DescentBB

I read the newsweek article about Meth the other day. I know that the point of the article is to rouse emotion, and that I should try to read as objectivly as possible, but that article really got me going.

The article talks about how meth is the newest drug rage in the states. It also shows the side effects- essentially memory loss, tooth decay as direct side effects. Addiction, burns from lab accidents, etc. and indirect side effects.

What I really had to say was this: Why do people do drugs in the first place. I mean, yeah you can get away with a little bit of most drugs without much in the way of negative side effects, but the problem is that they take over. Why do it? Even if you never personally experience negative side effects, drugs fuel crime, and do damage to a country's economy. I guess I just don't understand- why don't people realize that feeling good for a little while off drugs isn't worth all of the damage that it does- and it does at least some damage no matter how much you do. Drug problems will really only be solved in the end at the consumer end- if noone did drugs, nor had any desire to, how much better would this country be? God help my future children if I ever catch them doing drugs.....

If you put "alcohol" in the drug category I will continue. But people conveniently put drugs AND alcohol in 2 categories. Itâ??s a pile of BS

My sister is a social worker in the Portland, OR area and she expressed to me that meth is worse than crack by a long shot.

Me: I abuse alcohol, tobacco, caffeine, and occasionally smoke marijuana.

Iâ??ll tell you why I abuse chemicals... because I pay my taxes, work 40 hours a week, and live in the land of the free where my daily life isn't interrupted by whiny maggots. Get out of my face.

Thank You

You wrote:Why do people do drugs.

1) Society sucks today far more than it did prior to drugs becoming "illegal"; provides numbness to blank everything out.
2) Society sucks today far more than it did prior to drugs becoming "illegal"; provides numbness to blank everything out.
3) Drugs don't fuel crime, illegal drugs fuel crime.
4) The very fact that drugs were made illegal compels some to do them; see the "Can't Touch This" mentality.
5) Kids on street corners pimping out drugs, thus snaring people and profits.

You wrote:God help my future children if I ever catch them doing drugs.

I guess alcohol, Tylenol, and Advil don't count to you.

A lot of people I knew who did drugs (including myself) did so to escape the horrors of home life.

Some start due to peer pressure also but I think there is still some unhappiness to fuel it on.

I also beleive people who use drugs (be it Alcohol or pot) do so to escape reality. I still like to smoke a joint now and again and be in that "carefree" world but only when I'm at home, a LAN or a friends house and I'm not going out.

Some people have a beer or two, I prefer a joint.

Weakness of character, and/or not knowing any better (aside from the illegality factor). My parents made it clear to me from the start that drugs were bad and unacceptible, and why.

Around preteen through teenage years, you can't deny the existence of "peer pressure". The term is used so often that it triggers almost instant snickers, but it's there, I swear. It started me smoking, for example. Being around my friends who already smoked numbed my will, and I went from being a fervent anti-smoker to a pack of Marlboro Reds a day in 2 short months. Unlike most teenagers, I don't feel like I'm thumbing my nose at authority; a lot of teenagers, however, get their kicks this way and that's why they smoke. They're easy to spot, too. They're the kinds of people who draw attention to the fact that they're smoking, and usually are general attention-whores. In general, I'm ashamed of the fact that I smoke, but unfortunately I've become dependent on nicotene. Right now I'm 6 days into a 2-week period in which I cannot smoke, and I'm definitely going through withdrawl.

Knowing how easily I became a smoker, I don't drink, smoke pot, etc. They're all drugs -- really, what isn't? Even sugar could be considered a drug, depending on how pedantic you want to be. The last thing I need to do is become addicted, physically or mentally, to any sort of substance that could have a detrimental effect on my mind. I'm already ruining my body enough as it is.

Oh, and nobody feed me the line about how marijuana isn't addicting. It can be incredibly mentally addicting; I've seen it happen.

DC - give it up man, your future will be glad you did.

I have some occasional wine, beer, and very rarely, a good Scotch. But I know when to say enough. I think many (certainly not all) can do this with booze, but is there such a thing as just a little heroin? a little crack? a little meth? I don't think moderation would work with some of this modern chemistry.

Why do people do it? Because people are sometimes weak, stupid or worse. Peer pressure seems like a big deal for kids because when you're under twenty a month or a year seems like an eternity, so your problems seem like they'll last forever. But when your forty-plus, a year seems to pass in a heart beat, so your problems don't seem to have that long term duration.

an article/transcription about drugs;

http://deoxy.org/t_weeke1.htm

and what are 'we' not addicted to.?

maybe I skimmed, but ... "weakness of character" ?! WtF ?!... lucky for you, Sgt Thong, your parents made sure of none of that ! Holy SHeep sheet attit-dude ...

another name for meth -- ritalin.

Okay, personal experience talking here. The main reason why people (I aswell) do drugs range from wanting to be 'part of the crowd' all the way to experimentation and even spiritual enlightenment or awareness.

A group of friends get together, and decide to put on a movie and pass around a coule joints. After the group is fully stoned, we start commenting on the movie, and relate by telling stories. some stories can range from the sublime to the ridiculous.


I think people would be better equipped to handle drugs and their effects if they got their information from reliable and objective sources such as erowid.org, instead of reading about how scary drugs are from the local paper.

I really question the authenticity of these 'clinical studies' in the local paper when the paper's agenda is to attract a certain demographic and keep them by any means necessary, including fearmongering.

oh and DC, about the 'mentally addicting' part that you said about pot; The newspapers use that line almost verbatm, and they're full of ★■◆●. If that were true, i'd be smoking almost a pound a day. But guess what. I'm not. I haven't touched the stuff in almost two years.

mentally addicting my ass.

Depends on the person Ferno...I think you forget how weak minded some are





As far as moderating the use of your drug intake is concerned, most people don't want to be strong when it comes to pleasuring themselves. I've done ALL kinds of drugs (crack, coke, acid, ecstasy, marijuana, etc.) but unlike the people I did them with, I knew when to stop...self control is the result of the application of morals and common sense to ones life. Try it, it's beautiful

http://cannabisculture.com/articles/1656.html

...
Amphetamine vs caffeine

A key question in the safety of any substance is the amount and concentration of the dose taken, and the form of use. Amphetamines taken in moderate doses are a safe a reliable stimulant. It is only when large doses are repeatedly smoked or injected that health and psychological problems may occur.

In his massive, scholarly work Pharmacotheon, respected entheogenic researcher Jonathon Ott discusses the research comparing amphetamine to caffeine.

"Quite a bit of research has been conducted comparing caffeine with amphetamines," explains Ott, "and almost invariably, amphetamines turn out to be superior." He continues to explain that amphetamines improve reaction time and increase the steadiness of the hands, while caffeine does not improve reaction time, and actually impairs steadiness. He also quotes a summary of the caffeine/amphetamine comparison studies, which says that "at dose levels that clearly enhance performance, the amphetamines seem not only more effective than caffeine, but less costly in terms of side effects."

"I'd feel much safer if my pilot on an all-night flight had taken 10mg of methamphetamine before departing... instead of chain-smoking Marlboros and gulping execrable airline coffee all the way," conludes Ott, adding that "NASA, which has conducted research on optimizing performance of austronauts, settled on a NASA-developed 'prescription' containing amphetamines for the pilots of the space shuttle..."

Ott concludes that "the US Federal Aviation Administration is guilty of defaulting on its obligations to protect the safety of air travelers, by allowing the use by pilots of inferior stimulants which impair the steadiness of pilots' hands and degrade their night vision."
...

hehe..... LOL!@!#@. get with the program you guys.
and the information will set you free!!!

i'll read this thread proper tomorrow when i'm not drunk (that would be alcohol, this drug sucks), which i currently a little am. to much red wine & rum+colas k.!

★■◆● i totally have fergoten my insulin!~@!!
/me whips out handy a syringe the likes of which you have never seeeeeen.

Made a bee-line towards alcohol, ciggies and grass as soon as i was able to, not because i was weak, 'cause i was curious. That's the whole thing about being young. Then i dabbled quite a bit with LSD which was wonderful, but won't be repeated. I was actually pressured into having speed and coke, but because i knew myself quite well, i declined. I'd have loved it far too much.

Nowadays i can't do without a drink in the evening, glass of wine or a beer, and every now and again go to the greenhouse for a joint.

IMHO, all drugs wether it be pot, coke, beer, wine, cigarettes, coffee etc are mentally addicting. You become dependant on them to function. How many people here get up in the morning and need a coffee before you can "get going"? Or need that morning "cigarette"? Don't lie cause I know most of you do.

In high school, I needed my fix of pot daily. I smoked a whole bunch cause I enjoyed it. I still enjoy it today but not as often. Today, I find myself needing a Tim Hortons coffee at least once a day. I know I cango without it but I enjoy iot so I buy them when I can.

Some drugs are physically addicting but ALL drugs are mentally addicting. YOu come to a point where you justify taking the drug and you can't stop yourself without getting external help.

Personally I'm not into smoking at all (either cigs or joints). Most of people my age are very aware of what they are doing, my parents generation are not however.

If you're fully aware of what you're doing and the implications it causes, any use of light drugs is fine by me.

For example, I like to abuse alcohol once in a while..

Drugs the topic I know all to well. I started doing drugs at a young age, due to a very rough home life(father was an abusive alcoholic and drug addict, then led to divorce). I found myself only being able to relate with people with drugs. Many years went by with many drugs tried. Drugs are everywhere, alcohol is included in the that category, and we just keep taking them. Now I've cleaned myself of all illegal drugs but now I'm on meds for a chemical imbalance(go figure). I guess I'm never going to stop using some sort of drug. All I want to say is I uderstand why people use drugs, its to much fun and makes great stories.
Sorry for babbling on "The Muffy" story.
It all depends on the person that makes the crime. Some people use drugs and some people abuse drugs.

CDN_Merlin wrote:A lot of people I knew who did drugs (including myself) did so to escape the horrors of home life.

I'm not trying to be offensive, to you Merlin, or to Muffalicious, or anyone else in saying this.

I think that's the reason that a whole lot of people, and it's a vicious cycle. People have horrible home situations because of (go figure) alcohol and illegal drugs, so they turn to those very things to escape... eventually recreating the same horrible home for those who love them. Until someone responds to their crappy situation in a different way, the cycle will keep on feeding itself. (I understand that some people clean up later in life- and that absolutely great.)

To answer you Cops, I was referring to illegal drugs primarily... but they are illegal for a reason (legalizing them will only help some of the problems they cause.) and there are legal substances (such as alcohol) that can be abused to the point of causing the same level of destruction as the abuse of illegal drugs... So I guess I'm talking about the abuse of chemicals, and illegal drugs, abused or not.

Snoopy, my home life was bad because of my parents divorce when I was 7. It was very bitter and hurtful what my parents did with my sister and I to gain ground in court.

When I started smoking pot at 12 I needed to feel wanted/loved by people and this is why I started. My cousin (who I was vey close to since childhood)introduced them to me. Then as I got in my mid teens I smoked more and more.

By that time my home life was nothing more than go home for supper and sleep. I didn't spend any more time there than I needed to. When I hit 19 I moved out with my g/f (presently my wife) and never looked back. I disowned my father in 1995 and recently my mother in 2004.

I have not talked to anyone else in my family for ages.

When I was still smoking in the 80s, all I needed was someone to love me like I should of been from my parents and my wife did that and I quit drugs cold turkey. Today, I enjoy smoking once or twice a year at LANs or a rare party I go to. It also relaxes me and opens me up.

i did illegal drugs as an experiment or peer pressure, or what have you. it was offered, i was interested, i did it. weed, hash, coke (u can ★■◆● like a beast with this stuff!!!), lsd, mescaline, acid, they were all fun for a time but eventually i stopped. it was just time to quit mentally. now i did go back to the old stomping grounds back in july and had a couple hits of the ganja and either my memories are more nostalgic than i realized or it was just bad stuff, but it was not the same experience i was used to, rather disheartening really.

i do legal drugs, cigarettes, beer, liqour and aleve (usually in that order). the beer came from the party daze and stuck with me through now, the liqour was another peer pressure thing that i ended up enjoying immensely and thanking the person for introducing me to it. the cigarettes were stupid and still are but ★■◆● it, i'm honest enough to say that i'm addicted and i get anxious when i THINK about quitting. god thank u for aleve, amen.

snoop, the only thing you can do is talk to your kids about drugs and hope they make the best decision possible based on the information that you give them. it's inevitable that they'll try it but at least it'll be a somewhat informed decision, hell, have them post on this forum for enlightening drug induced stories .

my step-kid is almost 20 and hasn't tried either alcohol or illegal drugs, god bless 'em. or at least that's what he says

Well,
I am kind of an extremist in many regards. Itâ??s my personality. I have gone way more overboard with sex addiction and guitar playing than any drugs or alcohol I have used.

It can be argued that sex and music are wonderful things, they most certainly are. The problem for me was that they became everything I did. My world was too narrow, too specialized.

Now, I can take them or leave them for long periods of time... or maybe that's rationalizing a dry spell. ;-0

Everyone will tell you moderation/balance is the key to being happy. I agree kind of. If it were not for my addictive personality I wouldn't be able to vomit out songs on a whim or be a good lover even when rusty.

Itâ??s all the same to me is what Iâ??m saying. They will all kill you if you obsess over them. There is a lot of world out there and specializing can be your undoing.

It seems that which we desire too much will either kill us or we will kill it. (and other assorted bull★■◆●)

TheCope wrote:It’s all the same to me is what I’m saying. They will all kill you if you obsess over them. There is a lot of world out there and specializing can be your undoing.

I reckon thats one of the best things i've read in this place for a long old while.


.......takes tongue out of Copsys ass and licks lips!!!!

I suppose I started smoking pot out of curiousity and peer pressure. I did not see a downside other than the legality. I would see people get stoned, and they would still be rational, healthy people. They didn't go crazy and jump out of windows, or murder people. So one day my brother invited me to go burn. I did. I enjoyed it. I liked the buzz. An hour or two later, I was felt completely normal.

LSD was a bit more of a leap of faith for me. People were saying it was crazy and that it needed to be treated with more respect than dope. It was really going to mess you up for hours, so some care had to be put into it. I took the leap, and took half a tab. Describing that first trip would take 2000 words, so I'll skip it. But I liked it. I really, really liked it. It gave me a completely new perspective on life. I did a lot of it for a year or two.

After LSD, shrooms were a given. They had been described to me as a lot like acid, but mellow. Less edge. Shrooms were never around much, so I only ate them a few times. I also enjoyed shrooms.

Ecstasy wasn't really around back in my day, so I never did it. I did, however, take what was supposedly an Ecstasy and Acid mix. It just felt like a warmer acid.

I haven't done LSD or shrooms in 10 years. I never consciously quit them. I guess I just felt that I had explored LSD to it's limit, and I lost interest in doing it further. It never felt like there was a void that had to be filled after I stopped.

I'm a terrible drinker. I have little self control in terms of drinking moderation. Get a couple beers in me, and I don't stop. So I don't drink too often.

I've never really wanted to do any other drugs. Meth took a couple of my friends and turned them into dirtbags early on, so when it grew in popularity, and more people I knew started doing it, I avoided it. I've lost some good friends because of crank.

Coke was never around early on, so I never tried it. I have a couple long time friends that do it from time to time, and it doesn't look all that bad, but I never saw much upside in it. It didn't have the mind expanding promise of LSD and shrooms, and when it's around, I'm usually already good to go from pot and alcohol.

I'm fairly satisfied with my drug experiences. I was perhaps lucky with the circumstances that surrounded my experiences. I recognized the drugs I wanted to do, and the drugs I didn't. I wasn't pressured or led to do something that would ruin my life with addiction.

I still smoke dope frequently. It's pretty much my only vice. As far as vices go, I could probably do a lot worse.

I did LSD for the summer or 89 and liked it somewhat. I was buzzed for avg 10 hours per hit. So I only took 1 while some people I knew took upto 4. They were also the ones who saw blood coming out of the shower head.

Never did coke or mesc. Did shrooms once and the taste turned me completly off. Buzz was just like hash to me so I figured by pay more for it.

I'm happy that I did dope in my life and experienced what I have. If I had the chance to redo my childhood, I think I'd still smoke but not as much.

.. but, and so ,what about DMT...? the endogenous neurotransmitter..?... Who other than Birdseye on the DBB, has a story about trying that substance..? If not, tell us about it Birdseye ..!

Coke was my drug I did the most but I tried meth. Meth was way to intense for me. I'm deffinently a extremist and I ended up kickin myself in the ass. All the drugs I did(weed, LSD, coke, shrooms, meth, ex, and other crazy drugs out there) taught me a lot about life and all people in it. Most of my friends ended up goin down the crack and herion road and I went down the clean road. I had to quit cold turkey. I now started a new environment for myself so I don't continue that crazy cycle for my children.

environment is everything to a recovering addict...good for you Muff'

I smoke pot and drink. It's a social lubricant, it relaxes, it's a good time at parties, you meet people, you swap funny stories, you hook up with women. But if one is responsibile, they can use drugs without abusing them. Huge difference. Like the difference between driving a car and crashing one.

First and foremost, the drug is not a problem until it interferes with life.

I set rules for myself that are set in stone as far as I'm concerned. I don't do anything heavier than booze and weed - the booze I've been able to control all my life because I have my priorities and I know if I booze it up all weekend that it's back to work on Monday and no alcohol during the week, except maybe a beer during the Cardinals game. Moderation. I have school, I have my friends, my family, the ladies, and I can't go f'ing up my future because of drugs. Since I can control the booze, it's not fatal, though it has the potential to be, but I control it. The heavier ★■◆●, the cocaine and the H and whatnot, turns your body against itself. It will kill you, and it is something that cannot be controlled. That's why I don't do it, and have never had the desire. I don't want that lack of control, and I don't want that pain. Your body can't go without it without falling into depression.
And as far as LSD and Shrooms, I don't do it because I think I'd freak out and have a heart attack. Seriously, when I get too high on weed I get so paranoid that I start really freaking out, and I can't even imagine how bad I'd be on a real psychadelic.

The point of all this is that too much of anything, even sex and rock and roll is too much. Not that it matters in the end, we're all just trying to grope our way through this maze anyway.

The definition of drug is rediculously broad, and for good reason. There's basically nothing you can encounter that won't cause some sort of state change to you.

I think it's hard to say drugs are bad because they can be addictive and destructive. The chemicals released by your brain to create emotions are the exact same things, and not neccecarily safer. Your brain *usually* doesn't overdose itself, that's really the only difference.

That said, I don't do illegal drugs. 'Cause I don't want a criminal record. That's pretty much why.

snoopy wrote:What I really had to say was this: Why do people do drugs in the first place.

why do people (in general) do drugs in the first place?
this is a question of the human condition - metaphysics, the meaning of life. why do you drive fast? why do you not roll over and do what is expected of you? one simple explanation is that just like any recreational activity it adds interest to life.
if the reasons FOR outweigh the reasons AGAINST - then why not?

but the problem is that they take over

actually that's rare. tons of ppl take various drugs and few are addicted.
i drink alcohol, i'm not addicted. should i be afraid of being addicted?

drugs fuel crime,

drugs do not fuel crime - drug laws create the criminal element where none should be. When you outlaw something, you instantly create a criminal element.

...and do damage to a country's economy

drug LAWS deal far more damage to the ecconomy.

why don't people realize that feeling good for a little while off drugs isn't worth all of the damage that it does

it would seem that from the sheer numbers of ppl who take drugs recreationally - that most people disagree with your statement of worth.

and it does at least some damage no matter how much you do

that is incorrect.

Drug problems will really only be solved in the end at the consumer end- if noone did drugs, nor had any desire to, how much better would this country be?

ain't gonna happen. how long has the drug war being going on? loosely over a hundred years now. just give up, or at least ask yourself "wtf are we doing".
you will have to accept that other people simply hold different ideals and concepts of worth to you.
in a free society you should respect that.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:Weakness of character

wow... you seriously want a character debate? bring it on

dissent wrote:I have some occasional wine, beer, and very rarely, a good Scotch. But I know when to say enough. I think many (certainly not all) can do this with booze, but is there such a thing as just a little heroin? a little crack? a little meth? I don't think moderation would work with some of this modern chemistry.

but they do. i've known of ppl who take "a little meth" everymorning instead of a morning coffee. and it really is a little. like everything in life dosage is important. Saying that dosage is irrelevant "coz they're drugs!" is just plain ignorant. As if these chemicals hold some demon force inside them that is just too dangerous to even toy with - this is not the dark ages ppl.

dosage with caffine is important, you all know that.
dosage with alcohol is important, you all know that.

dosage with stimulants like coccaine or meth (OR CAFFINE) is important. an overdose can easily give you a heartattack (THIS INCLUDES CAFFINE).

snoopy wrote:To answer you Cops, I was referring to illegal drugs primarily... but they are illegal for a reason (legalizing them will only help some of the problems they cause.) and there are legal substances (such as alcohol) that can be abused to the point of causing the same level of destruction as the abuse of illegal drugs... So I guess I'm talking about the abuse of chemicals, and illegal drugs, abused or not.

no this is entirely wrong snoopy, drugs are not illegal for a reason. alcohol is one of the most dangerous drugs there are, yet it's not illegal. cannabis has been proven time and time again to be relatively harmless (relative to say... coffee) and yet in most countrys it is catagorised as one of the most dangerous drugs in existance. Drug laws do not make sense.
most people do not know much about drugs and why there are laws. you don't know the amount of ppl i've heard use teh same reasoning:
"drugs are bad because they are illegal" & "drugs are illegal because they are bad".
It's a circle, this is the reasoning most people use on the issue of drugs.

to have a debate on drugs, one of the first things people need to be educated on is that drug laws are not based on scientific and medicinal fact.
The DEA even refuses to discuss or debate on the matter.



Source: Dr. Jack E. Henningfield, Ph.D. for NIDA. Reported by: Philip J. Hilts, New York Times, Aug. 2, 1994 "Is Nicotine Addictive? It Depends on Whose Criteria You Use." - lifted from http://www.csdp.org/

since this thread was initially fueled by a media article on meth (that i as yet still havn't seen... link pls?):

Meth In America: Hype Or Crisis?

Doctors, Scientists, Medical Researchers Call On Media To Be More Careful & Less Outrageous In Their Coverage Of Meth

http://www.csdp.org/news/news/methupdate.htm

roid wrote:since this thread was initially fueled by a media article on meth (that i as yet still havn't seen... link pls?)

nm i found a link to it in this section of the wiki article on crystal meth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methamphet ... ted_States
Current Controversy in the United States

On August 8, 2005, the weekly newsmagazine Newsweek ran a cover story devoted to methamphetamine use in the U.S., [1], and noted that the drug policy of the George W. Bush administration has come under criticism for its focus on prevention and prohibition of cannabis instead. Critics feel that the Bush administration has not devoted enough resources to education about and prevention of meth use, in light of its widespread availability and the potentially grave consequences of long-term abuse. The Bush administration has countered with the position that cannabis is a dangerous gateway drug, and that prevention of cannabis use will prevent potential abusers from trying and becoming hooked on "hard" drugs such as meth. Meanwhile, the online magazine Slate posted an article concurrently with the Newsweek article (actually, slightly beforehand, on August 3) [2], attacking Newsweek for failing to approriately cite sources and data to back up the claim that this is a "new" problem. Overall, the topic remains controversial.

heh
http://slate.msn.com/id/2123838/

All of the arguements that drugs aren't really that bad, and comparing them to caffein and alcohol always seem to come from the other side of the fence--drug users. I consider the source.

Isn't that a bit obvious. People who have taken drugs and drank alcohol can compare the two. People who only drink....can't.

Sergeant Thorne wrote:All of the arguements that drugs aren't really that bad, and comparing them to caffein and alcohol always seem to come from the other side of the fence--drug users. I consider the source.

you can only avoid the scientific community for so long Thorne. The truth will still getcha in the end

Sergeant Thorne wrote:All of the arguements that drugs aren't really that bad, and comparing them to caffein and alcohol always seem to come from the other side of the fence--drug users. I consider the source.

You come off like some guy who waited until marriage to have sex (not that that's bad) and is trying to tell me what good sex is, you have no reference point, your wife may be a terrible lover. You don't know what you are talking about at all; you have no experience with the subject first hand at all. Yet, you make grandiose statements like you are a wise old man. You are not.

I don't condone the use of drugs of any kind. But you could save some face by shutting your friggin' yapper. If I need a preacher Iâ??ll go to church and listen to it, then decline their request for a â??donationâ?

And for the record, I don't care what anyone says - meth is the white trash of drugs

And all the holier than thou "Christians" - enjoy living your lives in a bubble.

One of the greatest philosophies ever written, I still practice on a daily basis, "everything in moderation". This includes all things.

and remember to take moderation in moderation too

TheCope wrote:Put a sock in it Mr. Clean you are theorizing, we have the experience, this is about living not book smarts.

Well, yeah, that's why this thread is rather interesting. Copsy's right; I don't have the experience of those who have taken illegal drugs, and I never will. That's my choice, based on my assessment of why I would ever want, or feel the need, to put anything like that into my body.

Roid,
The point of my post was moderation. I guess it's really easy to use anecdotal evidence (I know so and so who took this every morning, etc...), but that doesn't say much about what the effect of a substance would be on the general population. I've known several people who smoked (tobacco) for many years without cancer, but I'm not willing to put that up against the evidence for a larger population sample that shows this is a bad thing for you, healthwise. Some interesting stuff in the balnce of your post(s), though. As a society, we need to decide what substances are acceptable and which are not. We could just get rid of all of the criminal element by saying that everything is permissable, but I have to tell you honestly, that I do not want to live there.

Only a fool equates infirmity with accomplishment.

roid wrote:and remember to take moderation in moderation too

yep!