DescentBB

....all of us as a family

I don’t really know where to start with this post so I’ll just be direct about it as I am known for.

As many of you have noticed I’m sure, there have been a lot of changes on this board lately. The current managament has been forcing it's morals upon us whether we like it or not. Yes I am talking about Koolbear. Something his closed minded approach clearly doesn’t consider is that this community, in his many years of inactivity, has done quite well. Not only that, but it has matured much further then he is willing to allow.

Koolbear has leveraged his new take over to a place where people of this community send him money for something that was always free. He wants to force us to live by HIS moral standards, not the standards that have developed naturally over the years in his absence, and in the process has managed to alienate many long standing members to the point of disgust and ultimately quitting!

The most recent fiasco was Koolbear's censoring of a post where a DBB member used the words "intense sex". The commotion that followed disgusted the member to the point that he will no longer come to this board. Koolbear claimed he edited the post because it was innapropriate in the context of the rest of the thread. A lot of mods argued that Koolbear broke policy by doing this and fought for our right to speak freely here according to the standards that we've naturally adopted over the years. More than one of the mods tried to explain to Koolbear that the member in question had done nothing wrong and that his post was completely within the guidelines, and that our community has matured. Some suggested that if Koolbear wanted to change these policies, he should do it officially and give people the opportunity to "know the rules" before going in and butchering people's posts. He would hear nothing of it. A quote from the private VIP forum illustrates his disposition on the topic:

Koolbear wrote:I'm sorry but I'm at my wits end. Do I give a damn if the DBB lose a smart ***, do I give a damn if the DBB looses all the smart asses and is left with Cap and me? NO I DON'T.

There's the door, go start your own BB and let people do as they have here for the last few years on your site.

I'm not going to apologize anymore, people don't like it I'll show them to door.

Going forward The NHB was created for the smart asses, they will have to be content with that. The E&C is fine I agree the users there do well, rarely will they ever carry any of thier discussions out side of that forum.

This post prompted one of our most well respected and longstanding moderators to step down claiming that he couldn't work with Koolbear. Xciter, Topher and the majority of the active mods continued to try to talk sense into Koolbear, but were met with resistance.

Over the years, many of us have made offers to host or take care of this bulletin board, myself included. Now, with Koolbear's encouragement, we have decided to hit the door and continue the DescentBB elsewhere. You as an individual will never be shamed into paying a dime for something that has always been free for you to enjoy. No grand standing of those that have by putting them on a pedestal. Quite benevolently, it’s a continuation of where we were as a community.

What does this mean? I truly think that if this community is to survive it needs to be given the chance to do so. Not by chopping off limbs and making it grow sideways to some single vision polar opposite it’s not used to. You should expect the new to be a bit more casual than here. There is too much “moderation” happening here. Also, the NHB will be truly No Holds Barred! As we have matured as a community, the things we talk about have matured along with us. We have all done a lot of growing up and I think many of us would like to discuss topics
as adults. It doesn't mean we are smartasses, as Koolbear stated. This is something that will be given the chance to see.

My involvement in the new site is that I am the domain owner. The site was created by a group of DBB moderators and members that thought it had to happen. Punisher, JBomb, Xciter and myself are the admins of this new board.

We're going to need some moderators. If you'd like a moderatorship, please contact one of the board admins. Out of respect for their hard work and dedication over the years, we'll be giving current moderators of dbb.net special consideration.

So, without further ado, I'd like to welcome each and every one of you to our new site! Try it out for yourself and see if the new shoes fit. No pressure.

http://www.descentbb.com

A continuation of our family


Stresstest
DBB member since 97’

without trying to stir up trouble i want to say something, the people who ignore me will ignore me anyway...

I whole heartedly disagree with KB's choice of editing TheCope's post, I think it was more than a little uneccessary, and since IIRC you have you admit you are at least 13 years old just to request to be a part of this, it was wrong to assume anything on behalf of the original poster (having a PG-13 NHB on what has to be a PG-13 site to begin with...). I beleive my initial reponse was that I wouldn't want my 6 year old daughter reading it, but it didn't matter. I wouldn't let her hear 'til she is older anyway.

The only thing I want to say about your post is that KB didn't force anyone to donate to the DBB, I was a strong voice in wanting us to move somewhere that wasn't slow, and worked well. Many of us did, and a few of us donated to help out. Is that different than you paying for the domain you are paying for now (if you are paying, I obviously don't know the details). It isn't required that anyone pay, and I don't think it hurts the community.

I stumbled on descentbb.com when trying to get logged in here (mistyped the url) earlier this week sometime and got a great laugh because of the childishness of the posts, as if it were some great slap to the face of koolbear. (and a jab at me too, I guess I must be famous for my postcount++ theCope:\":)
Can i be the descentbb.com's fyrephlie? POST POST POST POST\")

I don't know what goes on behind the closed doors where you mods and admins are fighting, but this seems so very silly.

It reminds me of when we were kids and we built a fort somewhere, and we got mad at one of the kids, and some of us built another fort and wouldn't let them in. (i wonder if i'm welcome in your fort... hmm).

With THAT said, good luck, I suppose it's a matter of taste, and I hope you have better luck with that board... I will just warn that retaliation and retribution do not always work well... I'm sorry that things couldn't be resolved better on this end.

fyrephlie wrote: I stumbled on descentbb.com when trying to get logged in here (mistyped the url) earlier this week sometime and got a great laugh because of the childishness of the posts, as if it were some great slap to the face of koolbear. (and a jab at me too, I guess I must be famous for my postcount++ theCope:":)

He has a right to be angry and frustrated. I sort of dont blame him for blowing off steam.

fyrephlie wrote: Can i be the descentbb.com's fyrephlie? POST POST POST POST")

LOL. dude you do post a lot. Have a laugh about it.

fyrephlie wrote: (i wonder if i'm welcome in your fort... hmm).

Of course! I think Stress made that pretty clear in his post. This is about inclusion more than anything.

fyrephlie wrote: With THAT said, good luck, I suppose it's a matter of taste, and I hope you have better luck with that board... I will just warn that retaliation and retribution do not always work well... I'm sorry that things couldn't be resolved better on this end.

Thanks for the kind words. No retaliation or retribution is intended. Our hopes are that the two boards with coexist. All we want is a place to post where the moderation philosophy caters to a more mature membership.

DescentBB - Registration Agreement Terms wrote: DescentBB - Registration Agreement Terms

While the administrators and moderators of this forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. Therefore you acknowledge that all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these people) and hence will not be held liable.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned (and your service provider being informed). The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that the webmaster, administrator and moderators of this forum have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should they see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered above being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent the webmaster, administrator and moderators cannot be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.

This forum system uses cookies to store information on your local computer. These cookies do not contain any of the information you have entered above; they serve only to improve your viewing pleasure. The e-mail address is used only for confirming your registration details and password (and for sending new passwords should you forget your current one).

By clicking Register below you agree to be bound by these conditions.


I Agree to these terms and am over or exactly 13 years of age

I Agree to these terms and am under 13 years of age

I do not agree to these terms

I bolded the important part... not agreeing with KB, but the rules are set out when you sign up.

Pun wrote:He has a right to be angry and frustrated. I sort of dont blame him for blowing off steam.

It wasn't just him I was talking about, and I included TheCope's comment about me in fun...

Pun wrote:LOL. dude you do post a lot. Have a laugh about it.

Yes, yes I do. And yes, yes I did, especially at being singled out by TheCope!! WooT W000T!!

I can understand being frustrated, if my post had been edited in such a manner, and for such a silly reason, I would be too. And with the invitation KB gave to everyone to make their own board, I can see why you would just do that. I just wanted to say that it seems a little 'childish', but like I said, I am not privy to the big 'goings on' behind the scenes of the DBB, so I don't know how bad it is. I just wanted to state my opinions, and the only thing I can disagree with is the 'donation' thing, cause the DBB is still free, and now on a 'better' server (if KB and RC ever get it running 'perfectly' ). My only thing is that the community (at least some of us) were crying out for a better server than what we were moved too, but instead of you (STRESSTEST for example) stepping up, but left it to us to donate... I remember seeing some offers, and of course I don't know why they were left on the wayside, but they were, and here we are. It's funny, but the only thing I really don't like is the comment about KB 'making us' pay for the DBB, it's a little misleading.

Anyway... I am done talking now. Can I register over there as ++fyrephlie++???

fyrephlie wrote:Can I register over there as ++fyrephlie++???

I don't see any reason you shouldn't pick such a wonderfully appropriate handle!

EDIT: I spoke too quickly.

edit: me too. <3 Tom.

I've said what needed said. Thanks for talking to me.

Good luck with your new home.

Well good luck guys. Sorry to see you go in this manner.

Wow, this is a first..

DUN DUN DUUUUUUUN!



omg the descent community has a place where the plastic is off the sofa! weeeeee

What the hell? I guess I have been in the desert too long.......

omg the descent community has a place where the plastic is off the sofa! weeeeee

LOL

Wow. I guess \"lets divide the small descent community\" even more is all I can say.

I think what is really boils down to merlin is that its completely unacceptable as adults to have a few select people in control telling us how to talk to each other at this stage in the D3 game...

We all basically know each other if not from just the passage of all these years that its been...We all know that alot of us have kids...not one of us is really a \"bad\" person that we know of...so..its like...can't i just say whatever?...not here...but over there i can

no offence to adam, but am i the only guy who would turn around and go \"what a fud\" for censoring \"intense sex\". the whole thing is retarded.

you all moaned at KB to come back all these years, now he's giving you his time and you all leave.

got nothing against anyone - don't agree with KB. if anything im on cops' side, but it seems kinda silly. and tbh, i like having the ability to give a donation. there is so much stupid retard censorship ★■◆● on the planet you would think we coulda laughed this off. <shrug>

Just to be clear..the .com is the end result to a culmination of one thing after another over here and was in development for almost 2 months before the whole Cope thing went down...

This was not triggered by Adams situation...But you can go ahead and add that one to the long list of reasons the .com came about..

If you are not going to explain yourself why are you posting here like we know whats going on - alot of us don't - and to be frank, handling it in this manner makes you look rather poorly. I failed mind reading 101

Well...ill stop posting here then because i dont want a flame war but if it takes a mind reader to see that people here get censored and over modded then perhaps you should retake the course...

I followed the donation topic, and there can be no fair accusation that KB forced it upon anyone, he simply pointed out that it was one option if we wanted to improve the hosting, people jumped on it.

As for the censoring, despite my conservative stance about sex, I don't think there is anything WRONG with sex, quite the contrary. So, in the context, I probably wouldn't have objected to the phrase that was censored. But I have no problem understanding that others might. If KoolBear wanted the term rephrased, I hardly see that as a major burden.

He provided us with a place to be, at his own expense for years, I don't have any problem cooperating with a few rules that don't actually get in my way. I wish the folks going to descent.com good luck, but I'll be sticking around here. Considering that doing my part to HELP descent.com attract new members.

Kilarin

About the censorship part of this...

You all know that Im very anti-censorship given the little flame war I started about audio taunts. I wont mention names again so as not to hurt feelings.

But in this case I must side with koolbear's actions.

It does indeed say in the policy that the administrators have the right to delete or edit what they feel has stepped over the line.

There is indeed a No Holds Bared forum. That should indeed be used if one doesnt want thier language limited. In the other forums, one should expect a tight reign on the language.

I think its the old door and on the way out thing



P.S. what an original site. nothing like it on the web

P.S.S. you do realize this whole thing is childish. its the old I 'm not getting my way so I'm taking my ball and going home thing.

Oh and let me add one more thing.

If this were the corporate world, those responsible for setting up a www.descenbb.COM would get their collective keysters sued off for dilution of brand.

Nosferatu wrote:Oh and let me add one more thing.

If this were the corporate world, those responsible for setting up a www.descenbb.COM would get their collective keysters sued off for dilution of brand.

not to mention plagerism. just lucky form them that this site isnt a money maker for KB

CUDA wrote:this site isnt a money maker for KB

Says who?

CUDA wrote:

Nosferatu wrote:Oh and let me add one more thing.

If this were the corporate world, those responsible for setting up a www.descenbb.COM would get their collective keysters sued off for dilution of brand.

not to mention plagerism. just lucky form them that this site isnt a money maker for KB

Um actually now that the site is donation driven, koolbear and crew might actually have a case. I would not blame them in the slightest if they pursued it.

EDITED for the spelling natzy.

spellcheck:

"driven"
"crew" (where's Nikki Sixx?)
"pursued" (I actually had to think about this one)

/spellcheck

edit:
I better quote you for safety's sake

Nosferatu wrote: EDITED for the spelling natzy.

spellcheck:

"Nazi"

/spellcheck

jeeze, stop the flames already. If you don't like the new ideas, you dont have to post on the other board. the new site is not a replacement, it's an alternative!

Nosferatu, keep a level head, my man. Flaming is not the answer.

Well I don't think my donation was forced. I gave simply for a speedier response.

Secondly Cops is the \"Duh\" for getting so upset.

Thirdly KB should understand that on public T.V. and radio certain words like \"A$$\" and \"Sex\" are permissable word to be used. Cops was not going into a pornographic rank on what he was doing, simply a short phrase that we all understood to be something Copsy was really only daydreaming about ( )

Fourthly I think KB may have come to understand a bit more that his edit was unneccessary and I suspect he now can be more appreciative of the fallout.

So as Sickone was want to say, \"O.K. group hug. Hey! Whose hand is my pocket!\"

I spoke with KB and RC about donations and a new server and I can tell you that KB was in fact very reluctant about taking money in any form. Thw only reason that we got here is that the community wanted a new server and was willing to donate. I for one do not mind donating to something that I use and obviously many other people feel the same way.

As for the editing of the post. I guess it depends on your stance on what is allowed on a privately owned forum. Free speech may be a right but not in all cases. As this is a privately owned and operated forum supported by donations, I see absolutley no violation of anyones rights.

As for the appropriateness of the edit, well, that would be opinion and nothing more. I personally thought \"intense sex\" was perfectly fine and didn't cause me one bit of concern. I wouldn't be concerned if my kids read that, my mom read that, or anyone else for that matter.

However, I wouldn't be pissed off so bad as to leave the board over the edit either. I've had posts edited before and some for not even what I considered a good reason, but that is that. Who cares? At the end of the day, TheCopes edit and mine didn't change the meaning behind the post and quite frankly, I doubt anyone but TheCope would have noticed the difference. I didn't until I read another thread about the edit.

I do think the moderatorship at present is a bit heavy handed, but it is not over the top. I think with time, KB and other mods will fall back into the less is more attitude. That being said, I commend KB for his efforts to keep the DBB going and RC for providing a server and his time to getting it up and running.

And if we really are family, then how about you all stay and we try to work out our differences?

I think the major problem we have been having is KB came here and tried to fix some things that were not broken. This community is not the same community it was several years ago, evolution (please, it's just an expression, keep the ID debate out of this one ) can be a pain but it can not be stopped or reversed. The DBB is not a \"kid friendly\" forum and has not been for years, if you want a descent related forum for your child, I highly recommend the Planet Descent Forums, some people from the DBB are there but the age group and feeling of the forum in general is a lot more brat friendly then this forum has been in a very long time.

IMO, the whole \"privately owned forum\" concept doesn't hold water in reality. Anyone that thinks KB can do whatever he pleases with the forum just because he legally owns it is only legally correct. Any lawyer will tell you that the owners of a private BB can do whatever they want with the forum legally. What this means is you can't sue KB over what he does to the Descent BB. That is what it means, legal protection, nothing more.

What KB can not do on his private BB is control the market forces that make the BB work in the first place. Look at the banner at the top of the screen; right under \"Descent BB\" it says \"The Community Forums\". This forum like any forum depends entirely on the market forces for survival. Without the people who post here there is no Descent BB. This community does not need an administrator that stomps around knocking pictures off the walls. Yes Cops is a smart a$$, so are more then half of the other members of this BB, myself included, a big bunch of easy to get along with smart a$$e$. Like it or not these people make the community and make the forum, driving them all out is not an option.

Thats my $0.02. KTHXBYE.

Nosferatu wrote:Oh and let me add one more thing.

If this were the corporate world, those responsible for setting up a www.descenbb.COM would get their collective keysters sued off for dilution of brand.

can ya explain that one? seems to me that the bb.net do NOT own descent, the term BB or the copyright on blue and black. while yer at it sue planetdescentBB the German Descent BB the server ops BB......... I could continue but I think you get my point.

There are many descent BBs out there. http://www.descentbb.com/ is just one where adults can speak their minds without having to clear it with 1 person first.

Post here or there or BOTH its up to you, just quit the lame flaming.

Wow, just wow. I mean, I used to respect you Stress, but now I see you're just an assinine little child who throws a tantrum if he doesn't get his way.
My god, he edited one word, he apologized for his methods, and he's not forcing you to goto friggin church! WTF. You're nothing but a god dam.n whiny little bi.tch.

I mean, I could forgive you trying to pick a fight with KB in the VIP room (which was childish), but man, this is just going too far. I'm not going to preach about right and wrong to you, but shi.t, this is wrong - this is so wrong, your dead great-great-grandma should come back alive just to slap you.

Just what this itty-bitty community needed, another split, way to go Stress, you're the champ. Yea.

...

This is pathetic. It's a lot of other things that I can't define right now, but pathetic is definitely in there.

YOU GUYS!....this is about your \"friends\" wanting to chat uncensored...Whats pathetic is wishing peoples dead grammas would come alive and slap you..(heh btw)

Stop caring where your \"friends\" chat and be glad there is another D3 Forum...jeeez

It's just retarded in my opinion to copy the DBB so you can say naughty words. Seems a huge waste of time/energy/effort etc. and really only serves to further divide the community.

*JBOMB* wrote:YOU GUYS!....this is about your "friends" wanting to chat uncensored...Whats pathetic is wishing peoples dead grammas would come alive and slap you..(heh btw)

Stop caring where your "friends" chat and be glad there is another D3 Forum...jeeez

no its not. its about 1 person who didnt read the forum rules, if he wanted uncensored chat thats what the NHB forum if for.

You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-oriented or any other material that may violate any applicable laws

regardless if you agree with KB or not, it was in his rights to edit the post.
so lets get down to brass tacks. a couple of people didnt like it fine, take it to a PM and hash it out there.
but no what do they do, they throw a temper tantrum that would make any 3 year old proud and hash it out through the whole community.
then when that doesnt satisfy them they create a "NEW" forum just so they can b!tch about this forum. and to make matters worse they come here and AGAIN act like a spoiled little brat and say, I'll show them I'll go on their forum and post about my own forum and try to get people to take sides. well guess what you've done what you set out for we've taken sides. real mature. so have fun in your "uncensored" forum. and dont let the door hit you on the a$$ on the way out YOU WILL NOT BE MISSED

whos throwing the temper tantrum now?

its about 1 person who didnt read the forum rules

Hardly...you think that this is about one incident? Ne..I stopped being active here over a year ago for the very same censorship that alot of other peeps are now fed up with...

You talk about forum rules like they matter without happy posters who like the rules...

When your friend says something to you that you may not agree with do you then turn to him and talk about \"the friend rules\"?...

Pugwash wrote:whos throwing the temper tantrum now?

me

but I dont plan to start my own forum just so I can say pee pee and poo poo with out being sensored