DescentBB

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 2:48 pm**

Mrs. Dedman and I are seriously looking into sending our daughter to private school. I am a product of the California school system of the mid 80's. I only had basic algebra under my belt when I graduated. Not good. Thank goodness for junior college.

I am not sure about the academics performace of public schools, but the common sense level appears to be dropping rapidly. At least it is here in Georgia.

Below is an excerpt from Todayâ??s Neal Boortz. Are you getting things like this where you live? Is stupidity on the rise or only the reporting of it? What are your views?

NOT A GOOD WEEK FOR GOVERNMENT SCHOOLS ....

... but then, what week IS a good week for turning your child over to the government to be educated?

Dacula High School, Gwinnett County, Georgia

You heard about this last week on the show, and you saw Larry Nease on CNN this morning. "Doc" Nease is a science teacher at Dacula High School. For the past 10 years or more Doc has had a policy in his classrooms that if you fall asleep or disrupt the class you will get a zero for your class work for that day, or your grade will be cut drastically. Little Wesley, the football player, fell asleep in class. In fact, after an assignment was handed out Wesley the Football Player just put his head down on his desk and went to sleep. He did his assignment that night and handed it in the next day, as was allowed. But he got his zero. Wesley the Football Player's Daddy came to school to complain. Did the principal stand by the teacher? Nope. Did the Gwinnett County School Board stand by the teacher? Nope. Doc Nease was fired. Twenty-three years teaching, and he was fired because he fulfilled a promise he made to his class -- in writing -- that if you fall asleep in class you can get a zero for that day's work. The dictate from the teacher was included in a class syllabus that all students had to sign. I'm told that our football player's parents also signed the syllabus. No matter. You just don't screw with high school football players.

Spencer High School, Columbus, Georgia

You've heard about this one too. Spencer High School. Columbus, Georgia is a heavy-military area, home to Ft. Benning. Kevin's mother is an Army Sergeant. She's in Iraq. Kevin is in Spencer High School. Kevin's mom calls him on his cell phone ... from Iraq. It's lunch break at the high school, so Kevin goes outside to take the call. One of our wonderful government teachers sees him and demands he hang up. He explains that his mom has called from Iraq. This matters none to the teacher. She demands he hang up and tries to grab the phone. In the tussle the call is disconnected. The teacher starts marching Kevin to the principal's office. His mother calls back. They refuse to allow him to take the call. He gets belligerent. Who the hell wouldn't? He knows his mom is in dangerous territory. She could die that afternoon in an insurgent attack. He wants to talk to her ... they won't allow him to answer the phone. End result? He gets suspended for 10 days. That suspension has now been reduced to three days ... all due to public outrage.

Bow High School, Bow, New Hampshire

Isabel Gottlieb is a great student. She plays in the school band. She is taking advanced placement classes. Things like calculus and biology. She isn't going to be allowed to graduate with her class. Why? Because she didn't take a required PE class. Physical Education. She holds varsity letters in three sports at Bow High School, but she didn't take this particular PE class. She was told that in order to graduate she would have to drop one of her advanced placement classes and replace it with the PE class. She said no. Now she isn't going to get her diploma. There is no PE class offered during summer school, so that means she might not be able to go to college next Fall. Trinity College in Hartford, CT comes to the rescue. She will take her GED test over the summer and Trinity has accepted her for the Fall semester.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 3:01 pm**

Another option, if you have the time, is homeschooling. Your kid learns whatever you want him (or her) to learn, and you're allowed to set the rules--no government interference.

On the other hand, it sometimes opens you to social services claiming you're "abusing" your poor child by taking them away from the school system and actually making them work and get good grades. It also takes a bit of time, and you still have to support the public school system with probably 60% of your state taxes, along with buying your own curriculum materials, which should usually run around $500-$1000, depending on what level of curriculum you want, which one you choose, and how many materials it has.

I don't know your situation, but if either you or your wife has graduated from high school (college is preferable, and in some states required, but in many a high school degree is all that's required) and doesn't hold a full-time job, or can manage to cut back to part-time, homeschooling would probably be a viable option for you.

However, I would highly recommend private school as compared to a public high school--just be careful which one you pick, as some are as bad if not worse than public schools.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 3:09 pm**

Nearly everyone I've heard talk about alternate schooling has said to homeschool. Private schools are better than public, but not by a whole lot.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 3:09 pm**

Althougth I think we could handle the academics of home schholing, we both have undergrad degrees in engineering and I am finishing up my grad degree in business, it isn't an option that either of us want to pursue. There are many reasons for this. Some are valid and some are not. However, it all boils down to this: at this time we are not willing to make the lifestyle choices necessary to be able to live on only one income.

So for the time being, it's either public or private school. We have a couple of years to work it out since she is only two.

I am not looking for advice as much as I just wanted to debate the merrits of the different options. Plus I was hoping to hear some really good horror stories along the way

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 3:39 pm**

It really depends. My public school was quite excellent and rivaled the private schools. Nothing beats homeschooling however.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 3:53 pm**

One of the big costs of home schooling is in most cases you have to be able to live and raise children on a single income. I hope you can find a school that you will be confident sending your child to. If you can't find a school, think about how you could make home schooling possible, start thinking and working on a plan now just in case and it shouldn't be that hard to impliment if needed. Don't wait to make your decision when you are already out of time.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 4:02 pm**

I had some pretty good instruction in both public and private schools. I think you just need to be proactive about finding out about the schools in your area, public or private; see what their policies and track records are. Keep in mind that there are morons in every probability distribution - how many you have to deal with is proportional to the shape of the distribution.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 7:44 pm**

I was a govnâ??t cheese piece of white trash but went to a really good public school. I think it may have saved my life in many respects. The access to good pianos and other music equipment helped me out a ton. Having updated books and well paid (they are all underpaid imho) instructors didnâ??t hurt either.

If your public school system is really terrible in your area I would definitely ship little one of to a private institution. If your district is good I would say the mix with a lot of different people might help her to become more self reliant and sociable human.

Home schooling seems just weird to me, but I have slowly been changing my opinion of it. I guess I can only go by my experience of home-schooled people, and the ones I knew were freaking weird. I guess that would be the fault of the parent more than anything.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 8:50 pm**

My first two years of high school were at public school, second two were at private school. I had a much better experience at the private school and a better education.

As someone mentioned (I think), it depends on the public schools in your area. There are some excellent public schools up here (most are not), and some elitist-snob private schools too (unfortunately, very common in New England . . . I was fortunate to go to a non-snobby prep school).

Again, it depends on schools in your area, but my recommendation is private school, but not a boarding school. I was a day student (lived at home) at private school, but many students there were boarding students. This is mostly a gut feeling, but I believe those kids could have used more parental involvment in their lives.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 9:04 pm**

TheCops wrote:I guess I can only go by my experience of home-schooled people, and the ones I knew were freaking weird. I guess that would be the fault of the parent more than anything.

You arent the only one who thinks that, some home schoolers are that way, but its evenly split the same way in public school, everywhere you go you will find wierdos, its just homeschooling wierdos are more visible.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 11:07 pm**

I think most public schools are just fine, although I intend to send my kid to private school because of the neighbor hood I live in. It is very rough, we just had a cop shot here in St. Paul about 2 blocks from where I live and every fith house is selling drugs. Maybe I should move to a better area.

Posted: **Mon May 09, 2005 11:19 pm**

Do whenever your daughter wants to do. In my experience, as having gone to (probably) one of the worst public schools in the nation, I still got a damn good education, because I wanted one. I've been to both to a private school and public school, and I HATED private school.

I felt constrained in private school, everyone there was very similar in attitude, appearance, etc. At public school, the school was big enough so that even though many people WERE similar, I could find different groups of people to socialize with.

I also felt that public school gave me an experience that neither homeschooling nor private schooling could have given me. I was able to meet a diverse population at public school that rivals and even trumps most universities. My public school education was not so much academic as social.

Really, it's all about what your daughter likes and what you think is best for her.

p.s. to cuda: just because you live in a "bad neighborhood" doesn't necessarily mean the local school is bad or a bad influence. Some crazy ★■◆● happened at my public high school, (one event comes to mind where the local police came to our highschool decked out in riot gear

), but I still have zero regrets about having gone. Hell, those "Dangerous" moments were awesome.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 7:09 am**

General consensus is that private school is typically "better" from first through sixth grade, then it pretty much evens out. I have gone to Catholic school my entire life (heading to Loyola College in August), but I would never say that the religious "education" I received helped me intellectually at all. Rather, it was the devotion of the teaching staff, who are paid significantly less than their public school counterparts, and their ability to actually deal with the situation rather than play politics that gave me a great opportunity.

Private school isn't a "magic bullet" by any means, but if the public schools in your area aren't stellar, it might be worth the extra cash to give your daughter a better chance at doing well for herself.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 11:31 am**

Private school for 5 years, public for 4, homeschool for 3 and I say private school is much better. Homeschool should be best, but I didn't learn a good work ethic from homeshool because I'd show up in PJ's do the work and be outside playing in less than an hour or so. My last 2 and a quarter years in private school were the best of my entire school career. I wasn't even the popular kid.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 12:44 pm**

Well, I was in a private Christian school from kindergarten through the 2nd grade. I moved to public school in the 3rd grade and stayed there trough high school. I can say that my private school experience was light years better than my public school experience in terms of academic instruction and quality as well as the over all environment.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 1:43 pm**

I went to Catholic elementary school for eight years and a Catholic high school for four years. While neither school had the shiny facilities of the local public schools (our area's school district is filthy rich...they just built a $90 million high school

), and while my high school didn't have as large a selection of courses or as many extracurricular activities as the public schools did, I still feel like I came out much better based on what I've heard of the actual teaching quality and learning environment in our local public schools. Just about every one of my teachers over the years was very dedicated and hardworking; they definitely weren't in it for the money, they were in it because they loved what they did. It's not about how nice your building looks, how expensive your athletic facilities are, or how many computer labs you have, it all comes down to the actual teachers themselves. If I had to start over and had the choice, I'd do things the exact same way.

By the way, all three of the stories in the first post are absolutley unbelievable. That second one is just disgusting; I'm surprised that the school's administration wasn't set upon by an angry mob. As for the third, that's pathetic; what use does PE class do for any student? I had to take it once a week or so in my sophmore year, and we spent a quarter learning square dancing. I sincerely hope these stories aren't typical of all school districts, or this country is screwed.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 6:01 pm**

The second story from the original post has been all over the news... there was such an outrage the school backed way off on the suspension.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 6:56 pm**

In one account I read (on CNN? . . . not really sure) the teacher's side of that story is a little different. The teacher claimed that the student didn't tell her he was talking to his mom in Iraq.

As with most things, the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. In any event, I wouldn't base your decision on a few "newsworthy" events.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 9:59 pm**

Say TopGun, that was a coed square dancing class, I take it?

Regarding Isabel Gottlieb-

When she learned that she was one credit shy of graduating with her class due to a physical education requirement, Gottlieb initially tried to appeal the decision, but quickly adapted.

"Over the last year or so, a high school diploma lost a lot of meaning for me," said Gottlieb.

A student of Bow High School since her junior year, Gottlieb, 18, was told three weeks into her senior year that she would be unable to graduate unless she took a BEST class.

BEST, which stands for Building Essential Skills for Tomorrow, is a combination of physical education and health education, and is a requirement to graduate.

"As far as I knew," said Gottlieb, "everything was all set until, like, three weeks into senior year."

After those three weeks, a series of transfers began between Gottlieb's old school in Seattle and Bow High School. The controversy arose because in Seattle, Gottlieb's varsity-level athletic participation was worth physical education credit, whereas in Bow it is not.

Sounds to me like Isabel also got jobbed by her guidance counselor, who ought to have made clear the BEST class requirement when she transferred in. Maybe this will be one of those borderline cases that helps the system become a bit more flexible.

As for Kevin, the school should fly him out to visit his mother in Iraq; perhaps better at some nearby base.

Posted: **Tue May 10, 2005 11:58 pm**

Yes, it was co-ed; both sexes thought that it was absolutely asinine, though.

Posted: **Wed May 11, 2005 2:02 am**

Hahnenkam wrote:I was a day student (lived at home) at private school, but many students there were boarding students. This is mostly a gut feeling, but I believe those kids could have used more parental involvment in their lives.

I don't know about that. I went to a residental magnet (public) school for my last two years of high school and if anything living at home would've only made things more difficult for me. It allowed you to focus your time as you saw fit, prepped us to live individually, and essentially was training us for the university life while we were still minors. Plus forcing people to live together did wonders for my social life (or at least made me much more socially adept) than living at home ever would.

Granted my idea of ideal "parental involvement" was "leave me alone I'm fine thanks" so your mileage may vary. Some of the kids at S&M just couldn't handle it. Dropped out due to playing games all day, lots of second-hand drug stories, and the like.

Posted: **Thu May 12, 2005 12:04 pm**

I guess there's been a flap recently about a study purported to show public schools are better than private. Here is some conservative reaction to that at NRO.

Left out of discussion like this is that the public/private school near you may still be better than the private/public school choice available, regardless of whether the average public school does (or does not do) better than the average private school.

DescentBB

Are private schools the answer?

Are private schools the answer?