DescentBB

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiap ... index.html

This is just getting sadder by the hour. So many terrible stories. Cross yer fingers that nature dosn't come knocking at your door anytime soon. Thought it deserved mention.

It's probably coming to a shoreline near all of us eventually.

Dr Day, of the Benfield Grieg Hazard Research Centre at University College London, said the 500 billion tonne rock could collapse the next time the volcano, Cumbre Vieja, erupts.

That would send a dome-shaped wall of water up to 100m tall - 10 times as high as the tsunamis that hit south Asia - racing across the Atlantic at 800km/h.
linkage

Wouldn't it just be better to evacuate that island instead of our major cities if it's inhabited and then nuke it? Rocks = gone, lava can create a new island, problem solved?

Wow, it's The Day After Tomorrow already

Hmmm... nukes as solutions to massive natural disasters... wasn't that done in a few movies? "Armageddon", "Deep Impact", and "The Core", to name a few...

Anyway, yeah, I've been following the story. With all the destruction and loss of life, it makes 9/11 seem a lesser tragedy in some ways. I wish I could personally do something to help.

It's interesting that it doesn't seem to be getting that much attention over here in the United States, at least relatively speaking. I wonder... is this because it's so far away distance-wise, or is it more because of the cultural barrier between the victims (mostly of Indian and/or Southeast Asian descent) and the Western world?

Distance.

I've heard about it, just theres not much reason to talk about tsunamis up here in Wisconsin.

it's just so devastating... so quick... it's unfathomable. 30 foot 500 mile an hour waves... earthquakes the power of 1 million hiroshimas is just mind-boggling.

whatever I do, my thoughts keep going back to those poor people.

I just can't fathom it.

Truly sad times for the world.

I hate it for those poor people...

Then that clown at the UN calling our aid "stingy" 15 million upped to 20. I think I read where the whole EU gave 4?

If I was Dubya I would say "Ok 15 mil is stingy how does none grab ya"

In this case the needs of the many outweigh our desire to shaft the increasingly useless UN. Those people need all the help and support they can get.

The destruction caused by nature takes no notice of us and usually will happen one way or another. Destruction by mankind on the other hand can be prevented. I'm sure this will become a much larger topic over here in time.

Tyranny wrote:In this case the needs of the many outweigh our desire to shaft the increasingly useless UN. Those people need all the help and support they can get.

Oh I am all about supporting the people affected by this tragedy. I would wager our first 15 or 20 mil is the tip of the iceberg as far as support goes. Plus I have already seen sights where you can sign up and give direct to help to them. Hmm mayhaps I may donate a snooch more to the Red Cross next year...

Just found this link pretty crazy...

http://ioc.unesco.org/itsu/templates/it ... mation.gif

We give, they gave, who is not giving? Is that the first thing to come to ones mind? Pretty sad.

In an optimistic moment i'd probably say we'd need a world body that can react financially and operationally on the ground. We're not capable of doing that yet.

ps. Testi...good post.

http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqinthenews/2004/usslav/

perty interesting stuff from the science side here.

That's exactly the site I first went to when I heard about this event. I wanted to know where the epicenter was, how deep it was, what kind of quake it was, etc.

If you're interested in the science, here's another good page from a fellow at Columbia's LDEO:

http://iri.columbia.edu/~lareef/tsunami/

WRT the "stingy" comment, I think he retracted it (for what it's worth). I understand his frustration; he's the guy in charge of disaster relief for the UN, plus he's Scandinavian. The Scandinavians tend to dole out a much larger percentage of their GNP in the form of aid to other countries than we do.

Couver_ wrote:I hate it for those poor people...

Then that clown at the UN calling our aid "stingy" 15 million upped to 20. I think I read where the whole EU gave 4?

If I was Dubya I would say "Ok 15 mil is stingy how does none grab ya"

The same Moron said because america is so "rich", we should be made to pay more taxes so we could give more aid money in times like this. I'm going to try real hard not to rant. If you hear a sound it is just me popping my cork.

I do feel for all those living over there who have to sort out the mess.

A tragedy greater that any of us can imagine, at least 50,000 dead, up to half of them children due to the nature of the lifestyle.
The movment of the earth displaced the entire island of Sumatra by 35 meters. It was the most powerful earthquake since the Good Friday Alaskan quake of 1964.

The city I live in is at sea level, kept dry by dykes and pumps. It is also on the Pacific fault line. The Big One is overdue.

Move?

The 35 meter story was retracted by the L.A. Times. The island rose and moved but the amount is not confrimed.
The death toll is 68,000 and climbing. Given the usual pattern of these disaster death tolls I assume it will reach 100,000 or more. Amazon.com has changed it's website from selling goods to encouraging donations to the Red Cross.

Moving sounds like a good option but of course many other things such as workplace and housing cost come into the equasion.

For once, I'm actually happy to be living in the midwest.

Admiral Thrawn wrote:For once, I'm actually happy to be living in the midwest.

Likewise. Of course, I'm sitting on top of a fault line myself

Earthquakes can happen in the midwest too. Just because its not as frequent as California does not mean that we cant get it too. There was a minor one about a few months ago.

There is really nowhere in the world you can go and be safe from anything and everything. Just play with the cards you have been dealt with and make the best of it.

Tsunami-sucko!

There was a USGS guy on CNN last night speaking of the tsunami warning systems now installed in the Pacific. There is no such system in place in the Indian Ocean. The fact that no system was in the IO was noted 4 years ago. An offer was made to the multiple countries to install one. They didn't want to pay $ for something that happens so rarely. That is very hooverish. I say we put up the $ to install it. It was said to be only 4 or 5 million clams. We spend more than that on air fresheners in this country. That can be one of our rebuilding installments into the area. $.02

It was reported that in the U.S. siesmologists realized there would be serious tsunamies associated with the event but could not do anything to warn those in the area even though there was 1-1/2 hours between the event and some of the worst damage. Apparently they never thought to use the phone to call radio stations in the major centers of affected countries. Too much reliance on "systems" and not enough personal innovation. Probably didn't think anyone would believe them.

If there are any moderators in this forum anymore then this may need to be split, i thought another tsunami thread was a tad too much.

http://edition.cnn.com/2004/US/12/31/us.aid/index.html

I'm not one normally to defend USA foriegn policy. In fact i think somtimes they, like a naive hormonal schoolboy, stumble through decisions in a very hit and miss kind of way. Somtimes getting it gloriously wrong, and somtimes being wonderfully perfect.

The UN critisism, along with grumblings through the rest of the first world countries wasn't warranted. No-one had a bloody clue what was going on over there, so how could you set a figure upon how much help you could give. The money is all based upon pledges anyway, the actual materials are sent immediatly, then once the facts are sorted out you can base a figure upon them. Not from CNN reports, but from trained officials that can access and report back exactly what is going on.

The Media pouring oil on the flames yet again.

Yeah, old Jan the swede complained about us being stingy. Care to guess how much aid Le Beak was ante'ing up when were were being critized? How about the munificent amount of 135,000.00. Kinda makes you wonder.

Oh and FC, does that aid figure you link to include what american business and private donations are?

my company gave $100,000... plus is matching all employee relief donations.

after they clean up this mess i hope they spend some friggin' money on the sensor buoys in the indian ocean to detect the direction of future tsunamis. it won't save everyone but it will give a lot of people time to respond.

woodchip wrote:Oh and FC, does that aid figure you link to include what american business and private donations are?

Havn't got a clue woody, and it dosn't really matter. I know the UK public is going crazy with donations, as for others i also don't know. My point was that the media used an initial uninformed response from the US and turned it into ratings. Increasing blind anti-americanism, the funny thing is a lot of this came from american media (at least over here).

Why squabble over how much? It's like a big family looking at the value of christmas presents for goodness sakes, seeing who was better, and deservs the most credit.

edit: lol it's 11:48 2004 and i'm on the DBB...what a sad twat.

No squabble with you FC. I can't remember a time ever when America and her citizens didn't respond generously to their plight. Just irks me when some knothole is critical of our giving.

As long as Bush is in charge the press will take every cheap shot they can. They can't get over the fact that their boy lost.
Here's a take on it that isn't too far from dead on.

Yep, thats sort of what i meant will.

Couver_ wrote:Then that clown at the UN calling our aid "stingy" 15 million upped to 20. I think I read where the whole EU gave 4?

I don't know what had been done before the 28th (the date of your post) but Sweden alone has now given (or decided to give, I don't know which) 75 million USD, and Britain is among the largest donors as well. Spain has agreed to send 68 USD.

Edit: 68 million USD, even.

It may have been that the decisions hadn't been made yet when you read what you read, and on the other hand, if the EU as an organisation gives only something, it doesn't mean anything yet. The EU as an organisation doesn't have a large budget (it's not like the federal government in the U.S.) and all member countries still have their own economies, budgets and public spending, and those build up the vast majority of public spending in the EU area. Obviously, the funding and decisions for this kind of aid also come from individual member countries.

Anyway, let's not get into politics in this thread, please.

Edit: Some typos fixed etc.

Oops, I should RTFA myself. Spain didn't exactly decide to donate that money. Anyway, still not entirely bad.

Far more important than money is the ability and will to put boots on the ground ASAP. The current *compassion index* being played out in the media by folks with their own political agendas is an unnecessary distraction. Whether motivated by nationalism (read: anti-Americanism) or pet causes (environmentalism, anti-globalization, blah, *yawn*), I'm continually reminded of that Iraqi phrase about dogs barking but the caravan moves on. As far as money, the question shouldn't be who is giving how much but are we all providing enough during the short-, mid- and long-term needs of the area. We can worry about who will pay for rebuilding after everyone gets the water, food and shelter they need to survive until the mid-term.

man i tell ya...

the human race is a tough group to be a member of sometimes. 130,000+ humans die in a wash and you crackas are all up in arms about what 1 guy said.

★■◆● him... it's very obvious america and most of it's citizens are kind people that respond to "the call".

TheCops wrote:man i tell ya...

the human race is a tough group to be a member of sometimes. 130,000+ humans die in a wash and you crackas are all up in arms about what 1 guy said.

Cops, just picture America as one big 'hood and when some dudley do-right con man starts dissing us we all go into gangbanga mode.

i heard vauge news of this while camping out in the outback over the holiday. it wasn't until i got back yesterday that the TV is showing me the damage and footage.

i am having a lot of trouble mentally conceptualising over 100,000 people.

it sure was good how many people and governments thought twice about new years revelry spendings (ie: fireworks displays), and donated it instead.
but yeah, these things are always planned (which itself takes huge amounts of $) and payed for in advance.