DescentBB

http://www.cnn.com/2005/EDUCATION/01/31 ... index.html

The results of tihs poll, if true, are appaling. The very idea that the government should be able to allow only what it wants in print and commentary is absolutely terrifying. And the fact that these are high school students saying it disturbs me more. Sure, this is a CNN article and therefore deserves some skepticism (anyone know if Fox is carrying this as well?), but the fact of the matter is that people simply arent educated about their rights and why we need such things as a free press. The former Iraq regime, for example. China and its great firewall, North Korea. The press is absolutely not free there and thats a contributing factor to why those regimes are able to opress their people. Our system, while broken in many respects, is hundreds of thousands of times better than anything any country that restricts the press has got.

The first ammendment goes to far? Hardly. If anything it may not go far enough.

Crap like this is appaling. The younger peoples of this country need to be educated more thouroughly about why we need the freedoms we have granted to us by our bill of rights. I suppose the right against unreasonable search and seizure goes to far as well? And I suppose accused killers and rapists should be guilty until proven innocent and have no access to lawyers or the witnesses against them either?

These dumb kids are ignorant of the very foundations this country is built on. Dont they teach early american history in schools anymore? The incidents that lead the framers to craft those ammendments? Civics and history need ot be given a more impoirtant emphasis in this country. Maybe congress should pass an ammendment raising the minimum voting age to 21, see if that gets these dumb kids attention. I wonder how many of them would riot and not even care what they were rioting for?

With the internet, the government has lost the ability to be able to control the media.

High school students are notoriously dumb. This comes as no surprise.

I'm waiting to see who makes the first "I blame Bush" or "I blame the liberals" post, so I can ridicule them.

Well, I knew that journalism class I took was good for something.

They will end up caring when they're kicked out of a public place for saying something 'offensive'

A couple of articles i saw on the subject of free speech recently. 1 and 2 .


Is there a law in the States about "incitement"? If so where is the border between Freedom of Speech and provocation. I'm asking because this is a big issue in Israel at the moment. The incitement laws were introduced after the assasination of Rabin in '93, and we're seeing the same kind of rhetoric from the settlers once again. (because they're about to be moved (finally)).

The First Amendment was basically put in there to stop the government from interfering with what private citizens say about them, what newspapers print about them, and and guaranteeing the right to peacefully assemble in a public location. It's not a catch-all for being able to say or do or print what you like, wherever you want. While the government isn't allowed to say, "Hey, you can't say that about us," and then drag you off kicking and screaming to be shot later in the day, private parties are within their rights to take issue with you and refuse you entry or ask you to leave, or not print your article, or anything like that.

What's sad is that people read the First Amendment as "I can do anything I want", but what's even worse is that half these students would support government censorship.

Avder wrote: The younger peoples of this country need to be educated more thouroughly about why we need the freedoms we have granted to us by our bill of rights.

Then you can start by educating yourself. The Bill of Rights does not grant us freedoms. The freedoms were endowed to us by the Creator. The Bill of Rights limits national government. It restrains government from taking the freedoms we already have.

You always had freedom. It is government that takes it away from you. That is why government has to be light, fast, and efficient so that it can fulfill government functions without interfering with your freedom. That is why government that taxes less will be a lighter burden on your budget, so you will have more options to spend your money freely.

I think what Avder is saying, Marcus, is that if you want to get into a pissing contest about who you are, then start another thread with that topic and hash it out there. Nuff said??

Let's get this tread back on track. Lothar is right, high school students are always taking lumps for showing up poorly in polls like this; what was it, 30-60% or something couldn't point to where Washington DC was located on a map or something. Instead of going to the mall, maybe some of these kids need to spend more time in the library. And maybe some of them need to take their parent or parents with them.

I'm just wondering who in here voted for options 2 and 3 in the poll o_O

dissent wrote:I think what Avder is saying, Marcus, is that if you want to get into a pissing contest about who you are, then start another thread with that topic and hash it out there. Nuff said??

He said nothing of that sort in this thread. Check out what Avder posted so far here.

My post was relevant to this thread because it pointed out Avder's mistake in stating that the Bill of Rights actually grants rights. It does not. The Bill of Rights limits government with respect to the rights we already have. So if Avder advises that others should get a better handle on our system of government, then he should start with himself, the individual, before asking the many "young kids" out there. I've read the founding documents and there are a whole lot of things in there about what the government cannot do, not what the individual can do.

It is also likely that they are probably unaware that the Watchtower Society of New York, the legal organization behind the Jehovah's Witnesses, are by far, the strongest proponents of the 1st Ammendment rights and have won more Supreme Court battles over the first ammendment rights than all other organizations or individuals combined. You have no idea how many of our rights we enjoy today are a result of JW's efforts throughout the last century.

OK, KlubMarcus, I can make a mistake (now and then )

Say, Avder, I DO think I read something in the last couple of days where you mentioned that Marcus "stop hijacking threads". Am I delusional? I did a search and can't find it.

KlubMarcus wrote:The freedoms were endowed to us by the Creator.

You missed your true vocation in life: you should have been a comedian! That's damned funny. You can't honestly believe that? Can you? Oh Boy.

Mobius wrote:

KlubMarcus wrote:The freedoms were endowed to us by the Creator.

You missed your true vocation in life: you should have been a comedian! That's damned funny. You can't honestly believe that? Can you? Oh Boy.

Actually, the United States' Founding Fathers believed the same way that Marcus does, Mobi.

Besides, this is a topic about the First Amendment, not religious preferences. STFU Mobius.

Mobius wrote:

KlubMarcus wrote:The freedoms were endowed to us by the Creator.

You missed your true vocation in life: you should have been a comedian! That's damned funny. You can't honestly believe that? Can you? Oh Boy.

Ever read a little thing called the Declaration of Independence?

KlubMarcus wrote:

dissent wrote:I think what Avder is saying, Marcus, is that if you want to get into a pissing contest about who you are, then start another thread with that topic and hash it out there. Nuff said??

He said nothing of that sort in this thread. Check out what Avder posted so far here.

dissent wrote:Say, Avder, I DO think I read something in the last couple of days where you mentioned that Marcus "stop hijacking threads". Am I delusional? I did a search and can't find it.

See the announcement on the E&C thread topic page. Lothar did some post-deletions to prevent a flamewar. I had a post in here myself supporting Avder that got deleted (the deletion was reasonable, as I was nOObishly joining in the fracas).

Back on topic: I wonder.. would the poll results have been different with college students?

In general, especially for those with majors in the social sciences, they have a better grasp of the importance of first amendment rights. Not that high school students don't study such things; high school students just don't often pay as much attention, and haven't experienced as much responsibility (and thus don't have as much appreciation for the freedoms we have).