DescentBB

I've finally narrowed down most of what I'm going to put into my new rig. I'd really appreciate any suggestions or recommendations on how to improve this new system:



Tsunami black windowed case
500w power supply with leds

AMD Athlon 64 3400 939pin

Abit IC7-MAX3 MB
(Abit MB IC7 P4 Intel875P Socket478 8MHz 4DDR AGP-Pro8X 5PCI SATA15 wAudio Raid 8USB2. 1394 HT)

1024 MB Kingston Memory KVR400X64C3A/512 2 @ 512MB PC3200 DDR DIMM 400MHz

Gigabyte Nvidia 6800GT

Mitsumi 7 in 1 Card Reader / 3.5" drive

SOUND BLASTER AUDIGY 2 ZS (standard version for $70 or so)

a mod kit with a couple of fans/cathodes

I still need to pick out a:

*dvd r/w
*cd/cd-rw
(I have an existing 80gb 8mb cache HD that I'll use)

any suggestions on these?


and I have a couple of questions:
** video card: AGP or PCI-Express? (this effects the mb I choose)(from everything I've read, it seems AGP is just fine...?)


**video card: Is it worth $10 or so more to get the 6800GT OC ? BFG has this card at Best Buy for $400
(for that matter, I read that the 6600GT is just fine for a system like this...that could save $150 which could go for better memory...)

**memory: Is there a huge jump in performance with corsair memory?

this project has grown from just upgrading my MB/CPU to a full blown new system...

thanks for any suggestions!

-RM

Hate to break it to you, but you can't put a AMD Athlon 64 CPU in a Pentium 4 motherboard yo.

939 pin CPU, 478 pin mobo, total square peg round hole you have going there.

Ack! Originally I was going to go with a p4 3.2, but I keep hearing AMD 64bit chip is much better, so I figured I'd give it a try...thanks for catching that!
have an AMD MB suggestion? I was looking to spend about $120 or so...

how about this mb?
Gigabyte Motherboard GA-K8NF-9 AMD Athlon 64 FX nForce4 4X Socket939 FSB1600MHz Audio SATA RAID Lan ATX

Tomorrow I'll dig up some of the better 939 boards and post some links.

I'm using the MSI Neo2 Platinum in my new computer. My specification is a little lower but (for various reasons, financially not least of them) I intentionally left some room to grow.

-K8N Neo2 Platinum
-AMD Athlon 64 3000+
-1 GB OCZ DDR PC-3200 Dual Channel Platinum Rev 2 (2x512MBDIMM)
-BFG nVidia GeForce FX 6600 GT OC
-FORTRON400 FSP400 PSU
-PRIMARY IDE: Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 ATA/100 7200RPM Hard Drive
-SECONDARY IDE: Sony|DDU1621 DVD ROM (master) / NEC|ND-2500A DVD-RW (slave)

The only downfall I forsee at present is if PCIe becomes the new standard for video cards, as this motherboard only supports AGP. Other than that, the upgrade path is promising.

I have heard less then favorible comments about the Neo2 Platnum in forums lately, might want to check out some of the other 939 boards first.

I have good experiences with the MSI Neo 2 motherboard. I highly reccomend you check out the MSI K8N Neo 4 Platinum or its variant that does SLI. Though IMO, SLI is all hype so id get the Platinum.

http://www.msicomputer.com/product/p_li ... s=mb&cpu=3

Matrix just built himself a athlon 64 939 pin system, he is gonna post about some stuff that should help you out.

ReadyMan wrote: AMD Athlon 64 3400 939pin

Nice!

Just so you know, AMD doesn't make a 3400 in s939, the only 3400 is a s754.

The closet comparison to that would be a 3500 s939.
And then with that you have a choice of the 3500 in either 130nm or 90nm.

I own a MSI neo2 plat. It is a good stable board if you don't care about accurate temp and voltage readings

And IMO its one of the best s939 overclocking boards, mostly because all of the nf3 s939 boards suck really bad right now DFI NF4 if you want anything decent

Though completely overkill if you are not going to overclock.

If you care about upgrading the system later on with a better CPU (because s939 is newer and will be supported longer), and benchmark/game a lot. I would go with a 3200 or 3500 s939 90nm.
The 90nm gives you an advantage equal to about 200MHz at equal clock speeds when comparing a 90nm or a 130nm Chips. Plus the s939 has support for dual channel memory. And just so you know, you need 2 sticks of ram to take advantage of dual channel.

And all for about the same chip price.

Though if you want to save some money, and will probably build an entirely new system next time you upgrade, not worrying if they still make CPUs in the socket you are running. Then I would go with a s754. You could go with a cheaper MB like the Chaintech VNF3-250. I built my sister a system around this board. She uses it for Photoshop all day and it is 100% stable. Iâ??ve also gamed/stress tested on it, it is a solid board if you are not going to overclock.

So s939 if you want a slightly better system now and care about upgrading. Or s754 if you want to save some money with only a marginal decrease in performance and don't care about CPU upgrades.

Also what brand PSU is that 500w going to be?

Its also same thing for PCIe, if you are not going to run SLI, then the only real advantage PCIe has over AGP is upgrading flexibility. Since they say the current video cards canâ??t max the AGP bus out anyway.

I went AGP when I built my system because at the time PCIe cards were $100 more then the AGP for the same GPU. And I donâ??t really care about SLI because it is supported by so few games (Iâ??m sure that will change though and I didnâ??t want to spend $800 on 2 cards. I am very happy with my 3200 and 6800GT combo though, I play HL2 at 1280x960 4x AA and 8x AF and it pretty much holds it at the 100Hz vsync limit

Itâ??s all about if you want to upgrade later or buy an entire system.

If you want to go all balls out, and future proof:
DFI NF4 MB
3000/3200/3500 90nm s939 CPU
PCIe 6800GT (soon DFI will release an AGP NF4 board though)

Or the next level down with:
MSI neo2 plat.
3000/3200/3500 90n, s939 CPU
AGP 6800GT

Or your money saver, build an entirely new system next time you upgrade system:
Chaintech VNF3-250
3000/3200/3400 130nm s754 CPU
AGP 6800GT

ReadyMan wrote: **video card:
(for that matter, I read that the 6600GT is just fine for a system like this...that could save $150 which could go for better memory...)

If your going to spend your money on a 3500 / 1GB of ram and a $70 sound card I would deff not cheap out on a 6600GT. IMO the 6800GT is way more then worth the extra money.
I lurb mine =) little less then 1,300 in 3dmark 03

ReadyMan wrote: **video card: Is it worth $10 or so more to get the 6800GT OC ? BFG has this card at Best Buy for $400

Iâ??d say yes if you are not up to overclocking one of the other cards that are not manufacture overclocked.

A stock 6800GT is clocked to 350/1000
The BFG OC is overclocked to 375/1000
That is a very small increase, but IMO totally worth the $10 if your not going to OC it your self.

I have the same Gigabyte 6800GT you are thinking about getting and I have it running at 400/1100. I also have a 80MM fan stamped on it though.

ReadyMan wrote: *dvd r/w
*cd/cd-rw
(I have an existing 80gb 8mb cache HD that I'll use)

any suggestions on these?

NEC / Plextor for the DVDRW Drive
Lite-on / Plextor CD-RW

I recommend the NEC 3520A

Anything for CDRW, doesnâ??t matter

And that ram your thinking about is crap Fine for windows, but if you care about tight timings and gaming performance, you wont get much out of that ram. Get some better stuff

And unless you care about extra options the onboard sound with current motherboards is good stuff. Would save you $70bux on the audigy.


As a reference for you these are my system specs:

MSI neo2 Platinum
A64 3200 Winchester 90nm s939
Thermalright XP90 w/ AS5 + 74CFM Delta Fan
G.Skill LE (TCCD) 3200(2-2-2-5) 4400(2.5-3-3-7)
Gigabyte 6800GT AGP + 80MM fan @ 400/1100
Forton 530w
Plextor 708a 8x DVD-RW
Lite-on 40x12x48x CD-RW
WD 2500JB
WD 1200JB

Great information everyone. Thanks!

Matrix wrote:If you care about upgrading the system later on with a better CPU (because s939 is newer and will be supported longer), and benchmark/game a lot. I would go with a 3200 or 3500 s939 90nm.

I do want to upgrade this system down the road. My current rig has been going thru mb/cpu replacements since 2000.

Matrix wrote: Also what brand PSU is that 500w going to be?

this is the one I had picked out:
A+GPB Titanium 500w Power Supply w/ Magic Chaning LEDs

Matrix wrote: Its also same thing for PCIe, if you are not going to run SLI, then the only real advantage PCIe has over AGP is upgrading flexibility. Since they say the current video cards canâ??t max the AGP bus out anyway.

I will DEFINITELY be keeping this video card with my next system. (My 5900 has been in 2 systems so far) So I care about upgrading with it, though I seriously doubt I would ever get another for SLI.

Matrix wrote: If you want to go all balls out, and future proof:
DFI NF4 MB
3000/3200/3500 90nm s939 CPU
PCIe 6800GT (soon DFI will release an AGP NF4 board though)

I do want to do this, though I dont know much about MBs...I read some of the reviews on this board, and most had in common the thought that this board is not for the faint hearted...but for the serious OCer.

I'll OC my mb but nothing beyond some good compound and a heatsink and a few fans...
Stability is a major issue for me.

Matrix wrote: IMO the 6800GT is way more then worth the extra money.

I'm sold on the 6800GT.

Matrix wrote: NEC / Plextor for the DVDRW Drive
Lite-on / Plextor CD-RW

I recommend the NEC 3520A

thanks for the recommendations. these look awesome.

Matrix wrote: And that ram your thinking about is crap Fine for windows, but if you care about tight timings and gaming performance, you wont get much out of that ram. Get some better stuff

I stumbled across this corsair memory at newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde ... 450&DEPA=1
It looks like 2 sticks of 512mb corsair for a total of 1 gb of memory for $189. that's pretty good for corsair memory, right?



how about this mb?
Gigabyte Motherboard GA-K8NF-9 AMD Athlon 64 FX nForce4 4X Socket939 FSB1600MHz Audio SATA RAID Lan ATX


I was hoping to keep this rig at around $1000, but see now that this isnt possible. I think I can come up with $1500, which would be my maximum limit.

To be honest, with RAM and Power supplies, you get what you pay for.

The RAM that Matrix is using and can attest to its superb quality is here. This is a very specific kit of RAM, and is superior to anything in corsair's current products in both latency and overclocking (which is probably why it sells out so fast ).

As far as a PSU goes, I don't like the sound of that one you picked out one bit and I advise caution. I am using this one, it is rock solid all the time even though I have a heavily overclocked system and I am using all the power connectors on the PSU with the exception of only the SATA power connector. The PSU is a very important part of the system, looks matter far less then performance.

A motherboard recommendation if you choose the PCIe video card route would be the DFI "LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR" which reviewed quite well on Anandtech . Don't let the "serious overclocker only" scare you off from a motherboard, because a board is a serious overclocker means you should expect absolute stability from it at default clocks or even at more aggressive speeds. And the features on that board sell even at default speeds. Keep in mind that just because you have a SLI motherboard does not mean you must use SLI video cards, they still work just fine with only one video card.

If you do choose PCIe take a note that these motherboards DO NOT have AGP slots so you must have a PCIe video card. Since you want to get some more work out of this machine through upgrades later, getting a PCIe motherboard, even at this price would be a good idea; AGP motherboards are nearing a dead end. If you wanted to upgrade an AGP system later, you would be forced to buy a new motherboard and video card which would be near a $500 dollar investment.

I agree with krom, ditch that PSU, it wonâ??t get you very far. With a PSU like that no matter how good of a motherboard you buy you wonâ??t be guaranteed a stable system. Especially while overclocked.

I second the PSU krom recommend, both me and him run the same one =)
Though for a system that might some day be running dual 6800GTâ??s in SLI I would recommend something with a little more brass on the 12v. Also if you went with this PSU and the DFI NF4 SLI-DR board you will need a 20pin to 24pin ATX converter that it does not come with. Itâ??s a standard 20pin ATX PSU and the DFI MB has a 24pin ATX power plug.

The Forton Blue Storm 500w is a better solution for your setup though I think. It has dual 12v rails with a total of 30A vs the 18A of the Forton 530w, perfect for an SLI setup. And it also comes with the 20 to 24pin ATX connector, even though a lot of people use this converter I should tell you that some people still recommended to get a PSU that has a native 24pin connector.

Though and even better choice for a little more money would be the OCZ Power Stream 520w. This is a much newer PSU, I believe it is a native 24pin PSU, has power connectors for PCIe video cards (you would need adapters with the other PSUâ??s), also supports BTX if you ever switch to a new case in the future =) Another big plus is that it is a modular PSU so you donâ??t have to deal with all of those extra unused wires. And the wires are already sleeved.

For a system that might be running SLI in the future I think the OCZ is your best option, but I still listed the others for you incase you donâ??t mind dealing with multiple converters and wanted to save some money.
Before I built my current system I was planning to go with an SLI NF4 setup and was going to use this same OCZ PSU. But decided against the SLI because for the reasons I talked about above, so when I switched to an AGP setup I downgraded to the Forton 530w.

What ever you decide on, stay away from Antec PSU's if your using an AMD 90nm CPU, there seems to be some instablilty issue that A LOT of people are getting. I lurb Antec, they are my 2nd fav PSU company but there seems to be some issue here.

As for the Corsair Ram you linked to, very decent ram. It has fairly good timings for PC-3200 speeds. That ram will get you by with no problems, though as soon as you start raising you FSB those timings are going to shoot up extremely fast unless you use a divider. Even though you said you are only going with a mild overclock I would still recommend some TCCD chip that will do 2-2-2-5 at PC-3200, that way your timings will be a little more realistic as you raise your FSB for only a few more dollars.
This Corsair is one option, though I think a little more then you want to spend.
This Kingston Rated for the same speeds/timings as the corsair but a little cheaper. So which ever brand you like better would decide between those two. Krom also bought this ram for him self. Though he got defective sticks and had to RMA it.
I donâ??t think this Kingston uses TCCD chips but still has pretty good timings for the money, (2-3-2-6).
-Either of this kingstons are your best bet I think.

ReadyMan wrote: how about this mb?
Gigabyte Motherboard GA-K8NF-9 AMD Athlon 64 FX nForce4 4X Socket939 FSB1600MHz Audio SATA RAID Lan ATX

I think if you are going to go with a board that has PCIe, you might as well get one that has SLI support. If you are going with PCIe for itâ??s upgrading abilities then not getting one that has SLI you are kind stepping on your own foot (Paying extra for PCIe and not using one of its best abilities). Because there is no better upgrade then just slapping in a 2nd video card when you need some more power. The buy 1 card now buy 1 card later idea. =) Also down the road SLI will be supported buy a lot more games, a 2nd 6800GT will cost a lot less then the first, and probably a lot less then a single card that would out perform 2x 6800GTâ??s.
For this I would recommend the DFI board.

Summarization of what Iâ??m recommendingâ?¦
DFI Lanparty NF4 SLI-DR
AMD 64 3200+ Winchester .90nm
Kingston HyperX 3200 512x2 (2-2-2-5)
Any Brand 6800GT PCIe (1 now 1 later)
OCZ PowerStream 520w

Iâ??m to lazy to look up the prices for everything, but if it goes over your budget lmk

And are you planning to use the retail AMD HSF?

EDIT: Another review on the DFI board [H]ere
And another site I use besides newegg:
http://gameve.com/

EDIT2: There seems to be a compatibility issue with the OCZ PSU and the DFI SLI-DR, some transistors are too close to the ATX power plug from what it seems. Read about it in this thread. (5th post explains the specific problem.)
Not everyone seems to have a problem with it though.

One other factor I hadnt mentioned is that I have a friend who's putting this system together for me (he's got a pc shop and does tech support).
He mentioned to me that I should think about the
Abit MB Fatal1ty AN8 AMD K8 NF4 Ultra Socket939...

I like the looks of the Lanparty mb though...

I had no idea on the PSU. I was just thinking of something to have enough juice for the 6800. I had no clue that the PSU was so important. I've never had one go out on me.
the Fortron is just a bit more than I was planning on spending, but close enough.

I've got some more reading to do. thank you VERY MUCH for all your imput!

No problem =)

I don't think the Fatal1ty has been released yet, if it has, not in big quantities yet.
There should be some reviews on it though.

btw, it doesnâ??t have SLI, its a single PCIe board
and still $200+ o_O
On newegg

The P4 Fatality was simply one of their high end P4 boards with a couple extra options and a ★■◆● load of LED lights on it, so I never bothered to look at the Athlon Fatality board. Probably the same situation. Mostly just a lot of bling at an increased cost.

Matrix wrote:I would go with a 3200 or 3500 s939 90nm.
The 90nm gives you an advantage equal to about 200MHz at equal clock speeds when comparing a 90nm or a 130nm Chips.

The 90nms are usualy faster then the 130nms, but no where near a 200MHz diffrence. Athlon models increase by 200MHz, and you definetly won't see a 90nm 3200+ coming anywhere near a 130nm 3500+. Check out the comparison between the 90nms and the 130nms at Xbitlabs.

That being said, the 90nms are a bit faster and definetly run cooler then the 130nms. So yeah, grab a 90nm if at all possible.

By the way, what cooler are you planning on using? The boxed cooler is OK, but pretty much everyone grabs a qaulity after-market cooler, especially if they OC. The current king of Athlon aircooling is the Thermalright XP-120, with the Zalman 7700cu right up with it.

ya I've herd a few call the Fatal1ty line of boards either childish or too blingy
with real no added performance

Matrix wrote: I second the PSU krom recommend, both me and him run the same one =)
Though for a system that might some day be running dual 6800GTâ??s in SLI I would recommend something with a little more brass on the 12v. Also if you went with this PSU and the DFI NF4 SLI-DR board you will need a 20pin to 24pin ATX converter that it does not come with. Itâ??s a standard 20pin ATX PSU and the DFI MB has a 24pin ATX power plug.

The Forton Blue Storm 500w is a better solution for your setup though I think. It has dual 12v rails with a total of 30A vs the 18A of the Forton 530w, perfect for an SLI setup. And it also comes with the 20 to 24pin ATX connector, even though a lot of people use this converter I should tell you that some people still recommended to get a PSU that has a native 24pin connector.

My budget for this pc is getting tighter and tighter
I agree that a better PCU is needed. I'll go with the Blue Storm 500. It's only a few dollars more than the $60 I was planning on spending.

I want to have a standard PSU that I wont have issues with, and that I can use right out of the box (I dont want to not have a needed adapter).


The corsair memory that I listed earlier seems good, especially at the price ($189). A few more $ for the kingston ($205) isnt much more...I just dont know where to stop at this point

The Motherboard seems to be the last question.
I dont think I'd use SLI. By the time I need an upgrade, the cost of another video card, would almost be the cost of a new mb and chip.
the 'option' of an SLI solution down the road is nice though....would the blue storm 500 work with 2 video cards (provided I buy the necessary adapter mentioned)?

or would a cheaper mb ($120 or so was what I was originally looking to spend...tho I'm very uneducated on these things to be sure) without SLI be a better solution?
I'll for sure go with PCI-e so I can drop my 6800GT into a newer board down the road.

Even if you never use SLI, that DFI lanparty SLI board would be a very good board for your uses, and it is sure to support any next gen video card for the next couple years.

OK, here's what I have now...some of the prices may vary, but the items should stay the same.
I'm right under the wire for my budget, with no cash left for shipping and tax.
I still need a CPU cooler, since the 3500 90nm is OEM and doesnt have one...suggestions?


$89 PSU Fortron Blue Storm 500W
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 934&depa=1

$225 MB DFI "LANPARTY nF4 SLI-DR" NVIDIA nForce4 SLI Chipset
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 151&depa=1

$275 CPU AMD Socket 939 Athlon 64 3500 90nm
http://www.newegg.com/app/SearchProduct ... =Go&DEPA=0

$394 6800GT PCI-e video card

$67 SB Audigy 2ZS audio card
http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDe ... ode=290223

$189 Corsair XMS Extreme Memory Speed Series, (Twin Pack) 184 Pin 1GB(512MBx2) DDR PC-3200 -
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde ... 450&DEPA=1

$99 Thermaltake VA3000 Dream Tower Black VA3000BWA ATX Case with Transparent X type side panel window
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde ... 132&DEPA=0

$40 case mods (a couple of fans and cathodes)


$57 Sony Internal 16X DVD+/-RW / Double Layer Drive Black,
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductde ... 239&DEPA=1

$24 SONY Black 52x32x52 Internal IDE CD-RW Drive
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 823&depa=1

$20 Media Reader Mitsumi 7 in 1 Card Reader Internal USB 2.0 FA404A,FA404M.Black Floppy Disk Drive

I have a HD that I'll be putting in there, and my existing monitor is a Sony E540 21" (which rocks!)


I dont see how I can cut the cost down on this system for shipping and tax, except for the sound card, and maybe combining the dvd r/w and the cd- r/w drives....do they make one drive that can burn both cds and dvds?

Am I missing anything to make this system work, besides the cooler? adapters or anything?

Going off the audio benchmarks on anandtech of that motherboard ( http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2358&p=19 ), I say save yourself the $67 by skipping that creative audio card, also since I have developed a deep loathing of Creativeâ??s "drivers" I say stay away from them.

Also, I have not heard that much on the Sony 16x DVD burner, but I have heard a good bit on the NEC3520A, and seen it in action personally, the price difference between the two is about $3 if you take the 3520A with software. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 038&depa=0 Without software, just bare OEM the 3520A is $1 less. And for the cd writer, you donâ??t really need one, the DVD burner can also burn CDs, I have a lite-on 52x CDRW in addition to my DVD burner, but I hardly ever use it.

Mr. Perfect wrote:

Matrix wrote:I would go with a 3200 or 3500 s939 90nm.
The 90nm gives you an advantage equal to about 200MHz at equal clock speeds when comparing a 90nm or a 130nm Chips.

The 90nms are usualy faster then the 130nms, but no where near a 200MHz diffrence. Athlon models increase by 200MHz, and you definetly won't see a 90nm 3200+ coming anywhere near a 130nm 3500+. Check out the comparison between the 90nms and the 130nms at Xbitlabs.

Notice I said at equal clock speeds, not equal models

In those benchmarks they seem to be comparing s754 Newcastleâ??s to s939 Winchesters
(I didnâ??t read the entire thing)

A s754 Newcastle 130nm 3000 is 2.0GHz
A s939 Winchester 90nm 3000 is 1.8GHz

A s754 Newcastle 130nm 3200 is 2.2GHz
A s939 Winchester 90nm 3200 is 2.0GHz

And yet the benchmark numbers are considerably close with the same model numbers, but clocked 200MHz lowerâ?¦

The advantage could of also had something to do with the socket change though, because the 3500s they used were both s939 (Newcastle vs Winchester) and both clocked at 2.2GHzâ?¦. And both of these had extremely similar results.

Anyway I made this claim based of information a bunch of people compiled in a thread over on the OCforums. So if its wrong, my bad, go take it up with them
And they were comparing data from Anandtech, and as you know numbers from 1 review site will not match another.

ReadyMan wrote: I want to have a standard PSU that I wont have issues with, and that I can use right out of the box (I dont want to not have a needed adapter).

When using it with the DFI NF4 board you will need to use the 20 to 24pin adapter that is included with the PSU, plus 1 PCIe power adapter for each video card. (most video cards come with the adapter though)

ReadyMan wrote:
The corsair memory that I listed earlier seems good, especially at the price ($189). A few more $ for the kingston ($205) isnt much more...I just dont know where to stop at this point

I think the Kingston for $205 is well worth it over the corsair, but anything above is negligible unless your doing some extreme overclocking. IMO anyway.

ReadyMan wrote: The Motherboard seems to be the last question.
I dont think I'd use SLI. By the time I need an upgrade, the cost of another video card, would almost be the cost of a new mb and chip.
the 'option' of an SLI solution down the road is nice though....would the blue storm 500 work with 2 video cards (provided I buy the necessary adapter mentioned)?

If you go SLI or not, even with 1 PCIe video card you will need the power adapter, you will just need a 2nd one for the 2nd video card. Most video cards come with the adapter though.

ReadyMan wrote: I still need a CPU cooler, since the 3500 90nm is OEM and doesnt have one...suggestions?

Any decent aftermarket heatsink will cost you about $30-$60 plus $10-$15 for a fan.
And the retail version of the 3500 is $335 for some reason

I say you go with a 3200 retail for $190, many people overclock on the stock heatsink using the Winchester chips and reach 2.5GHz. And you said you only wanted a mild overclock.
IMO the 3200 has a lot better price per performance value, the 3500 starts to get into the â??rich boy classâ?

It's the socket change that allows the 939s to be clocked 200MHz slower. Socket 754 has single channel memory, while Socket 939 has dual channel memory. I thought you where saying a 90nm 939 chip could match a 130nm 939 chip 200MHz faster or something bizare like that.

Once again, as far as air coolers go look into the Zalman 7000 or 7700 series, as well as the Thermalright XP-120 or XP-90. The Zalmans include a fan, but the Thermalrights don't

[quote="Matrix"]Any decent aftermarket heatsink will cost you about $30-$60 plus $10-$15 for a fan.
And the retail version of the 3500 is $335 for some reason

I say you go with a 3200 retail for $190, many people overclock on the stock heatsink using the Winchester chips and reach 2.5GHz. And you said you only wanted a mild overclock.
IMO the 3200 has a lot better price per performance value, the 3500 starts to get into the â??rich boy classâ?

I wanna hear how you like it too after all the surgery is done !

ReadyMan wrote:(or is it that the newcastle is the 130nm, and the winchester is the 90nm?)

Correct.

Afer a couple of hours searching, it appears that the 3500 winchester 90nm chip is in high demand...and therefore costs more.

So I guess it comes down to:
is the 130nm 3500 ($282)worth the $92 price difference of the 90nm 3200 ($190)?

does the 90nm really make up THAT much of a difference?

It is highly likely the 3200 will overclock faster then the 3500 speed, that is the #1 reason to go with the 3200 .90, and saving $90 is a big deal considering how much the rest of the system will set you back. You can always upgrade the CPU later to a much faster one when they are available and the prices come down.

Is there a limit on how fast of a chip I can put with this mb? Is it limited by chip type or ??

Right now the fastest chip supported by the boards you are thinking about getting would be the AMD64 FX-55.
Also supports all of the current 939pin chips.

But for future upgrades, some stuff has to match for a newer CPU to work in your motherboard.
-The CPU has to be same socket as your Motherboard
-The CPU's stock voltage / FSB / Multiplier have to be within the rang of the motherboards settings
-And as long as the motherboard manufacture has updated the bios to recognize the newer CPU core

what is the 'clawhammer' core? how is it different from the winchester and newcastle?

For the lower end chips 3000/3200 its the older core, was used before the Newcastle and Winchesters came out.

Right now the only lower end chips that use it are the DTR/Notebook chips. In socket 754 only.

And the highend chips still use it. In both s754 and s939.

You want the Winchester =)

Matrix wrote:You want the Winchester =)

x2

That motherboard supports all current 939 pin CPUs, so any Winchester 939 will do, the 3200 just has the most value right now.

I'm at the ordering parts stage, and the guy who's putting my system together mentioned that if I SLI in the future, I'll want more power for the PSU.
he mentioned this antec PSU that he can get for $90 ($1 more than the Fortron Blue 500W that I was planning on getting).
Antec TRUEPOWER550, Power Supply, 550W, ATX, Two Double Ball-Bearing Fans

Matrix had suggested that the OCZ 520W would be good for SLI, but it's $30 more
will the Fortron work with SLI, or should I go with this Antec?

and he had one other suggestion:
this MB from DFI
http://techreport.pricegrabber.com/sear ... escription

but it's different from the one I've got listed above, right? I read the specs and didnt see anything about SLI....

thanks!
-RM

Honestly, I wouldn't use any of those PSUs in a SLI rig, I would pick a higher wattage OCZ unit, the price is brutal but the quality is as good as it gets. I say stick with the 500w you have now and only get a larger PSU if and when you actually do get a second video card and SLI it.

Also, you are correct, the motherboard he suggested does NOT support SLI.

Iâ??ve seen quite a few people running high end SLI systems on the forton 500w, that things a beast.
Though it's not a native 24pin PSU, and some people say that can cause problems, I've never seen anyone actually with the problem though...

Personally I would go with the 520w OCZ mostly because its 24pin ATX plug and native PCIe power plugs.

I think both are plenty for a dual 6800GT rig

What ever you decide on, stay away from Antec PSU's if your using an AMD 90nm CPU, there seems to be some instability issue that A LOT of people are getting. I lurb Antec, they are my 2nd fav PSU company but there seems to be some issue here.

I seriously doubt I'll be running SLI...unless games are programmed to really target the SLI crowd.

But thanks for the input.
I'll stick with the Fortron 500W.

Matrix/Krom: if you were to go with a mb other than the DFI nF4 SLI-DR, what would it be? (assuming you were or weren't concerned with SLI)
the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI/non SLI?

ReadyMan wrote:the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI/non SLI?

Its a great motherboard that has recieved alot of good reviews.

http://anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2358&p=21

ReadyMan wrote: Matrix/Krom: if you were to go with a mb other than the DFI nF4 SLI-DR, what would it be? (assuming you were or weren't concerned with SLI)
the MSI K8N Neo4 Platinum SLI/non SLI?

Those would be my top 2 choices, with SLI
I'd lean towards the DFI though

I'm thinking of going with better RAM now along with the 3200 90nm chip...so when I upgrade to a faster processor down the road (3800 or better), I'll have the ram to help me OC (thus getting more bang for my buck now AND in the future).
Matrix posted this Corsair ram for $243
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDe ... 522&depa=1

I can save a few $ going with the MSI mb, and put it towards the RAM....though I just sold my Kegerator so I have a few extra dollars to put toward my rig.

I dont know much about OC'ing, as my only experience is with a p3 800 on an Asus cusl2 board, where all I had to do was up the multiplyer in the bios startup.
I feel a bit over my head with the switch to amd, despite everything I've read and learned in the last few weeks.

What can I expect out of the 3200 as far as OC'ing goes, with the stock cooler and the ram listed above? (I read some comments about OC'ing to higher speeds like 2.4ghz, 2.5ghz, 2.6ghz, and even one at 2.8ghz, but I dont know how that equates to other chips---is 2.6 like a 3800 chip or??)

I'm big-time n00b here, but I'm thinking I should more than 'mildly OC', and push this system...but I dont know how, or if some of my component choices are right for more serious OC'ing.
(Without messing with a bunch of settings, is there an easy OC'ing solution--an easier mb or bios setup-- for less than tech savvy noobs like me?)