DescentBB

Yesterday, at the park where I work, a man from the water company drove in. He began using an orange instrument which looked like those metal detectors I've seen people using. It had a box with a meter on top, only instead of a flat pickup plate at the bottom, it didn't have anything. My friend began talking with him and we found out he was looking for a metal cover that was buried. The instrument was beeping at different rates as he passed this "wand" over the ground but he became frustrated when he couldn't find it.

As we watched, he got another instrument that was similar (but yellow) and looked more like a cane without a box on top. It didn't do anything that I could see, and again he seemed frustrated. He went back to his truck and began calling someone.

When he came out, he had two copper rods in the form of an "L" with the part he was holding in some sort of tube. I think the tubes were acting like a bearing. He began walking very s l o w l y along the footpath holding them out like a pair of guns. I watched close as we followed him and what I saw next stunned me....I saw the rods move toward each other until they faced each other. At that spot, he sprayed some paint. He then went back to the truck and got the "metal detector" and came back to that spot.

It didn't beep, but I think he knew where he was going now, and as he walked a few feet, the instrument began a high pitch sound...he drew a round circle with paint, then the letters "W/E". My friend asked him more questions and he said they all have those rods. When he showed them to us, they looked professional, not like a cheap pair.

I'm a little shy talking to strangers, so I called my dad and told him what I saw. He laughed and said the guy was just joking and dismissed it as a prank the guy was pulling on us. I don't think so. He looked dead serious when he was doing it.
I looked it up on the web, but there are many pros and cons.

Later that day and today, my friends and I made some, from different materials, but can't get them to work

I understand the operation of the magnetic field in the metal detector, but not the rods. What is the process. (or were we conned).


Bettina

they're called divining rods. Some people think they're BS, but I've actually seen them work on more than one occasion. I was told by one guy that some people have the ability to use them and some dont.

I worked for the water department for a summer doing exactly that sort of work, but I never saw any piece of equipment like what you just described. Never seen two copper rods do that...

The yellow cane-like thing is probably one of these or something similar. The orange metal detector is standard.

One possibility is that the person he called was another part of his survey crew, and they had a transmitter of some sort on another part of the pipe they were trying to locate. Typically, the covers they're looking for just cover a valve on a pipe or conduit of some sort, and they often know where another one is closeby, so it's easy to send a signal down a pipe. Can you give a better description of how he held the copper rods, what direction they were facing (was the L facing up, down, sideways, etc.), and what the tool looked like in general?

I'm surprised you've never heard of Water Divining before.

"never heard of" and "never saw it work" are two very different things.

EDIT:

It seems, if you can get it to work reliably, you can get a million dollars from James Randi.

punisher wrote:they're called divining rods. Some people think they're BS, but I've actually seen them work on more than one occasion. I was told by one guy that some people have the ability to use them and some dont.

I've heard of these also, seems interesting to me.

Lothar wrote:I worked for the water department for a summer doing exactly that sort of work, but I never saw any piece of equipment like what you just described. Never seen two copper rods do that...

The yellow cane-like thing is probably one of these or something similar. The orange metal detector is standard.

One possibility is that the person he called was another part of his survey crew, and they had a transmitter of some sort on another part of the pipe they were trying to locate. Typically, the covers they're looking for just cover a valve on a pipe or conduit of some sort, and they often know where another one is closeby, so it's easy to send a signal down a pipe. Can you give a better description of how he held the copper rods, what direction they were facing (was the L facing up, down, sideways, etc.), and what the tool looked like in general?

First, I've heard of divining rods, but the ones I heard about were made of wood and shaped like a "Y". I always thought they were bogus. I'm not so sure now. The ones this man had were prefessional looking and he had them in a hard case. Rather than explain what they looked like, Click on this link then select "copper L rods"
http://www.get-intuit.com/pendulums_rod ... eters.html

His were a lot better looking than these, and had smaller ends on them. His were about 15" long.

And...that yellow thing is what he had Lothar....

Bettina

P.S. My friend won't give up and neither will I....not yet.

I've seen a guy use what appeared to be two pieces of 8 gauge copper, bent in an L to find an underground tank. before. He used the rods to denote the borders and painted where he thought they were. When we dug, his marks were spot on. I dont think the fit and finish or professional look of the rods have anything to do with it. I think it has to do with the individual using them.

My dad once got a surveyer to find water on a piece of property he bought. One of the tools he used (actually, now that I think of it, the ONLY tool he used) was two L-shaped coat hangers.

Anyways, when my dad told me about it I HAD to go and see the craziness. Who could miss an opportunity like this? So, we followed the guy around. The rods went together, apart, together, apart. Whoopty-doo. I reminded my dad how much he was paying for the guy. Then he looked at me and, seeing the skeptical expression on my face, invited me to try it out.

So I walked over, got a brief lesson, and took the coat hangers. I did exactly as he said and started walking. Past 20 feet, I was wondering what I was thinking when I noticed the coat hangars had gone together and were touching. Surprised that my skepticism was in the process of being dealt a right hook, I backed up. They went apart and returned to pointing straight foreword. I walked ahead and they went back together again, and about 10 feet on, they parted. Then he launched into a story about how he used it to find pipes during a war (I forgot which one), blah blah...

I didn't feel compelled enough to pursue it past that point, but I suppose I could nab a couple coat hangars and find the water pipes. I'm also not saying I'm not still skeptical, just that I had coat hangars and be it by magnetism, subconscious mind tricks, or divinity, they went together over a spot of ground.

I'd assume that there isn't any sort of scientific theory behind the working of those things....

(BTW Betinna, you're linking to dowsing rods, so it looks like that's what they where.... apparantly the man thought they where pretty effective.)

I might have to rig myself up with some and walk some fairways with them... I know where the water mains go on a certain gold course... so I could sorta test the system- I don't know that I would do it correctly, though.

I've posted here before on this insofar as I can dowse using the "Y" shaped stick of wood. Out of my family only my father and I could dowse. It has to be over 30 years ago that I tried it to find a spot to drop a well on my parents property up in northern Michigan. Holding a Black Cherry twig hard enough that as the end points to earth, the handles twist so that the bark peeled off and I had red marks where the wood gouged into my palms. My father and I went over the same spot a couple of times and it was only at a certain spot that the reaction happened. Still can't explain it but the twig seemed to come alive. Turns out we only had to go 20 feet down to hit water. Haven't tried dowsing since then.

Everything has energy. Even humans. I think its in the form of graviton waves. I wonder if the energy of humans interact with the metal rods and that interacts with the metal pipe somehow.....Like a magnetic field.

I'm gonna find out. We'll be making more rods tommorrow.

Bettina

Hi Bettina!

I miss your laser on my hide in the mines. . .

Rods may work if they are science based, not paranormal based. Maybe they had very strong magnets on the ends, although I kind of doubt it, as a good digital sensor probly would be more sensitive.

Dowsing is a fairly disproven idea. One of my favorite debunkers is James Randi. Do a search for 'dowsing' on his website: www.Randi.org
"One Million Dollars awaits the individual that can prove, in a controlled setting, that they have "super" powers."

Also, if you are interested in the paranormal, there is a FANTASTIC book you should get at the library:
"Why People Believe Weird Things" by Michael Shermer

Hope that helps. Keep questioning!

I've seen the 'L' shaped devining rods used quite often by water company execs and humble sheperds alike. That it works, i have no doubt. Why it works though is another story.

Ned wrote: I miss your laser on my hide in the mines. . .

Woah there

Ned wrote:Hi Bettina!

I miss your laser on my hide in the mines. . .

In the mean time, you better run from roid's mutant killer german sheppard!



That, and pack a can of RAID because the aerial mutant spiders will bee in your area soon!



[/spam]

woodchip wrote:I've posted here before on this insofar as I can dowse using the "Y" shaped stick of wood. Out of my family only my father and I could dowse. It has to be over 30 years ago that I tried it to find a spot to drop a well on my parents property up in northern Michigan. Holding a Black Cherry twig hard enough that as the end points to earth, the handles twist so that the bark peeled off and I had red marks where the wood gouged into my palms. My father and I went over the same spot a couple of times and it was only at a certain spot that the reaction happened. Still can't explain it but the twig seemed to come alive. Turns out we only had to go 20 feet down to hit water. Haven't tried dowsing since then.

yeah i remember you talking about how your dad and you could do that. that thread was around 3 years ago?

i've seen enough of it mentioned on tv to suspect that it's real. and from what woody and liquid fire have said i'm prettymuch convinced. very interesting. this thread's got me itching to try it out myself too.

oh and MD neither of those pics are mine.

this one however was

From Randi's site:

"an involuntary body movement evoked by an idea or thought process rather than by sensory stimulation." The dowser is unknowingly moving the device of choice, exerting a small shaking, tilt or pressure to it, enough to disturb its state of balance."

I dunnoo. When I tried it I was trying to counter the sticks downward action by squeezing and curling my hands towards me. I guess I may have to try and see if I still have the ability. Unlike the dowsers who claim some ability to find certain elements, I don't. I'd just like to understand the process.

This might be the first contraption you saw:

http://www.pollardwater.com/emarket/pag ... tracer.asp

Ned.... Haven't seen you lately in the mines , and if your interested in science or philosophy go to this site. http://www.scienceforums.net , its where I hang out. There are interesting topics there. I am not looking at the rods as a paranormal event. I just want to know if there is any science to it. I am unusual, but I don't bend spoons.

akula65 wrote:This might be the first contraption you saw:

http://www.pollardwater.com/emarket/pag ... tracer.asp

Yep...looked a lot like that. Were going to try some today.

Bottom line is that when he was using the copper rods, they were in a black hard case, and he was very serious about using them, and put them back when he was done. He didn't look like he was conning us.

Bettina

Don't be convinced just yet, roidy. I'll whip out the ol' coat hangers tomorrow and give my paranormal abilities a run for thier money



AUGH! IT'S THE SJ SATHANIS! QUICK, TAKE OUT ITS BEAM CANNONS!

Edit: testing.

I took a coat hangar and cut it in two, making two L-shaped wires. I began walking around while holding both and immediately noticed that they were magnetic. I hit them tother repeatedly, which demagnetized them. I then began testing.

test 1: toilet
I walked back and forth from toilet to the end of the room. The wires went together over the toilet bowl.

test 2: water jug
Same experiment and result as first

test 3: sewage pipe
A buried pipe which goes out of the ground a short distance from where I was. I was able to find the pipe, though the pipe did not turn in any direction when it went into the ground and could easily be found simply by looking where the pipe was going.

At this point, this could all be attributed to subconscious mind tricks. I can't go digging holes in the backyard looking for pipes so as soon as my sister wakes up, I'll perform a test in which I will walk over three sealed cups, but only one will be filled with water.

Edit edit:

A suitable "neutral" proving ground is near-impossible to find. After much walking around, I've discovered a 20X30 location in which the wires do not attract. It is interesting to note that while looking for such an area, I often found that the wires would cross at unexpected locations, and upon much confusion and further investigation, I discovered I was walking over an irrigation or drainage pipe.

Wait, LF...you said that the wires were somewhat magnetized? If memory serves me right (wow, I sound like Iron Chef here ), underground pipes can carry at least some small amount of electric current. Couldn't the solution be, at least in terms of using a metal "dowser," that the metallic objects are simply attracted by the electric field present in the pipes? Might be worth some more research. I don't doubt that the stories in this thread did occur, but being rather physics-minded, I'm attributing it to some natural phenomena, not some mysterious ability to find water.

Alright, I did the cup test. The result? It doesn't work, at least with water. I had three cups laid out in the area with no reaction. Due to the help of my sister, I had no idea which one contained water. The wires moved together over all three. In my third and final run, one of the cups elicited a weaker reaction than the other two. I kicked it over to eliminate that one only to find it filled to the brim with water.

[mythbusters]BUSTED![/mythbusters]

i'm reading this very interesting series of experiments regarding a corelation found between psychic stuff and dowsing:
"Dowsing along the psy track"

roid wrote:
oh and MD neither of those pics are mine.

this one however was

Hey look, you can still see Trinity's reflection, kind of an odd shadow for that spider or whatever it is jumping out the window!! U do not rule the choppage yet!!