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Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 7:52 am**

coz Psygnosis Lander is where it's at. booya!

i was just reading a walkthrough for the Game LANDER
(game download here, ask if you're having troubles getting it runnning). and noticed the authors comparison, he compares it to descent, and basically says that descent is too easy.

check it out

(mentions of descent bolded&underlined):

<snip>...

A FLYING 'THIEF' GAME...

This game revolves around realistically controlling a lander craft in space
environments that use unforgiving physics. Unlike other games (*cough* Descent
*cough*), the computer doesn't help you auto-pilot or anything. The control is
complex and completely up to you to maintain. This will quickly piss off
players of fast-paced, 'frag-boy' games, as they'll slam around and blow up
before they know it. The end result is them blaming the game for their sloppy
piloting instead of accepting the fact that other games are simply more
forgiving (and less realistic) when it comes to controlling your 'character' due
to their cushioned game physics.
With that in mind, I can see why this game didn't do too well with FPS
crowds since the control requires a lot more effort, patience and finesse to
learn when compared to other FPS games (*cough* Quake *cough* Descent *cough*).
Unlike those games, the goal here isn't fast-paced killing sprees; it's careful
navigation through cramped tunnels and tactful engagement of enemies as you try
to keep your lander's momentum from plowing you into something you'd probably
regret (namely a wall or the ground).
So, for starters, don't treat your craft like an indestructible
juggernaut, slamming it around the environment trying to get the most frags as
fast as possible. Not only will that get you killed fast, but that's not even
the objective of the missions or the point of the game as whole. Instead, think
of your lander as a surgical instrument, with you being the highly skilled
surgeon performing tactical insertions. This mind set will prepare you for
Lander and you'll get far more enjoyment out of it as such. Just like the
'Thief' FPS games introduced less confrontation and more thinking/patience when
compared to the run-n-gun mentality of 'Quake' FPS games, this game is the same
way. If 'Descent' is the 'Quake' equivalent of flying games, then 'Lander' is
the 'Thief' equivalent of this genre. And since I'm a fan of the 'Thief'
series, I can think of no higher compliment then that.

PILOTING

Piloting is key to this game. No matter how bad-ass your lander or load-out is,
it isn't worth squat without solid flying. You don't have to be stunt pilot
material, you just have to learn to keep your craft steady and under control.
After you learn that, then you can add some speed and attempt to keep it steady
and under control.
Of the two things that can kill you, one being enemy fire and the other
being the scenery, slamming into the scenery is probably the bigger threat to a
beginner pilot. And this is mainly due to 1) holding down the thrusters instead
of tapping them, 2) going too fast too soon, 3) over-compensating the thruster
tilt during maneuvers. The end result is usually loss of control and a lot of
slams into the scenery. Hopefully these tips will help.

* IT'S ALL PHYSICS - This game uses a realistic physics model in that you can
gain momentum, drift, fall, etc. Unlike games like Descent, where the computer
subtly helps pilot your craft by drifting it to swift stops, auto-leveling it
when you let go of the controls, or hovering it in place while you think what to
do, in Lander, the controls are all you, so stay on them. If you burn the
thruster to go forward, you're going to have to tilt back and burn an equal
amount in order to stop. Equal and opposite actions counter-balance each other.
Beginners should focus on subtle changes in craft direction and momentum rather
then radical changes, which easily leads to over-compensation and loss of
control. Sure, some computer assistance in piloting would have been helpful in
the start, but when you get good at piloting you'll actually enjoy the realism,
the freedom, and the genuine sense of accomplishment when you pull off some
spectacular stuff (which some missions call for).

<snip>...

.
i totally agree, you guys might think you're pretty hot playing descent, but you are pushovers. you'd all suck at Psygnosis Lander, that game requires real skill.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 7:57 am**

......... i dont think this is the place to say something like that roid

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 8:08 am**

Sounds like that guy's got some self-esteem issues and tries to resolve them by bashing other games in a completely different segment. Maybe he's just annoyed that he missed the time when those sort of games were huge.

(That being like 10-15 years ago.)

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 8:26 am**

no it's just a walkthrough for the game. at the start of it he has this big section with piloting tips, which this is from. (most of it is a level by level walkthrough). it's a hard game to describe, i'd use descent as a parallel when describing it too - in a similar manner he does.
descent is to quake, what lander is to descent.
(i'll have to make a website dedicated to it one day)

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 8:57 am**

Okay, okay, change it to "elitist moron" then, hehe.

In any case, assuming I'm thinking of the right type of game (which I would have to be, unless lander-type games are different than they used to be), it's seriously a different game from Descent. Descent could be called an arcade-style aerial FPS, whereas lander-type games are closer to simulation-style games. And yes, very difficult to control accurately, but that's the point. There's more emphasis on technique and less on raw points.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 10:11 am**

comparisons with Descent are ridiculous.

It compares much better to a 3-d "lunar lander" game.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 10:54 am**

Dude, Tetris is so easy... you don't have to counter the momentum of the pieces. You move a piece over by one spot, and it doesn't keep moving -- the game conveniently makes it stop moving horizontally. Asteroids is way hard, though, because of realistic physics.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 11:23 am**

interesting note...

LOS ANGELES--(BUSINESS WIRE)--July 28, 1999--Today, Psygnosis completed another PC gaming technology milestone with the release of its first DVD computer game, Lander(TM).
Offering a new dimension of sound and vision to gamers, Lander, a space action/adventure game, sets a precedent for the future of interactive entertainment with advanced video and audio technology. At retail, Psygnosis will offer Lander on both DVD-ROM and PC CD-ROM on separate discs in one package.

``The market is craving DVD content and the response to Lander by consumers, the media and our technology partners has been phenomenal,'' commented Harry Vitelli, Vice President, Marketing for Psygnosis US. ``The highly realistic motion-picture video sequences, along with DolbyÂ® Digital 5.1 channel audio, make for a super realistic gameplay experience in the DVD version. At the same, we wanted to be sure that all space adventure game enthusiasts had equal opportunity to play the game, so we're offering both the DVD and PC versions of Lander in the same package.''

The DVD version of Lander delivers high-resolution MPEG 2 video sequences along with Dolby Digital 5.1 audio creating a true theatrical experience of both sight and sound. Dolby Digital 5.1 audio is featured throughout the game, both in the video sequences as well as mixed together with in-game sound effects. The PC version of the game is also a fully-featured game, offering both Dolby Surround sound and MPEG 1 video sequences (slightly shorter in length) on a single CD-ROM.

Lander is also optimized to allow gamers play the game's DVD movies and trailers on a DVD movie player or, if they want, they can just listen to the game's gorgeous sound track.

I'm still waiting for DVD games to take off....

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 11:26 am**

actually WarAdvocat descent and psygnosis lander are quite similar.

i just grabbed fraps, and made a short movie of me going around some big simple tunnels. it's an early level in the game, very simple. i may make it look easy though, i was just buming around not really paying attention. but i actualy died soon after i stopped recording, got the ★■◆● blasted outof me by those 2 beam laser turrets.

)

...(uploading)
ok here's my short movie.
(ironicly those are flares i'm dropping/bouncing around in the dark.)

looks pretty descent-like no?
similar... yet different in the coolest ways

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 11:30 am**

Lothar wrote:Dude, Tetris is so easy... you don't have to counter the momentum of the pieces. You move a piece over by one spot, and it doesn't keep moving -- the game conveniently makes it stop moving horizontally. Asteroids is way hard, though, because of realistic physics.

Agreed! Asteroids was hella fun back in the day though. Still is to some extent. Especially when the UFOs show up.

Buef: Damn straight! This multiple CD crap is getting old. Damn near everyone has a DVD-ROM or RW anyways, so why not release games in DVD format? If they don't have a drive, they can be easily had for dirt cheap. If they can afford to plop down $40 - $50 a game, they can afford to pay $20 - 30 for a drive.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 11:41 am**

[OT]Many games ARE available in DVD anymore. I bought Battle for Middle Earth on DVD rather than have 4 CDs to mess around with. Eventually DVDs will probably wholly replace CDs as the portable media of choice [/OT].

I'm downloading this game now at a whopping 4.5 kb/sec.

I'll see how it checks out tonight... providing it ever gets done.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 11:49 am**

I know that Myst IV: Revelation was one of the first games with a DVD-only release; what's interesting is that the original Myst did just about the same thing for the CD-ROM. As DVD drives become standard, I don't have any problem with having to worry about one DVD versus 4 or 5 CDs.

As for the article in question, that guy has some serious superiority issues. And I though I was elitist about the superiority of Descent.

As was said before, you can't really compare two completely different genres of games with different purposes. Also, anyone who tries to compare Descent to Quack should be shot.

The game looks cool, though; I'll have to give it a try.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 11:50 am**

you'll likely need to install it to c:\lander , then goto the compatability settings for lndrd3dr\lander.EXE and make it win98 compatability. (oh and remember to run that registry thing that comes with it).
and that should set you all up, ready to go.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 12:21 pm**

Roid:
That game is a totally different theory of arcade gameplay from descent. Descent is based on a zero-G system which does not require constant thrusting to keep aloft. You are comparing two totally different genres of flight simulation gameplay. I find it more realistic to be held aloft by a complex physical system, than thrusting all the time. That game looks to be totally fun, but you coming in here like that and advocating the degration of Descent for someone that probably hardly played it ever, and couldn't get good a it. Someone who plays that game would get his butt owned in Descent. Someone who plays Descent would probably transition better. There is tons of ability in Descent, the level of talent that you can reach is pretty much unbounded.

That game looks fun, but its no comparison with Descent because its totally different. If you want to come to dog descent, then go somewhere else. This forum is for Descent fans and those who are loyal to it.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 12:54 pm**

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 1:37 pm**

1Ace! .. are you new around here or just pulling our leg... ? We all love Descent, we all know it's the best game ever, ... and we all chant "Hare HAre 6DF 6DF..!" when ever we are in need of a Descent moral-booster...

I remember Mobius pointing this Lander game out a while back.

Roid; I couldn't see the video, ... tell us what weapons the lander is equipped with ..?

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 2:49 pm**

El Ka Bong wrote:... and we all chant "Hare HAre 6DF 6DF..!"

Why are you chanting for bunnies?

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 5:06 pm**

I've been playing Descent for years, and browsing these forums for a year or so. I've only just registered this account. I generally don't appreciate Roids posts, and really think that his topic is really a dumb comparison.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 5:16 pm**

It's not his comparison, he posted someone elses. You need to read it more carefully before getting all outraged.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 7:36 pm**

LOL....

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 7:56 pm**

I've tried it... It's addicting, in a molar-grinding, annoying sort of way. If you don't mind a 6-hour download from HOTU's horribly annoying download protections, slamming into walls, and getting one-shot-killed by almost-instant-hit weapons, it's fun. However, descent it is NOT. The propulsion systems of the two craft are radically different; there is no comparison. In this, you're in a craft whose main method of propulsion is to tilt forward (think helecopter) to fly forward, sidewiays to fly sideways, etc. Not really very competitive as far as combat goes--the weapons "slot" at an opponent; you just sort of aim your ship in the direction of the target and chug away.

To put things in perspective, in the first flyable mission, there are 2 turrets. In descent there are at least 20 robots. This is like comparing Falcon 2.0 to descent--the emphasis is on learning how the heck you're supposed to control the craft, rather than on killing the enemy.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 9:07 pm**

Some guy named "Ray" made a post in the Russian Descent Outpost Forum (in Russian) back in March extolling the virtues of Lander:

Link

That discussion was much like the one in this forum. MidiV was less than impressed with the game.

"Ray" also gave a link to a Russian-language Lander fan site:

http://www.lander-forever.narod.ru/

It has a link back to 3dgamers where you can get an 11MB demo if you don't want to endure the HOTU agony:

http://www.3dgamers.com/dlselect/games/ ... r.exe.html

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 9:21 pm**

El Ka Bong wrote:Roid; I couldn't see the video, ... tell us what weapons the lander is equipped with ..?

the movie is an XVID, so if you don't have the XVID codec you'll need it.

well initially the lander you start with (the "hopper" it's my favourite really) comes equipt with a pulse laser thing, that's teh green ★■◆● you see me shooting.

this is like the 3rd level or something (i just flew through the first few levels really fast), so i've got a bit of money from those missions and bought myself a flare launcher (those white things that bounce around).

there are tons of weapons to buy, and you get missiles on the other more sophisticated landers.

shooting things is not really what this game is about. but you can do that if you want to, you'll probabaly waste a lot of time. it's more fun to race around as fast as you can, getting good at piloting.

everyone can see that movie i posted right?

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 9:29 pm**

Dude, Psygnosis made a game named "rollcage" that is awesome- it's a racing game, the first person mode is enough to make most people sick in a matter of minutes... I think it's awesome.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 9:33 pm**

Yeah, I can see it, but I dunno...

It looks kinda boring.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 9:57 pm**

roid wrote:.
i totally agree, you guys might think you're pretty hot playing descent, but you are pushovers. you'd all suck at Psygnosis Lander, that game requires real skill.

I don't know about you but I played Lunar Lander on a VAX VMS system back in the '80 -- that's requiring some real skillz

I'm sure the guy who wrote that will suck vs almost any regular D3 pilot online since he flies/flew w/ auto leveling on

As a sidenote, D3 was never intended for this kind of realism last time I checked -- different ball game, bad comparison IMHO.

Posted: **Tue May 03, 2005 10:20 pm**

I have Lander - full version. It rocks. I need to get it working in XP though. Currently it runs on a crappy Win98 box.

Yes, the craft require far more skill to pilot than Descent, but saying that, once you understand the phyics and the controls (which are simple) then it's onyl a matter of time before you master them. I can do full barrel rolls, and complete somersaults in a Lander.

It might LOOK a bit like Descent, but the comparison ends there - it's a totally different game - and one well worth trying out!

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 1:55 am**

There's no download agony from HOTU if you use the provided BitTorrent link.

I'm willing to seed if anyone else wants it.

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 6:33 am**

Hey, top, please do seed, I'ma grab it when I get home.

I played it, and I still think of it as a melange of Descent & Lunar Lander.

Essentially, in this game, you fly an early prototype pyro without all the fly-by-wire features of a mature technology. All thrust vectors must be manually controlled.

Very cool, I lost interest in it when all I had was the demo, I'll have to revisit it now.

Gren: I played my lunar lander on a Commie PET way back in '81 or '82. You must have had access to much nicer equipment than I did.

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 6:38 am**

Yes TG please do

How's the JS support in this game?

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 7:17 am**

Havent tried it; if no one gets to it within about 10 hours I'll try it out.

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 4:58 pm**

It's... just a question of focus.

Descent is more about tactical combat. It takes away most of the piloting difficulty so you can think about more advanced stuff.

Lander... you'll still have to use more of your brain controlling the ship first, before you think about doing anything special.

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 5:49 pm**

Having learned to pilot fairly well with a joystick now, I can say that it supports joysticks fairly well--however, it crashes to desktop when I try to do such simple things as reassign the rotational thrust to the 3 and 4 buttons on my Evo. Odd...

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 9:12 pm**

It will not play in winXP. The screen just goes black. Anyone else have this problem?

Posted: **Wed May 04, 2005 11:46 pm**

Stryker it's almost an entirely different control method when you play it with a joystick. because with a joystick it's absolute control rather than relative. with the mouse it's quite different. personally i prefer the mouse, but both methods of control are fun in their own ways.

Xamindar wrote:It will not play in winXP. The screen just goes black. Anyone else have this problem?

did you follow the instructions?
you have to set it's EXE file ( lndrd3dr\lander.EXE ) to win98 compatability.
(if you are talking about the full game, try also installing it to c:\lander and running the included registry file)

PS: MOBIUS, CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGE

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 8:14 am**

This game rocks, I'm actually getting pretty good at it. I was messing around in the MP maps to get good at flying landers, and I can do some pretty spectacular maneuvers already.

Not stunt quality, but enough to squirt around a corner in an emergency at high speeds.
Anyone ever try a leap frog maneuver? land the craft, level everything out, lean the craft forward(it won't actually go forward, just get ready to) and boost into the air amd lean back and land it in one smooth movement. It's good practice for high-speed maneuvering without worrying about blowing yourself to bits every 8 seconds.

Had a weird sound bug for a while though, I had sounds for the one mission then they stopped for the next, so I took a look in the options and it defaulted the buffers to zero, so no sounds.
Just a heads up

Posted: **Thu May 05, 2005 10:26 am**

Mobius wrote:I can do full barrel rolls, and complete somersaults in a Lander.

No you can't, this game doesn't allow that unless you ram something or get shot. So you must be talking about getting shot at and getting hit.

Posted: **Sat May 07, 2005 10:16 pm**

It's not his comparison, he posted someone elses. You need to read it more carefully before getting all outraged.

I'm not outraged at all, I just find it dumb for him or anyone else to compare the two games as if they were even remotely similar. Roid obviously has some advocacy for what this guy said about descent because of this topic name for one, and some of his other comments.

I agree that it looks like it would be tons of fun, but making a comparision like that is dumb, and a descenter can whip butt on someone who plays that game. The same may go for descenters verse people on that game. I would say from what I have seen that there is a lot more talent to becoming an ace in descent over becoming one in that game.

Posted: **Sat May 07, 2005 10:59 pm**

haha. man it took me MINUTES to get used to piloting in descent.

but it took me DAYS or even WEEKS to get good at lander. but it sure was worth it, being able to properly fly that thing around is really fun.

i remember being at a friends house taking turns playing the 10meg lander demo. laughing our asses off because we couldn't control the lander and kept running into absolutely everything.
"weeee aaaaaAAAAAH!!!" *clang!*

the secret is to start off learning slow by just pulsing your engines

. "this ain't like dusting crops boy"

although i am beyond the pulsing engines stage of piloting; i'm actually a little rusty, coz i hadn't played for 6 months or so. i could be better

.

Posted: **Sun May 08, 2005 7:45 pm**

You can't ever stop getting better at descent though, and if it only took you a few days, you had to be a pretty sorry pilot. As everyone here should know, learning descent takes more than that.

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Descent is for pussys :P

Descent is for pussys :P

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