DescentBB

It's 3 AM and it's been a surreal evening. A year ago (has it been that long?) Tom and I met one of our neighbors in this apartment building. A woman and a man, living together, three kids (not his), him on SSI disability, her on child support. We had some serious fun together--the guy being a fellow nerd, we spent a lot of time swinging swords around with him.

We were there when her child support stopped coming, as her ex hid assets from the government. We were there when they were finally evicted--the first month, we got a little funding from a charity to help them stay, but eventually all we could do was help them move.

They broke up not long after they moved out of this building. We've stayed in close contact with him, and still regularly take care of him. We've only heard from her once or twice, mostly when she needed help moving from one homeless shelter to another. This makes the third time we've moved her since she left here--once from our apartment building, once from the YWCA to another shelter, and now. She had been to others, too--this was the fifth (or sixth?) move for them since they'd left our apartment building. And this was the worst--from a homeless shelter, not into another, but into a motel room.

We got the call at 6:30, rushed to rent a U-haul, spent all evening ferrying boxes and bags down stairs into the truck. By the time we got to her new place, it was 11:00, and we stared around in horror: the motel had two queen size beds, a tiny bathroom, and just a little room to walk around between them. She had three kids (7, 5, 18 mos), and we had a U-haul full of stuff from a 2 bedroom apartment.

Couldn't leave it in the truck, storage was expensive, there was only so much room at our place, and besides, they needed a lot of it day to day... somehow we crammed it all in, tilting one of the beds up on end and stacking to the ceiling. It was 1:30 AM when we left. She gave us most of her food--with a tiny fridge, no stove, and no space, flour and eggs weren't going to do her much good. The kids were bouncing off the walls and the 18 month old was periodically screaming--and they aren't back in school until Monday. She had $20 to feed the family, and the food-stamps get renewed in a week--and all she had to cook with was a microwave.

Knowing these people has been a long, sad story, and I mourn for them far beyond tears these days. But tonight was the worst. We left her living with three loud kids in a tiny motel room--all four sleeping on the same bed--with canned green beans and fig newtons to live on for a week, hoping the diapers/clean socks/school backpacks weren't buried hip deep in the pile of stuff that stretches to the ceiling. The blinds didn't cover the window all the way--we rolled up towels to keep out prying eyes. There was a wire duct-taped to the ceiling, cigarette burns everywhere, and a hole in the wall; outside thugly and questionable characters continually strutted by, confirming that the neighborhood was anything but nice--but with no car, she's going to have to brave it as best she can.

I'm going back tomorrow, of course, and bringing food. And I'll see what I can do about getting them out of the house... I just wish I could do more. I can't do a whole lot financially; our own budget is tight enough that we'll be feeling that Uhaul, at least until I can find a job myself. But I wish I knew more about the system. I wish I knew who to yell at. (Well, I do--her caseworker's boss--but I mean, I wish I knew who to yell at such that it would do some good.)

I feel such a great desire to help, and at the same time so powerless. It's now half past 3 AM, and there's no way I'm sleeping soon--I know where my friend is. And all the things that seemed so important to me melt away as petty struggles, and my own obsession with enchanting dragon scale mail now seems repulsive. In the middle of unloading the truck, Tom looked at me and said, "This is absolutely unacceptable in a society that values human life." And he was right.

I don't care what political stripe you are, this should not be. This woman is going to go insane before long, and these kids can't keep moving every two months. And I just wish...

I wish it wasn't. There are intolerable things that happen every day that you're powerless to stop, but knowing that doesn't make it more bearable. I can see the hurt that falls on what's left of this shattered family. I can hear it in the kids' voices. I can see the stress and insanity in my friend's eyes, and it is intolerable. And I can't stand it, and I can do so -little- about it.

That is such a sad story, yet it is a common one in America. You and Tom are great people for offering your time and money to help this family. I can't say I would be strong enough to do the same if I were in your shoes.

They are fortunate to have friends like you and Tom. I can imagine that Seattle is a tough town to be homeless in.

What a sad state of affairs of which I'm far too familiar. My sister took the same route in life.

I work at a local church as a counselor for a program that provides food to those in need. As counselor I see all of their assets, income, bills, etc ... I try to help them get focused on what they need to do to get out of their mess. Unfortunately most of the people I see don't have much of a chance to get their lives straightened out simply because they have been taught that they deserve a handout and keep waiting for such. Those that are willing to help themselves (and many are) are the ones that break my heart. I have lost count of the number of times I have been brought to my knees in tears because of the despair I see ...

Anyhow, because of this program, anyone in Huntsville AL that is unable to feed their family can get food. If they are willing to help themselves, they can continue to get such food until their situation eases up. This is not a government program ... it is a ministry of a local church ... the money is provided by the members of the church. Thats right; a bunch of selfish, self righteous, arrogant, judgemental, christians foot the bill (the same ones that take a lot of flak from many members of this community). I feel that it is a model by which all churches should compare their own ministries simply because it works.

This problem can be solved if only American's will get their heads out of their @$$E$ and quit being so stingy. If one church can provide food for most of the impoverished (willing to help themselves) in a city of 250,000 then another few churches could do a lot more ... say housing? employment training?

I would urge any of you that take pity on this woman and her family to get off your duff and do something other than just feeling sad about it. Urge your church to start some sort of ministry to help these people. If they get serious about it then take the bull by the horns and volunteer for a leadership position.

The problem may not be solveable but you can sure make a serious dent in the despair so many people face in your area ...

Whoa @ the triple post iceman.

Thats right; a bunch of selfish, self righteous, arrogant, judgemental, christians foot the bill (the same ones that take a lot of flak from many members of this community).

You are not being very fair there.

I would urge any of you that take pity on this woman and her family to get off your duff and do something other than just feeling sad about it. Urge your church to start some sort of ministry to help these people. If they get serious about it then take the bull by the horns and volunteer for a leadership position.

Yeah, that's a thought. My little church has a tiny benevolence program--gets about $150/mo in special offerings from the congregation. That won't go far in helping her--she needs advocacy to get housing, legal help to get her back child support, and cheap daycare if she's going to have a prayer of supporting herself. Nasty situation, and she already keeps pretty busy just jumping through the hoops to get what she has.

Still... I had thought of asking my pastor on Sunday if anything could be done. That's a good suggestion.

Went by there today, and she's doing all right. The place she's living still really sucks (just found out--the door doesn't lock securely. How cool is that??! ), and the kids are still bouncing off the walls, but... she'll live. She's got food now, and she's working with her case worker to try to get housing elsewhere, and... life goes on.

*sigh*

Lets continue the myth that reproductive rights should remain unabridged and not anyone elses business.

I have a better idea, woody: let's complain about the children this woman had while she was married, and let's blame her for the fact that her husband had an internet affair and left her, and hasn't paid child support since August. Let's pretend government restrictions on reproduction would fix all the world's problems, while we ignore the problems in front of us. That's a brilliant idea!

Lothar wrote:I have a better idea, woody: let's complain about the children this woman had while she was married, and let's blame her for the fact that her husband had an internet affair and left her, and hasn't paid child support since August. Let's pretend government restrictions on reproduction would fix all the world's problems, while we ignore the problems in front of us. That's a brilliant idea!

No, brillant is understanding that having children is a huge undertaking, both emotionally and monetariy. Too many people have a cavalier notion that being a parent is no more work than say, buying a puppy and raising it. Brillant would have been the woman and her husband discussing beforehand the idea of raising a family. Brillant would have been, upon deciding divorce, how the raising of the children would be handled and not one immature party running away from his obligations. The only good I see here is how both you and Drakona have stepped in to help out.

Folks, lets keep it civil.

Time to cut your losses and let them fend for themselves. They are adults and they must face their own responsibilities for their own self sustained support. You cannot save the world. People who live on handouts never learn to take care of themselves. I was homeless for a while so I know what I'm talking about. I returned and was helped by my relatives, but ultimately, it was my responsibility to get a job and get my own place, even if it mean renting a bedroom from some stranger. Yes, I stooped and got a job at McDonalds, and various pizza places. She can do that too. There are all kinds of places that help teach people like them marketable skills for free.

At some point you're gonna have to let go, its not your responsibility. But it is good that you helped them thus far. So don't flame me because I speak the truth.

Krom wrote: Thats right; a bunch of selfish, self righteous, arrogant, judgemental, christians foot the bill (the same ones that take a lot of flak from many members of this community).

You are not being very fair there.

I think he was being sarcastic.

woodchip wrote:
No, brillant is understanding that having children is a huge undertaking, both emotionally and monetariy. Too many people have a cavalier notion that being a parent is no more work than say, buying a puppy and raising it. Brillant would have been the woman and her husband discussing beforehand the idea of raising a family. Brillant would have been, upon deciding divorce, how the raising of the children would be handled and not one immature party running away from his obligations. The only good I see here is how both you and Drakona have stepped in to help out.

I agree. I have little sympathy for her, but I feel for those kids.

It's always easier to judge people and lack sympathy when you don't know them personally.

Also, it's hard enough for a married woman with a house to care for three kids while working. Gotta be real tough for a divorced homeless woman to work and still keep the kids out of trouble.

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I think everyone in this thread makes good points.

"I am only one, but still I am one. I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. And because I cannot do everything, I will not refuse to do the something that I can do."
-Edward Everett Hale

I'm proud of you guys.

In Denver, we have a cooperative effort of 28 churches providing a food bank and clothing bank, and refer to other groups that can help with other aspects.

At our own church, we provide a Sunday morning breakfast which has attracted quite a few homeless people. Part of that ministry is to sit and talk and get to know them. The problems can be complex. One man, Bill, had a stroke which has left him blind. The doctors have told him he may recover with lots of rest - the shelters turn you out early in the morning.

We first got involved in this issue in the late 60s and early 70s through a coffeehouse ministry. Initially, we had cake, cookies, and other snacks, but we found a lot of the people coming in weren't getting good nutrition. Jojo was a man with the mind of a child, who needed to be reminded to eat, and not just cookies and cake. So we switched to snack crackers with cheese and peanut butter, and began providing bags of nonperishable foods to some.

No, we couldn't do it all. But we could make a difference for some.

...Maybe if she didn't pump out three kids she'd be better off...

...Lets continue the myth that reproductive rights should remain unabridged and not anyone elses business...

...I have little sympathy for her...

Guys, go back and read Drakona's post again, because apparently you missed the point.

Nowhere does she talk about who is to blame for this family's horrible situation, or make any accusations about how many kids the woman was taking care of. Drakona was voicing her feelings on what I can only assume was a very heart-wrenching night, attempting to do what little they could, and wishing they could do more.

jcdarrow wrote:

...Time to cut your losses and let them fend for themselves... You cannot save the world...

No, we couldn't do it all. But we could make a difference for some.

Exactly! I know it's clichéd, but it's very, very true.

We should all strive to do what we can. I'm not just talking money, either... while it's true that monetary handouts can be misused, monetary donations to reputable organizations can go extremely far in other ways. I'm talking about the hard things, things that take one's personal energy and time, and especially personal involvement: getting to know the people, taking your time to help move their belongings, etc.

People who live on handouts never learn to take care of themselves... There are all kinds of places that help teach people like them marketable skills for free...

You don't seriously think that if this person had the opportunity to change the situation for her children, and the ability to do so (i.e. if she had access to all the information about available opportunities, transportation of some kind, people to watch her children, no physical or mental disabilities, exceptional courage to overcome the stigma of poverty and swallow her pride to ask for help), she wouldn't? See Drakona's second post, especially in regards to how hard this person is working just for what shelter she has.

Like I said above, monetary handouts aren't always a good idea, but we must at least do what we can.

...

Drakona, Lothar,

I'm not sure I have any great suggestions, but since your local church doesn't have the resources to help in a significant way, you might try getting in touch with someone at a larger or more affluent church. My wife and I have a neighbor who was finally moving out of a horrible situation (three families in a small dilapidated two-bedroom rental), but who had no furniture whatsoever; she desperately needed beds for herself and two kids. We couldn't do anything ourselves, but we finally got in touch with a pastor at a medium-sized but affluent church in our area. A simple note in the program at that church, and three good beds turned up almost immediately. I had to get my dad to help move the beds with his truck, and take some of my own time to help the family move, but it was worth it.

Foil wrote: You don't seriously think that if this person had the opportunity to change the situation for her children, and the ability to do so (i.e. if she had access to all the information about available opportunities, transportation of some kind, people to watch her children, no physical or mental disabilities, exceptional courage to overcome the stigma of poverty and swallow her pride to ask for help), she wouldn't?

No, I don't. I read the posts and I see no indication of someone who is doing her best to do anything. All I see is alot of blaming of the 'system' that put her where she is. She was living off child support and some sleazeball's disability, and you're going to say she's a victim? Be serious.

I'm dead serious, and I have no idea where you're getting this stuff. This is what I'm reading:

Drakona wrote:...We were there when her child support stopped coming, as her ex hid assets from the government...
...she's going to have to brave it as best she can.
...I wish I knew who to yell at. (Well, I do--her caseworker's boss--but I mean, I wish I knew who to yell at such that it would do some good.)
I feel such a great desire to help, and at the same time so powerless...
..."This is absolutely unacceptable in a society that values human life." And he was right.
I don't care what political stripe you are, this should not be. This woman is going to go insane before long, and these kids can't keep moving every two months...
...she needs advocacy to get housing, legal help to get her back child support, and cheap daycare if she's going to have a prayer of supporting herself. Nasty situation, and she already keeps pretty busy just jumping through the hoops to get what she has...

Lothar wrote:...let's complain about the children this woman had while she was married, and let's blame her for the fact that her husband had an internet affair and left her, and hasn't paid child support since August....That's a brilliant idea!

If you have problems with the poor, fine. But don't go accusing every poor person of laziness or stupidity without at the very least finding out what's holding them back.

Like I said, this kind of "it's her own fault!" attitude is totally off the subject. The original post was about a specific situation, and about the frustration of not being able to do much about it.

Drakona and Lothar have at least stepped outside the rhetoric and done what they can. We should all have such compassion.

Wow, some of you people are heartless!

Perhaps she could be doing more than she is to improve her situation, and perhaps not. And maybe it's her fault that she's where she is, and maybe it isn't. To be honest, though I know bits and pieces, I don't fully know.

Does it really matter?

She's a friend and she needs help. What does anything else matter?

Sometimes people do need tough love; that's another way of taking care of them. But it takes wisdom to discern that, which in turn comes from experience and making mistakes. In the mean time, I have to make do with what little wisdom I have, and make mistakes. That's not a reason not to try.

When it comes to my friend, I'm not wise enough to be able to say I know what she should do--in fact, it's quite the opposite: her problems seem so hard to me that I feel helpless to suggest or do anything. I am already amazed by how well she deals with them. I can't even suggest a solution, let alone be sure enough of it that I would dare try to push her into doing it. And then to suggest that I refuse to help on those grounds, in the situation she's in? "Yeah, I know you and your kids are going to be on the street shortly, but I think it's all your fault in the first place, so screw you."

I can't fathom the cold-heartedness of that.

Compassion is called for here, not judgement. It's not my place to self-righteously say, "Ha, you should do better than that--like me!" to anyone, whether they are living in a hip-deep-messy mouse-infested house, living in a homeless shelter, fighting a child custody suit with an ex-girlfriend, or in jail. It's not my job to judge, just to be there with people and to help.

Drakona, bottom line...you are a very decent person and this board is blessed to have you post here. Keep doing what you can.

If there's any way that any of us here can help, just let us know. Maybe we could get some sort of donation fund going for them. In the meantime, though, both of you are true saints for doing what you're doing.

Draconia wrote:Wow, some of you people are heartless!

i was expecting even less. i'm impressed

Top Gun wrote:If there's any way that any of us here can help, just let us know. Maybe we could get some sort of donation fund going for them. In the meantime, though, both of you are true saints for doing what you're doing.

That is not a bad idea. I would be willing to give some.

Wow, I'm mildly shocked and even more ashamed of some of the posts I've read here. I really hope some of you guys get to go REALLY hungry for a while. It's not fun. I have, in the past, had to call on such help my self and this is while I've been doing everyting I could to provide for my family.

Not having a college education throws a big wrench in the ability to make a "Good living". As it is, keeping our heads above water is about the best we can do. About the time we "get ahead in the game"; Wham! something comes outta nowhere and buries us in a hole that takes months to get out of.

I say this not for my attention, but to show that stuff happens to people that they can not avoid. "fending for themselves" is a cold thing to say. Particulary from you You Lobber who touts your religious affiliation so often. I direct you to Matthew 25:31-46. I am appauled.



I heistate to mention this as I do not want to derail or detract from the families involved; but this is what Bush ment by having communites and churches get involved in welfare. (or something like that) It is "OUR" responsibility to care for each other. NOT the federal government. In deed, you do Not want the Federal government involved and handling individual lives. That is not thier function. This should be handled on the civil level. These are individuals and need help one on one. That is the only way people get truely helped.

Drakona, Lothar. Keep up the great work and hang in there. See if you can get a church (as forementioned) to help; either yours - which sounds like it had limited resources- or another. My prayers are with you.


Krom: I disagree with you here. While that specific may not have been said thus in this forum, but the idea has certainly been conveyed more than once in the past. In this I point at no one specific. Also, I'm sure Icy runs into this attitude often in his community. It is rather common. I see it frequently here in Portland. :


My wife suggested that tthis woman finds legal council/aid conserning the support. And also in seeking protection from having her children taken from her in the future.

Dedman wrote:

Top Gun wrote:If there's any way that any of us here can help, just let us know. Maybe we could get some sort of donation fund going for them. In the meantime, though, both of you are true saints for doing what you're doing.

That is not a bad idea. I would be willing to give some.

Awww, that's sweet of you guys. Honestly, though, I don't think it would help--what needs to be taken care of in terms of emergency needs has already been taken care of. It's the long-term problems that are so frustratingly difficult. If you're inspired to help, though, I bet there are people close to you whose situations are as bad or worse.

Honestly, I wasn't looking for help or admiration or anything... it was just a crazy evening and I wanted to vent.

I appreciate the advice, though, and the suggestion to seek out Christian organizations in the area seems like good advice. I did talk to my pastor, and he put me in touch with some churches/ministries that could help, so I'll check in with my friend (to see if she's found anything) and call around tomorrow, and we'll see how things work out.

Good for you guys, Drakona, Lothar. That's an unfortunate situation. :\ I can relate with the feeling of helplessness, to some degree, and with the want of wisdom on the (a) subject. I think it's a good assumption that we've all got a lot to learn about life, and probably even more than ever, due to the state of society and the majority of "churches". I say churches because they are generally seen as places one would go to find clerity/what's right, but today many that I've seen just add to the confusion. I've been through some difficulties, even if a lot of them existed largely in my mind (story of a teen-ager's young life). One of the most important lessons I've learned, thus far, is the importance of, for lack of a better phrase, loving the truth. And I don't mean just truth as in biblical truth, but truth in everyday life--the way things really are, no matter how we may feel about it.
I continue to learn about life, and my hope and aim is to get it right. That way I can only have a positive effect on any people I come in contact or deal with, and even set a good example. If and when I get married, it will also be my responsibility to point my children in the right direction. Sobering, particularly when you look at it from a generational perspective. That's a good reason to get it right.
In that past year or so, I've really come to appreciate the good examples in my life, the greatest being my dad. My dad has an absolutely amazing work ethic, to list only the most pertinent example. He seems very well aquainted with the fact that the world doesn't owe anyone a living. He has told my brothers and sisters and I that "in life you have to do whatever it takes". Not to suggest unlawful or immoral activity, of course. A good example is a bit of wisdom he took from his mom: "if you don't have a job, make a career out of getting one."

Anyway, here's to learning. Good luck to you guys, and I really hope everything turns out ok for this lady and her children. Maybe one of the greatest ways you could help would be to baby-sit once in a while, if she's up to doing something effective about her situation? I guess that might depend on how close you are, and what kind of person she is (i.e. would she take advantage of you). Kind of blunt, but they're just some thoughts; at the same time I appreciate and recognize the fact that you're not asking for help.

I feel like there's more I'd like to say, but I've never been as good at expressing things as I'd like to be, and it's getting pretty late. BTW, on a scale of 1 to Rambling how would you rate this? Goodnight!