets you see them.

In D3, if what I heard is accurate, the server only sends you the information from ships that will affect what you can see; hence there will be a small increase in bandwidth used, but only as much as a single observer would generate.

Not particularly laggy in either case, unless everyone drops millions of them.

In Descent 2, by the way, it was universally agreed that mining the doors in Minerva was cheap. But everyone did it anyway, and if you had a problem with that, you either banned mines or played a better level.

Phoenix Red wrote:I call BS. I'm on an 800mhz duron, radeon 7000, 256 RAM, and I USE flares in a dogfight.

★■◆●, when I played D3 on a piddly K6-2 350 with a whopping 64MB of RAM and a Diamond Viper V550 (TNT1, 16MB AGP 1.0) and I had no issues at all with flare fights. If they cause problems on your end, then its something you did. Either that, or your system is so damn slow that it can't handle being set at "Very High" so bump it down a little. Hell, read the readme and learn how to use the command line options.

I used to have a P2 350mhz, voodoo 3, 128mb ram and that was fine in any situation really.

Cameras are fully legal and legit and I don't think they should be banned from any server. If anything they enhance the tactics involved in the game and if you complain about being spotted you should have enough sense not to run into it twice

The demand it puts on the server does not govern if they are legit or not, its how they are used. Senseless traps like cameras in Worlds Apart 2 are a bit cheap, but otherwise I think that everything is fine.

And calm down...

Why do I get the feeling that people are bringing back old issues in a desperate attempt to keep the DBB alive? =P This just seems like stuff that has already been discussed before. Especially Suncho with his "cheating" threads.

O.K. My view on markers: using "cameras" in doors is lame, because it ruins the level designer's intentions, and it makes the "no doors" trend in D3 even worse. =P

Markers were actually invented for single-player when a player wants to mark a location he wants to return to and to tell the guidebot to help him find it again. This proved to be useful in D3 SP at times.

Um...last I checked you're the one digging through old threads and posting in them

ok neo, your thread necromancy fun is finished.