DescentBB

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172968,00.html#top

don't you just love storys like these.

FOX NEWS
Teen Held in Vitale Murder Reportedly Satanist
Friday, October 21, 2005
â?¢
Wife of TV Legal Analyst Horowitz Murdered
MARTINEZ, Calif. â?? The teenager arrested in the slaying of a prominent defense attorney's wife once drew a pentagram on the ground at school and told other students he was reading from the book of Satan, according to former classmates.

...

The suspect was described as a quiet student at Acalanes High School (search) in Lafayette, where he stood out because of his attire.

"He was really gothic, always wore a long, dark jacket," said Kevin Etheridge, 16. "He'd hang out with a few kids, but he was pretty quiet, pretty much to himself."

Another student remembered him drawing a pentagram on the ground with chalk in junior high school and dancing around it with other students.

"He told people the book that he was carrying and reading from was the book of Satan," Keith Kingon said...

look out Fox-Watchin' fundies, the Satanists are gonna get ya!

Honestly, in today's day and age why would anyone be printing this crap anymore. The common misconception of Satanist cults who go kill people and do horrible things are based solely on christian fears, the groups simply DO NOT EXIST! they are one of the greatest urban legends.

The terrifying "Book of Satan" had nothing to do with this murder.

http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/potter.htm

Again and again we are told -- by journalists, police, and fundamentalists -- that there exists a secret network of criminal fanatics, worshippers of Satan, who are responsible for kidnapping, human sacrifice, sexual abuse and torture of children, drug-dealing, mutilation of animals, desecration of churches and cemeteries, pornography, heavy metal lyrics, and cannibalism.

This popular tale is almost entirely without foundation, but the legend continues to gather momentum, in the teeth of evidence and good sense. Networks of 'child advocates', credulous or self-serving social workers, instant-expert police officers, and unscrupulous ministers of religion help to spread the panic, along with fabricated survivors' memoirs passed off as true accounts, and irresponsible broadcast 'investigations'. A classic witch-hunt, comparable to those of medieval Europe, is under way. Innocent victims are smeared and railroaded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_ritual_abuse
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanism#Satanic_cults

The existence of large networks of organized Satanists involved in illegal activities, murder, and child abuse is occasionally claimed, often by fundamentalist religious movements. Those claims have never been substantiated and are widely believed to be false. See conspiracy theories.

Roid it looks like you're spinning a bigger yarn than FOX news did!

All they said was the guy that did the crime was known to be, at least at times, fascinated by satanism. All true.

You, on the other hand, have basically indicted them for reporting satanist are responsible and coming to get us! All untrue....

lol. another fox news shockstory. not suprised.

Ferno wrote:lol. another fox news shockstory. not suprised.

What part of the story is shock value? Or are you just taking Roids interpretation of it and his connecting it to the extraneous, irrelevant anecdotal offerings, at face value?

The teenager arrested in the slaying of a prominent defense attorney's wife once drew a pentagram on the ground at school and told other students he was reading from the book of Satan, according to former classmates.

This sets up the line of thinking that 'OMG satanists are gonna kill us all!' to the impressionable.

hence 'shockstory'.

What Ferno says exactly. It's obvious how ppl will read this - they will get the WRONG impression. It will fuel fear and hatred.

it is a problem.

It could be a valid question to ask if FOX knows that people reading this will get the wrong impression - and they are therefore doing it purposefully. Or if they are just nieve. i doubt the later.

What has this kid's religious curiosity have to do with his murders? nothing. so why do they mention it.

tell me... what is this news story about to you? Make a list of all the facts put forward in this newsstory, then rate all of these facts by how likely you think a person be to skim over them or forget them soon after they finish reading.

the fact that the kid was a Satanist is the TOP FACT.
they are linking Satanism with Murder - and they of course give no explanation as to the link - the audience is ment to make the connection automatically. Why would they link a religion (an arguable definition of Satanism) with murder? Is it really at all relevant unless the religion had some kindof DIRECT link with murders?

I can understand them pointing out that someone is an extremist Muslim - as their beliefs on killing are well known in the public mindset.
But Satanism? They mention that because they know that their nieve audience is terrorised by the thought of Satanism - based on urban myths. And why on earth would they want to put ppl's minds at ease by educating them on the truth? ★■◆● no, that would be against the agenda. the agenda is to keep people scared.

FOX NEWS ARE TERRORISTS

...as are many, if not most, media outlets.
why do you put up with it?
and more importantly: why do you defend them?

roid wrote:
FOX NEWS ARE TERRORISTS

...as are many, if not most, media outlets.
why do you put up with it?
and more importantly: why do you defend them?

LOL .. aren't ALL news networks?

Duper wrote:

roid wrote:
FOX NEWS ARE TERRORISTS

...as are many, if not most, media outlets.
why do you put up with it?
and more importantly: why do you defend them?

LOL .. aren't ALL news networks?

...as are many, if not most, media outlets.

Roid/Ferno your leftwing biased is showing through again. Fox is not the only one to portray the story like this



from CBS

A teenager described by former classmates as a brooding nonconformist with an interest in the occult

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/ ... OME_965216


from MSNBC

A teenager described by former classmates as a brooding nonconformist with an interest in the occult was charged as an adult in the murder of the wife of a prominent defense attorney.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9715289/

from CBS/AP

(CBS/AP) The teenager arrested in the slaying of a prominent defense attorney's wife once drew a pentagram on the ground at school and told other students he was reading from the book of Satan, according to former classmates

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/ ... 1411.shtml


Iits amazing how your clear bias shows through sometimes so stop trying to act like your a mainstreamer and do some reasearch before you spout off, you wont look so stupid next time

Roid wrote:...as are many, if not most, media outlets.
why do you put up with it?
and more importantly: why do you defend them?

yes why do you put up with it Roid why DO you defend the leftwing media while attack the "right"

Roid wrote:The terrifying "Book of Satan" had nothing to do with this murder.

and you know this for a fact? how?

CUDA wrote:

Roid wrote:...as are many, if not most, media outlets.
why do you put up with it?
and more importantly: why do you defend them?

yes why do you put up with it Roid why DO you defend the leftwing media while attack the "right"

i swear, it's like the first line is invisible - you are the 2nd person to ignore it and act like i'm down on FOX and no-one else. Yet on the first quoted line it says right there plain as day "AS ARE MANY, IF NOT MOST, MEDIA OUTLETS". i guess i need to surround it in neon.

And where am i defending the left-wing media?

CUDA wrote:

Roid wrote:The terrifying "Book of Satan" had nothing to do with this murder.

and you know this for a fact? how?

Because no relevant facts were reported. Did you spot any relevance?

stop trying to act like your a mainstreamer

honestly, what does that mean?

So I guess when all the news outlets wrote stories about Jeffrey Dahmer (and many other mass murderers) and interviewed their friends and nieghbors and reported that they said things like "He was just a regular, normal person..."
Then they were really stirring up fear in all of us that 'regular, normal people' are coming to kill us?

There is a test used in law that refers to a "reasonable and rational person". In your example you are ascribing conclusions to the average reader that wouldn't be reached by a reasonable or rational person. You are the ones spinning sensationalism.

aha! i finally see a semblance of relevance!

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/ ... 1411.shtml

According to published reports cited by CBS News correspondent Vince Gonzeles, Vitale had a symbol carved into her back.

if this is a pentagram or something then it would make sense to mention the kid's interest in the occult.

But it still doesn't do much to stifle the common urban myth that satanists are violent & dangerous people. I think this a nessesary addition, just as it was thought nessesary to put "Muslims are not all terrorists" disclaimers on early post-911 news-articles that mentioned Muslim terrorists. To discourage INACCURATE stereotyping.

Will Robinson wrote:There is a test used in law that refers to a "reasonable and rational person". In your example you are ascribing conclusions to the average reader that wouldn't be reached by a reasonable or rational person.

i think i know the public psyche enough to know differently.

If you want a more sober presentation of occult crime go here:

http://www.holysmoke.org/report/

if this is a pentagram or something then it would make sense to mention the kid's interest in the occult.

so it ok the mention that this has something to do with the Occult which it appears that it does, but just as long as FOX news doesnt do it. kinda hypocritical dont ya think?

But it still doesn't do much to stifle the common urban myth that satanists are violent & dangerous people. I think this a nessesary addition, just as it was thought nessesary to put "Muslims are not all terrorists" disclaimers on early post-911 news-articles that mentioned Muslim terrorists. To discourage INACCURATE stereotyping

hrm appears that "if" this is true then it wouldn't be innaccurate sterotyping now would it most "Urban Myths" are based of some form of fact, does that make them true? not neccesarily, but you cannot totally dismiss them

roid wrote:

Will Robinson wrote:There is a test used in law that refers to a "reasonable and rational person". In your example you are ascribing conclusions to the average reader that wouldn't be reached by a reasonable or rational person.

i think i know the public psyche enough to know differently.

As one member of the public I'd just like to go on record as saying you are dead wrong about your understanding of us.

x2

X3

roid wrote: look out Fox-Watchin' fundies, the Satanists are gonna get ya!

Honestly, in today's day and age why would anyone be printing this crap anymore. The common misconception of Satanist cults who go kill people and do horrible things are based solely on christian fears, the groups simply DO NOT EXIST! they are one of the greatest urban legends.

Roid, you are an idiot. Come out here to where I live and ask if Satanic cults are still around and wether or not they had an influence in suicides/murders.

A number of years ago, I worked with a guy that was moved by the FBI when he stumble across a group of Satanists that had Masons and several judges involved in a child porn ring. Horrible "porn". mutilation while raping little kids.. that kinda thing. He would have been dead except that an undercover FBI dude said he would "off him" and took him to the hospital after he was given a drug.

This guy was the kind that was not shaken by much and was very care free. He had been missing from work for a week and when he returned, he was really REALLY freeked out. Always looking out windows and was afraid to go anywhere.

Now, I'm not raggin on Masons .. don't go off on that. But in my home town there was a coven that was very active and not in charity events.

CUDA wrote:

roid wrote:if this is a pentagram or something then it would make sense to mention the kid's interest in the occult.

so it ok the mention that this has something to do with the Occult which it appears that it does, but just as long as FOX news doesnt do it. kinda hypocritical dont ya think?

FOX news didn't mention any points of relevance linking the murder with the kid's interest in the occult.

ok, this should explain it:
If i reported about a devout christian who murdered someone, and i reported about how they had crosses hanging on the walls all through their house and went to church all the time. Now... what has that got to do with the murder? I may as well be talking about their favourite colour - it has no relevance.
But then i say how they CARVED A CROSS INTO THE VICTIM. and yowza, their Christianity is suddenly proven to be a relevant point.

Their favourite colour would also be relevant if they had for instance painted the victim that colour. see? but unless it was relevant why the hell would you talk about their favourite colour in the report.

likewise why would you report about the murder's religion unless you were going to:
(A) show it's relevance to the murder. or
(B) assume your readers already assume the relevance.

it is the media outlets' seeming choice of "B" that i am angry about. As it is based on an incorrect stereotype. Need i also point out incorrect african-american stereotypes and explain how some urban myths led people to believe the stereotypes?

(if you want to do your own reading, it involves the history of drugs and racism. google search on cocaine black white impervious bullets)

Everyone knows i'm not a fan of News Corp and it's subsidiaries (ie: FOX), but i'm neither a fan of any of the big 6. So will you stop implying that i LIKE any of the major media outlets, you have nothing to back that up.


Thx for the link Woodchip.

Thx for the 2nd hand report Duper. It certainly adds to the debate.

Top Wop, no i don't think i'm going to travel to your town to check out your local folklaw. Instead of requesting that i take your word for it, why don't you type your points out instead.

Roid, you are an idiot.

wtf is with the personal hostility.
If you have a way of refuting my points then put them on the table. That's how it works on forums.
**throws peanuts back at you**

so, you guys are saying that these reports saying that "Violent Satanic Cults are a myth" are wrong, yeah? That they don't know what they are talking about because if only they talked to YOU personally about it, YOU would set them straight no worries.

It seems to me that these investigators have talked to a bunch of people just like you, with stories like yours, yet have found that when looked at rationally the storys cannot be substantiated and even have proof to the contrary.


I really didn't think i'd meet much resistance in this thread to the statement that "Violent Satanist Cults are an urban myth", but if you like i can wipe the slate clean and we can concentrate on that point.
i'm all for it.

what'dya say?

I'd say "The Devil Made Us Do It".

the devil has nothing to do with it

Roid your so transparent it inst funny

roid wrote:http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,172968,00.html#top

don't you just love storys like these.

FOX NEWS
Teen Held in Vitale Murder Reportedly Satanist
Friday, October 21, 2005
â?¢
Wife of TV Legal Analyst Horowitz Murdered
MARTINEZ, Calif. â?? The teenager arrested in the slaying of a prominent defense attorney's wife once drew a pentagram on the ground at school and told other students he was reading from the book of Satan, according to former classmates.

...

The suspect was described as a quiet student at Acalanes High School (search) in Lafayette, where he stood out because of his attire.

"He was really gothic, always wore a long, dark jacket," said Kevin Etheridge, 16. "He'd hang out with a few kids, but he was pretty quiet, pretty much to himself."

Another student remembered him drawing a pentagram on the ground with chalk in junior high school and dancing around it with other students.

"He told people the book that he was carrying and reading from was the book of Satan," Keith Kingon said...

look out Fox-Watchin' fundies, the Satanists are gonna get ya!

Roid wrote:i swear, it's like the first line is invisible - you are the 2nd person to ignore it and act like i'm down on FOX and no-one else.

FOX NEWS ARE TERRORISTS /

look out Fox-Watchin' fundies, the Satanists are gonna get ya!

FOX news didn't mention any points of relevance linking the murder with the kid's interest in the occult.

heh Not CBS news are terrorists, or AP news are Terrorists.when they both told the same story. quit lying to yourself and to us


read your own words Roid, you try to Demonise FOX news because of the way they wrote a story, but when you post it you post blipverts of it trying to portray it in the worse light possible.
I have posted link to other news agencies that have said the same thing in thier articles but you chose to lambast FOX. this thread as you are now trying to make it was not about the Satanists. it was about your distain for FOX news be man enough to admit it

First off its not the presses job to link the two its law enforcements. obviously someone in law enforecment told this to them, as I have already posted several other news agencies reported a possible link between the two. FOX did not make this up. now if you had really meant to make this a post about Satanists Possibly killing this woman then there would have been no need for the comment

Fox-Watchin' fundies

now would there
I do kinda like how your fishing expidition hooked Ferno tho, but just like in the last FOX news thread
he reads your distorted article ( hrm kinda like you accuse FOX of doing ) then posts his reaction to it. and leaves never to return. Mr Fuel meet Mr Fire

Roid, I dont mean to make a personal attack on you, but saying that Satanic cults do not exist is quite idiotic. Mayby there is nothing going on down there in Australia land, but in my particular area in Illinois cults were a problem in the suburban communities 10 years ago and before. You could read about them in the newspapers. Now things have quieted down. If you are so interested then do the research for yourself because I only stop by the forums to talk a few points and move on. Im not going to put down the time to do something along the lines of proving if the sky is blue and not pink (unless you are blind).

roid wrote:...
likewise why would you report about the murder's religion unless you were going to:
(A) show it's relevance to the murder. or
(B) assume your readers already assume the relevance.

it is the media outlets' seeming choice of "B" that i am angry about.
...

I don't agree with his assessment that malicious Satanism is not an actual threat anymore, but Roid makes a very good point in the quote above.

Without any connection made clear (unless I missed the explicit connection in the article), what was the point of emphasizing these facts?

BTW, I am a Christian, and I don't believe for a second that Satanism is a dead system, or that it's harmless - I know of some specific crimes (mostly ritual cruelty to animals, along with some more serious things) linked to the Satanic religion.

But, I also have to be concerned with the truth.

So does anyone know if there is any actual connection in this case, or is it just speculation at this point?

The media regularly inserts random statements about people's personal lives into stories like this. Why do we need to know that so-and-so who just committed such-and-such crime worked at the burger joint on the corner and went to a Methodist church? We don't, really, but the media includes those details with surprising regularity.

heh Not CBS news are terrorists, or AP news are Terrorists.when they both told the same story. quit lying to yourself and to us

Why would i seperately suggest that that CBS or AP are terrorists if my blanket disclaimer already did it? "TERRORISTS ...as are many, if not most, media outlets.". I needn't repeat myself for your sake.

Yes they all tell the same story with very little difference. I have actaully never said otherwise - although you seem to think i have. I again bring attention to my disclaimer that accused ALL media outlets of sharing this despicable trait: "TERRORISTS ...as are many, if not most, media outlets.".

Earlier you were accusing me of Defending the Left-Wing media. Your proof is "because i didn't mention any other (Left-Wing) media outlets". But i did, i said (to summarise) that "ALL media outlets are terrorists". This would include Left and Right, would it not?
Your assertion in this thread that i am Defending the Left-Wing media is baseless.
If i said i love Top Wop... and then added that "actualy i love ALL of you guys", would you accuse me of NOT loving you because i didn't single you out? I didn't single out a lot of ppl, they are all covered by the blanket statement.

CUDA wrote:read your own words Roid, you try to Demonise FOX news because of the way they wrote a story, but when you post it you post blipverts of it trying to portray it in the worse light possible.

No i simply quoted every mention of Satanism. Read the article yourself and quote only the mentions of Satanism & you will quote the same text as i did. If you think i left something important out then tell me what.

CUDA wrote:I have posted link to other news agencies that have said the same thing in thier articles but you chose to lambast FOX.

You posted these links AFTER i was already finished lambasting FOX (and all other media outlets). I suppose after this i could have dedicated some posts to further lambasting CBS/AP (after i had already lambasted FOX (and all other media outlets)), but why would i repeat myself? i had already said: "TERRORISTS ...as are many, if not most, media outlets.".

CUDA wrote:this thread as you are now trying to make it was not about the Satanists. it was about your distain for FOX news be man enough to admit it

This thread was about:
(1) Satanists, ("The common misconception of Satanist cults" -roid)
(2) my distain for FOX, ("Everyone knows i'm not a fan of News Corp and it's subsidiaries (ie: FOX)" -roid)
(3) my distain for all major media outlets, ("TERRORISTS...as are many, if not most, media outlets." -roid)

And as for me not being man enough to admit it my distain for FOX? Well i just quoted myself admitting it didn't i? I have never made any secret about it, and i'll quote it again:

roid wrote:Everyone knows i'm not a fan of News Corp and it's subsidiaries (ie: FOX), but i'm neither a fan of any of the big 6. So will you stop implying that i LIKE any of the major media outlets, you have nothing to back that up.

CUDA wrote:First off its not the presses job to link the two its law enforcements. obviously someone in law enforecment told this to them, as I have already posted several other news agencies reported a possible link between the two. FOX did not make this up.

I'm not certain what you are saying in the 1st sentance (i think there are some typos) but the 2nd sentance is a good point which you have not brought out before.
I can see how perhaps if law enforcement told these seemingly unrelated points to FOX, then FOX might print them even though at the time they do not seem relevant - because they have faith that they will be relevant (otherwise why would the cop have told them, right?). Still, i would not have personally had that faith. I would have asked the Cop for clarification as to why the kid's interest in satanism is pertanent information. That one CBS article (outof the 4 total articles in this thread) is the only article that mentioned the "symbol carved into the victim's back" - which is the only relevance of the kid's interest in satanism.

CUDA wrote:now if you had really meant to make this a post about Satanists Possibly killing this woman then there would have been no need for the comment

Fox-Watchin' fundies

now would there

It is possible for me to make multiple points in one post.
My "Fox-Watchin' fundies" comment was indicating that i believe FOX's conservative christian slant (which makes it more likely to be watched and enjoyed by fundamentalist Christians) makes it more prone to anti-Satanism. Satanism is a valid and legal religion, but it is subjected to unwarranted persecution because of urban myths that there are widespread groups of Satanists going around killing people secretly. Most people don't have a clue what Satanism is all about. With the pro-Christian bias in america, many non-Christian religions are the subject of their fear, hatred and persecution. Urban myths surrounding Satanism and people's readiness to believe them in the face of evidence that says otherwise* are an indication of this.

*(this is of course up for debate)

CUDA wrote:I do kinda like how your fishing expidition hooked Ferno tho, but just like in the last FOX news thread
he reads your distorted article ( hrm kinda like you accuse FOX of doing ) then posts his reaction to it. and leaves never to return. Mr Fuel meet Mr Fire

i should hardly need to tell you that, like myself, Ferno does not think that FOX is the only non-trustworthy news outlet.



ps: stop with the insults x2.

ROID YOUR A LEFTWING NUTJOB

...as are many, if not most, posters here.







ok I made my disclaimer you shouldn't be offended. I hope you get my point it was not meant to be a personal attack

Roid wrote:Earlier you were accusing me of Defending the Left-Wing media. Your proof is "because i didn't mention any other (Left-Wing) media outlets".

My mistake I shouldn't have said it in those terms, it was probably a carry over from the last FOX news thread.

Roid wrote:You posted these links AFTER i was already finished lambasting FOX (and all other media outlets). I suppose after this i could have dedicated some posts to further lambasting CBS/AP (after i had already lambasted FOX (and all other media outlets)), but why would i repeat myself? i had already said: "TERRORISTS ...as are many, if not most, media outlets.".

you didnt clairify the "other media outlets" until 6 posts after the fact. it is clear what your intent was and your clarification appears to be a backtrack, Plus why did you say

FOX NEWS ARE TERRORISTS

you could have just as easily said NEWS MEDIA ARE TERRORISTS, it would have givin a more objective look to your thread.
The "Other media outlets" was in response to the 3 previous posts by Will and Ferno

Roid wrote:This thread was about:
(1) Satanists, ("The common misconception of Satanist cults" -roid)
(2) my distain for FOX, ("Everyone knows i'm not a fan of News Corp and it's subsidiaries (ie: FOX)" -roid)
(3) my distain for all major media outlets, ("TERRORISTS...as are many, if not most, media outlets." -roid)

if that was the case you sure have a poor way of presenting it when your first 2 printed lines are

1st line written by Roid wrote:don't you just love storys like these.

2nd line written by Roid wrote:look out Fox-Watchin' fundies, the Satanists are gonna get ya!

it is clear that your story wasnt about the "Satanists" it was about
[quote="3rd line written by Roid""]Honestly, in today's day and age why would anyone be printing this crap anymore[/quote] maybe your an Expert in the Occult I dont know, maybe they dont have this problem down under, dont know that either, but in the U.S. they do exsist and there is a problem with them, how ever small it might appear to some they do exsist

ROID YOUR A LEFTWING NUTJOB

...as are many, if not most, posters here.

Wow, talk about lost in translation. Really, really lost. I bet Roid finds this as funny as I do. You'll do anything to defend your government propaganda eh?

Cuda, I was going to respond to what you say, but then i realized you tried the character assasination tactic.


Can you give me one good reason to even respond to what you said after the amount of attacks you used here?

Testiculese wrote:

ROID YOUR A LEFTWING NUTJOB

...as are many, if not most, posters here.

Wow, talk about lost in translation. Really, really lost. I bet Roid finds this as funny as I do. You'll do anything to defend your government propaganda eh?

nothing lost in translation it is exactly what Roid did to FOX news, and heh My "disclaimer" says such. Obviously my point went right on by you, either that or you stopped reading after those 2 lines. as for Government Propaganda show me where there is any sign of Government propaganda in this story

Ferno wrote:Cuda, I was going to respond to what you say, but then i realized you tried the character assasination tactic.


Can you give me one good reason to even respond to what you said after the amount of attacks you used here?

if you have something to say then say it I shouldnt have to give you a reason. if you can defend your position then defend it. I find it remarkable the lengths some ppl will goto to bash a certain "Government Propaganda" news agency TOTALLY ignoring any facts that have been presented.

Ferno wrote:lol. another fox news shockstory. not suprised.

it seems to me that you jumped to conclusions either that or you intentionally took a jab at FOX news, it is QUITE clear that FOX was not the only news agency to report the story in this manner. so to single it out as "another fox news shockstory" is Naieve. if you want to respond please do so. but as in the last FOX news thread the media bias is obvious, but to ignore it is shameful and to single out one single media outlet to slam shows a clear bias on the part of several here

I've taken the liberty of collecting all of the 3 claims that seem to REFUTE my claim of "Violent Satanistic Cults do not exist", here:

Top Wop wrote:Roid, you are an idiot. Come out here to where I live and ask if Satanic cults are still around and wether or not they had an influence in suicides/murders.

...

Roid, I dont mean to make a personal attack on you, but saying that Satanic cults do not exist is quite idiotic. Mayby there is nothing going on down there in Australia land, but in my particular area in Illinois cults were a problem in the suburban communities 10 years ago and before. You could read about them in the newspapers. Now things have quieted down. If you are so interested then do the research for yourself because I only stop by the forums to talk a few points and move on. Im not going to put down the time to do something along the lines of proving if the sky is blue and not pink (unless you are blind).

Duper wrote:A number of years ago, I worked with a guy that was moved by the FBI when he stumble across a group of Satanists that had Masons and several judges involved in a child porn ring. Horrible "porn". mutilation while raping little kids.. that kinda thing. He would have been dead except that an undercover FBI dude said he would "off him" and took him to the hospital after he was given a drug.

This guy was the kind that was not shaken by much and was very care free. He had been missing from work for a week and when he returned, he was really REALLY freeked out. Always looking out windows and was afraid to go anywhere.

Now, I'm not raggin on Masons .. don't go off on that. But in my home town there was a coven that was very active and not in charity events.

Foil wrote:I don't agree with his assessment that malicious Satanism is not an actual threat anymore
...
BTW, I am a Christian, and I don't believe for a second that Satanism is a dead system, or that it's harmless - I know of some specific crimes (mostly ritual cruelty to animals, along with some more serious things) linked to the Satanic religion.

But, I also have to be concerned with the truth.

CUDA wrote:

roid wrote:Honestly, in today's day and age why would anyone be printing this crap anymore

maybe your an Expert in the Occult I dont know, maybe they dont have this problem down under, dont know that either, but in the U.S. they do exsist and there is a problem with them, how ever small it might appear to some they do exsist

From what i've been reading, the nature of storys of Satanistic Ritual Abuse or Killings is that the storys do not hold up to proper scrutiny.

Regarding Top Wop's story i did a google search on Illinois Satanic Cults. As i'm unfamilure with specifics.
Look what comes up. It's all debunking.
I would go as far to suggest that Top Wop (from as much as you've given me to go on), i think you have been the victim of Urban Myths. What evidence have you actually yourself seen?
Newspapers are not a good source to trust when one is talking about Urban Myths, as newspapers are caught out quite often. For instance i could show you quite some many news articles warning people that "mobile phones have caused yet another gas station fire", which we all now know to be false.

Duper's claim too involves claims of Satanic Ritual Abuse.
Google search on Satanic Ritual Abuse to see just how common debunking of this urban myth is. I would suggest that Duper... your friend was mentally ill. Do you know of anything that could be used to prove his story?
Having a coven in your neighbourhood, while perhaps the target of children's storys, is as much a cause of panic as any other harmless church. I'm not certain Satanists actually have covens, which seems more a Pagan thing.

Foil what you describe about ritual cruelty to animals seems like more of a troubled teen thing. A google search on Gothic Satanism should set your mind at ease (or quicken it's pace... i'm unsure how you'll react to the information)

Like I said before: I refuse to debate with someone who fights like a three year old.

Ferno wrote:Like I said before: I refuse to debate with someone who fights like a three year old.