DescentBB

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... index.html

BEIJING, China (CNN) -- China has unveiled a controversial new law that would allow Beijing to use military action against Taiwan if peaceful means fail to stop the island pursuing independence

On Sunday, China's Foreign Minister Li Zhaoxing warned Japan and the United States against interfering in China's internal affairs, especially regarding Taiwan.

"Any practice of putting Taiwan directly or indirectly into the scope of Japan-U.S. security cooperation constitutes an encroachment on China's sovereignty and interference in internal affairs," Li told a news conference

Washington is bound to defend Taiwan's security in the event of any attack from the mainland, but has increasingly warned Taipei against unilateral moves to change the status quo.

Those are just the highlights, you should read the whole article. Not good. As if we don't have our hands full enough. It's sureal with respect to WWII: who was our friend and who was our enemy has gone a complete 360.

China isn't going to make a move against Taiwan... they consider it an "internal affair" and they keep telling us to stay out of it, but they won't make a move unless they can get the US to agree that it's an internal affair.

In retaliation all we have to do is ban imported goods from China. Thats like what...40% of Chinas GNP?

Like Wal Mart and every other retailer would ever let that happen. How much of our crap comes from that low wage sweatshop country?

That low wage sweatshop country will be The global power along with India within one hundred years. Mark my words. Pucker up and start learning the symbols boys!!!

"Any practice of putting Taiwan directly or indirectly into the scope of Japan-U.S. security cooperation constitutes an encroachment on China's sovereignty and interference in internal affairs,"

Actually, I think they may have a point.

Dedman wrote:

"Any practice of putting Taiwan directly or indirectly into the scope of Japan-U.S. security cooperation constitutes an encroachment on China's sovereignty and interference in internal affairs,"

Actually, I think they may have a point.

Not so fast. What makes you think the chinese have legal rights to Taiwan?:

"The Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895, when the Chinese Imperial government ceded sovereignty over Taiwan to Japan in perpetuity,"

Did the Japanese give it back?

woodchip wrote:Not so fast. What makes you think the chinese have legal rights to Taiwan?:

"The Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895, when the Chinese Imperial government ceded sovereignty over Taiwan to Japan in perpetuity,"

Did the Japanese give it back?

According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan it looks like 50 years later, Japan gave up control of Taiwan. It looks like Taiwan is controlled by the pre-Communist government of China, so it's not quite "Chinese", but pretty close. It'd sort of be along the lines of Puerto Rico, I guess, where they're not quite free, but not really part of the main government, either.

So it looks like Taiwan's definitely not Japanese anymore, but it's not really completely Chinese, either.

To really cloud the issue:

"The treaty remained silent about who the island would be transferred to, in part to avoid taking sides in the ongoing Chinese Civil War. This has been used by advocates of Taiwan independence to justify self-determination."

Dedman wrote:...they may have a point.

So it looks as though my earlier statement stands

So it looks as though my earlier statement stands

hah, didn't think the taiwan issue would hit da DBB but as a taiwanese, i will give you guys my 5 cents worth, and a non news type approach.

First of all, Taiwanese gov't has been on a barking mood lately, wanting independence, talks of retaliation if china invades etc. Current president Chen, has realized the risks in taunting China and has stopped. Former president Lee is still babbling on and on, he still wields incredible influence over congress. which leads to bills that favor independence.

Secondly, Hu Jintao of the PRC, has just been "sworn" in. he would lose face if he was, to stand by and watch as taiwan trash talks thier goverment. The older generation of the communists still have influence in the halls of people or whatever the hell they call it. Keep in mind Hu, is a very progressive man. Wanting reforms and such, but at the same time, he would lose respect if he does not take action against Taiwan in the event of move towards indepence. so he is stuck in a catch-22.

Even though US has a treaty to protect taiwan. I doubt the US would really want to wade in this muck, with flying fists and all. Especially with so much money owed to China by all the US corporations that do business with China, (thanks cheap shirts and Nike!). US may just stand by and watch the action on CNN or FOX heh. It wouldn't be the first time, anyone remember the Falkland Islands and the UK? look it up. US has a precedent. But also china economy is booming as a direct cause of taiwan, we have a lot of companies who go to china and allow the govt to rake in millions upon millions. (kingston, ASUS, ECS are all Taiwan companies)

From what I read Wang, the really scary part is the average chinese on the street has a emotional feeling of nationalistic pride that Taiwan should be "forced" back if need be.
Also, correct me if I am wrong, but one reason mainland China has not invade Taiwan (besides America) is Taiwan has some pretty good shore defenses.

Good stuff, Wang. Always good to get info from close to the source than "the media says" or "Google says".

Think anything'll actually happen, or just both sides making big talk that'll settle down after a while and nothing will really have changed?

well, the average chinese person don't really have nationalistic feeling, they "know" that taiwan belongs to china. there is no doubt in their heads, it is common knowledge. there was a restaurant in Shanghai, with a giant map of the world. the artist drew in taiwan and labeled it taiwan, and man did the public blow up on him. Taiwan has a decent army, with decent shore defenses. but the main thing is that china does not have alot landing crafts. they weren't capable of successfully launching at full assault. but now with chinese economy booming, who knows what they have. Not like we civilians know what they buy. But they have missiles from here to wazoo, and most of them aimed at taiwan. They have plans drawn up to immobilize the taiwanese air force, and main bases as well. Taiwan has also said they have the capability to shell the city of shanghai.

BTW Taiwan has two small islands that are in seeing distance of china. one is a massive base under rock, that serves as our early warning system. actually in 1982, they had a big artillery shootout with china lasting for several days with no clear victory for either side.a little factoid: when Taiwan planes need to drop people off in Kinmen, they don't actually land, in fear of getting shot down by the communists, they do a rolling stop and take off again. Also the initiation test for our SEAL team is being able to swim over to the mainland beach, plant a taiwanese flag and swim back undetected. our SEAL team is more underwater and demolition operations, then infiltrate and neutralize like the US version of SEAL.

Hopefully it doesn't come to any of that.