DescentBB

EDIT by Lothar: This thread has been split from the \"word censor\" thread. Just FYI...

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I dunno... this is all too much drama for me. I feel like I'm in a soap opera or something. We have people quitting left and right... can't we all deal with things in a civilized way and reach some sort of a happy medium without all stomping out the door? I guess what I'm saying is this: if the user selectable filter will bring a stop to the division, I'm all about it.

Sorry to sound bitter, but this whole thread as well as the whole Cops thing is getting out of hand. We are making too much of a deal of it... leave it alone. We already lost Cops...

EDIT: I just saw that Pun is leaving. WTF??? Let's drop this whole dumbass deal and stop fueling the fire. This is breaking up the DBB.

2ND EDIT: Now I just saw that XCiter is leaving. WTF LETS STOP THE ★■◆● THIS IS PISSING ME OFF WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE DBB

Money! wrote:Sorry to sound bitter, but this whole thread as well as the whole Cops thing is getting out of hand. We are making too much of a deal of it... leave it alone. We already lost Cops...

EDIT: I just saw that Pun is leaving. WTF??? Let's drop this whole dumbass deal and stop fueling the fire. This is breaking up the DBB.

2ND EDIT: Now I just saw that XCiter is leaving. WTF LETS STOP THE ***** THIS IS PISSING ME OFF WHAT IS HAPPENING TO THE DBB

Those people who left, left because they want to use vulgarity out in the open and not just in the NHB. Thats not good enough for them. They want freedom of speech without limits and zero censorship.

I belong to a science forum which has hundreds more members than this dbb or the other one will ever have, and they all talk civil because they are adults. I've seen heated arguments there about religion, pedophiles, politics, science, you name it.... and the words you just describe very rarely enter into the conversation.

I went to a town meeting once with my dad where there was yelling, and people really ticked off, yet not one person used anything vulgar.

The bottom line for me is I don't wish any more censorship than we have already. Just enough to keep the good people here and allow the "non-adults" to go to the other dbb and live a happy childish life.

Your not being bitter, Your just concerned like I am. A community is built on loyalty which the other team was willing to destroy. I'm with Koolbear. He made a misjudgement to some, and apologized, but the little kids got mad and left.

Bettina

Bet51987 wrote:The bottom line for me is I don't wish any more censorship than we have already. Just enough to keep the good people here and allow the "non-adults" to go to the other dbb and live a happy childish life.

Your not being bitter, Your just concerned like I am. A community is built on loyalty which the other team was willing to destroy. I'm with Koolbear. He made a misjudgement to some, and apologized, but the little kids got mad and left.

Bettina

Hey.
It was a needed break for "the community" an abused term on the internet, I consider my actual neighborhood my community. Some people like to type what is on their mind. It doesn't make it childish if it doesn't conform to someone’s sensibilities, it is what it is.

Why would someone want to debate with people over this stuff when you can just start another board? Who has time to debate things like this? It is meaningless to everyone save the people who want to control you.

The twin dbb ain't gonna hurt a fly... the only negativity I see comes from people round here. You can have choices in this life and not be a child. Koolbear even eluded to this concept in his post.

I wish you peace, happiness, and the pursuit of not saying what's on your mind.

-Adam

TheCope wrote:The twin dbb ain't gonna hurt a fly...

I agree. Nothing wrong with it, and no reason not to have it.

the only negativity I see comes from people round here.

I suggest you read more of Stresstest's writings over there.

It wasn't the fact that Stress started a \"twin\" DBB that sparked that fight. It was what he posted, and the manner in which he posted it. If it was nothing more than \"Hi, I've started a new board for you folks to enjoy. Come check it out!\" then there wouldn't have been any blowup. We wouldn't have members torn between going over there, or staying here. Like it or not, that thread effectively split the community up with a swift stroke. Now we could continue to bicker over it, or we could try to find a way to resolve our differences. I don't see it happening any other way. The ball is in your court. What's your next move?

That being said, this should be split out of this thread and into a seperate one before this thread gets derailed any further.

I voted No on the censor dealy. Will that help get this thread back on topic.

Bet51987 wrote: Just enough to keep the good people here and allow the "non-adults" to go to the other dbb and live a happy childish life.
Bettina

I hope you see the problem with this statement Bett.
albiet, some of the wording on the announcement of the new BB could have been better,I fully agree on it's inception.
Calling people who wish to have more freedom in their postings "non adults" and "childish" is definately putting those labels right back on yourself.
It isn't our job to judge people who have different views than our own.
If you don't want to participate in a truly open discussion board thats your business and noone should think any different of you for it.same thing goes for those who wish to have that option,they shouldn't be judged for their descision.
I, like many people who enjoy the new BB,Will also visit this BB on a daily basis because there is a place in the descent community for both.
I believe we should continue to embrace the great diversity that is the Descent community.if that means visiting 2 BB's so be it.
This argueing and name calling is just ridiculous.
Just my usual 1/3 cent. -Hat

*EDIT* to stay on topic I vote no for the personal censorship option.

Hattrick wrote:

Bet51987 wrote: Just enough to keep the good people here and allow the "non-adults" to go to the other dbb and live a happy childish life.
Bettina

I hope you see the problem with this statement Bett.
albiet, some of the wording on the announcement of the new BB could have been better,I fully agree on it's inception.
Calling people who wish to have more freedom in their postings "non adults" and "childish" is definately putting those labels right back on yourself.
It isn't our job to judge people who have different views than our own.
If you don't want to participate in a truly open discussion board thats your business and noone should think any different of you for it.same thing goes for those who wish to have that option,they shouldn't be judged for their descision.
I, like many people who enjoy the new BB,Will also visit this BB on a daily basis because there is a place in the descent community for both.
I believe we should continue to embrace the great diversity that is the Descent community.if that means visiting 2 BB's so be it.
This argueing and name calling is just ridiculous.
Just my usual 1/3 cent. -Hat

*EDIT* to stay on topic I vote no for the personal censorship option.

This discussion is not going off topic since we've pretty much answered the poll.
Ok...I checked and rechecked my previous post, but I don't see a problem with my statement at all. I consider someone who leaves and starts a new bb just because they couldn't get along with the rules of this one....childish and immature. I would have felt much differently if the new bb had a different name and look instead of using the exact same one and format. A direct copy that had a motive. A "replacement" dbb with little rules.

What makes your comment invalid were the words "The way it should be" that was placed under the new dbb name. Think about that comment. What does it mean other than a few members who weren't getting their way here and wanted everyone to forever know that...a statement that you see everytime you enter. That statement smacked not of diversity which you imply, but more like a mutiny of little kids who run across the street and build another clubhouse....nothing short of it. I am by nature a realist and a loyalist. I keep close to my dad, friends, community, and my church. (Yes, even though I don't believe in god, I do believe in what the parish does.) My loyalty includes this dbb too.

The people who started the other dbb, failed the community, and the people who think the other dbb was a smart thing to do are dead wrong. I don't hate them.....I'm just upset. I'm just worried that this dbb will drift away, me along with it, because I don't intend to go to the other with what I've already seen.

Under the heading of this dbb are the words.."The community forums"....much different than "The way it should be" under the other.

Your friend
Bettina

well since you didn't look to see the thread taking votes on what the banner under the new BB should say, I'll take your comment in stride.

I for one agree with that remark.
Do I feel that this DBB is inferior? no I don't. I just do not agree with the way it's been moderated for quite some time waaaay before any of this with The Cope and KB.
I welcomed a new venue that was fresh and share Ideas that I do. Does that mean I agree with evrything that will be done there? prolly not.But thats the beauty of it. If I don't agree with what I'm reading at any site I can simply stop reading and move on OR I can engage in a discussion on why I don't nescsarily agree with that view.

I don't see anything childish about a new BB.they have not persisted in any type of campain to undermine this BB.Stess simply posted what he felt and explained his position the way he felt it needed to be said. In no way did he tell anyone here to leave this BB and go thre instead. he just gave an alternative to people who thought they would like one.
Yes people are filtering over there but they are not saying anything remotely bad about this BB.

If you have indeed gone over your post and NOT seen what is wrong with your statement well let me just put it this way.
Calling people who don't agree with you \"non adults\" and \"Childish\" is in fact conveying those attributes right back onto yourself.
I'm sorry if you can't see past that but thats the short and skinny of it.

since it appears our discussion is at an impass, I'll stop at this post in the intrest of good will.
Have a great afternoon!

*A bonus 1/3 cent from hattrick!

Hattrick wrote:well since you didn't look to see the thread taking votes on what the banner under the new BB should say, I'll take your comment in stride.

I for one agree with that remark.
Do I feel that this DBB is inferior? no I don't. I just do not agree with the way it's been moderated for quite some time waaaay before any of this with The Cope and KB.
I welcomed a new venue that was fresh and share Ideas that I do. Does that mean I agree with evrything that will be done there? prolly not.But thats the beauty of it. If I don't agree with what I'm reading at any site I can simply stop reading and move on OR I can engage in a discussion on why I don't nescsarily agree with that view.

I don't see anything childish about a new BB.they have not persisted in any type of campain to undermine this BB.Stess simply posted what he felt and explained his position the way he felt it needed to be said. In no way did he tell anyone here to leave this BB and go thre instead. he just gave an alternative to people who thought they would like one.
Yes people are filtering over there but they are not saying anything remotely bad about this BB.

If you have indeed gone over your post and NOT seen what is wrong with your statement well let me just put it this way.
Calling people who don't agree with you "non adults" and "Childish" is in fact conveying those attributes right back onto yourself.
I'm sorry if you can't see past that but thats the short and skinny of it.

since it appears our discussion is at an impass, I'll stop at this post in the intrest of good will.
Have a great afternoon!

*A bonus 1/3 cent from hattrick!

Hattrick, you and I will not reach a mutual conclusion on this, but your ok with me anyway...

Bettina

Bettina might be on the right track just using the wrong words 'immature' might work better in place of 'childish'. Stresstest has been burning to take over the DBB for a very long time now, he has never liked how the DBB is run no matter who the administration was. KoolBear might be a total rookie admin but I have some confidence that we will break him in with time. The incident with Cops is more like a cheap scandal that Stresstest is using to try and reshape the DBB in his preferred image.

If the DBB.com is just a place where you can 'speak your mind' why does it feature many of the same subject forums as the existing DBB? Is there something you are not allowed to say in the tech forum that is still relevant to the tech forum? The same for the marketplace and distributed computing, at what point have the moderators and admins in those forums been overly restrictive about what is being said in them? I see absolutely no reason why the DBB.com should try and look so much like DBB.net if it is supposed to be a site to complement this DBB like some have suggested.

The forums that I could see justified on DBB.com would be the multiplayer forum, the saloon, and ethics. Justified assuming in the multiplayer forum you can discuss cheaters and hackers by alias, you can post all the dirty jokes you want in the saloon, you can yap endlessly about how much the world sucks, god, bush and how much you would like to damn him to hell for all eternity in ethics using whatever language you prefer.

The existence of a NHB, Tech Forum, Marketplace, etc forums look to me like nothing but an imitation of this DBB in attempt to pull as many members as possible away from the original. Stresstest has wanted to control the DBB since forever, it was hopeless for the real one to be placed in his care, so we end up in this situation. You can say it is built to complement the existing DBB, but its form is all wrong for that. If it was really differently shaped from DBB.net I might have believed it.

I gotta say I'm with Krom and Bet. We encounter a little trouble over here, so we go and make a whole new DBB? What kind of commmunity is one that splits at the first sign of strife? Its total bs to think that making a new DBB will \"complement\" this one... people know it will break it apart. And \"The Way It Should Be\"?? What is that? That sets the whole tone for this whole ordeal... I can't understand people daring to say that.

[rant] This is total ★■◆●ing bs. I can't believe how pissed I am at some of the people around here. You call yourselfs a community, yet you aim to split it apart over nothing? HOW WEAK ARE YOU? HOW SAD, DESPICABLE, AND PITIFUL YOU ARE. YOU ARE WEAK MINDED, TEARING APART SUCH A RICH YET SMALL AND TIGHTLY KNIT GROUP OF PEOPLE... HAVEN'T YOU REALIZED THAT THIS COULD LEAD TO THE END OF DESCENT? THIS COMMUNITY IS FRAGILE ALREADY, AND NOBODY NEW IS COMING IN. YOU'D THINK AFTER ALL THESE YEARS YOU'D LEARN TO ROLL WITH THE PUNCHES; INSTEAD YOU SPLIT AT THE FIRST SIGN OF HARDSHIP...

i am irate

[/rant]

edit: I am the only one this mad? I'm getting even more angry realizing how much slower every single forum is moving. I feel like breaking apart.

Money! wrote:I'm getting even more angry realizing how much slower every single forum is moving.

Hasn't seemed slow to ME recently.

But really, I wish the .com guys luck. And I think the BEST chance the community has for healing, is simply to be nice to them.

Kilarin

Wow... just read a little over at the .com. People there are jumping on the bandwagon... they are twisting things to sounds like KoolBear was a forum Nazi. He edited one post, which started a huge deal, and now he's a forum Nazi? I even disagreed with his judgement on Cope's post, but I still remembered that he was a cool moderator and a nice guy in past. The people can't forgive him for one thing?

People over there are so happy with their new DBB... so excited, on the forefront of coolness, baggin on that horrible forum nazi old dbb because we got our new great one where you can say jackass! What pussies. You have no respect for the DBB that has been doing it for years.

That place is sickening... especially because there are alot people that were influential here but still part of the laity that are now moderators and such... they probably couldn't care less about anything except for the fact that they get to be powerful... and then they turn around and bag on KoolBear for \"abusing\" his power when they are in love with theirs.

Krom is spot on. This whole premise of \"trying something new\" is a facade. And copying the Folding forums too? Thats pretty low. So we are going to have 2 forums, with one in a .com when the team clearly says descentbb.net? If it was \"descent community\" it would be different but thats cheap. Form your own team at least.

Money: Thats exactly what it all is in the end. Power and control.

ENOUGH! Whats done is done. They'll either come back, or they won't. Bickering about it won't solve a damn thing, and would only give them a source of entertainment. Lets show some class and move on already.

Since when is power and control a bad thing? They don't like the way power and control are exercised over here (or, perhaps, who is exercising them), but they like some of the people. So, they want to hang with the same people but with different ones exercising power and control differently. That's fine with me.

If .com turns out to be a cool website, it'll survive. If it turns out to be a lame power-grab with no real community, it'll die. So why worry about it? Some people there are acting childish and petty; some people here are acting childish and petty. Some people there are cool; some people here are cool. I say we all chill out and let both sets of mods and both sets of users do their thing.

man this thread is so very derailed....

Was not this BB and after the fact based on the 3 games we love? The attendence in the mines does not reflect what the traffic on the boards are. Maybe we can live and let live and meet in the mines? I don't think its about splitting the community if we are still playing?


Maybe the posting community is split (I still feel most people will visit both) but should it not still be all about getting together and tossing some fusion frags or vauss? Thats what will lead to the death of this game if people don't play. We have known each other for a good bit now and if others want to wander away and do their own thing good on them!! If this board stays strong good on it!

It should be all about the game with the Cafe and Ethics etc etc a side note. If people wander away it is because they no longer have interest in the game not some BB spilt. People who care and know each other are going to post/lurk each board to keep abreast of LANS, events or what have you.

This should not be a competition between boards. The .com should be looked upon as an alternitive not some evil plot to spilt the community. People will gravitate to where they will and I hope both boards prosper but in the end it should be all about this great game that brought us together.

Think if Core gets big there will be a whole herd of us rolling in who have known each other for years. Are we a large dysfunctional family? Oh Yes!! In the end though someone starting a new board as an alternitive not competition should not split this community asunder.


Koolbear came back and did what he thought was right. Mistakes were made? Maybe... The thing is he cared enough about this place to try and keep it alive and did/does a great job doing it!!(I am not going into the actual finances or what have you. That is another example of trying to do whats best for the board Plus I have no clue what went on behind everything I just know KB tried to keep this place alive and on a good server)

I don't think it is a reflection of him. Other mods do things that people don't like. We are all human and I deify anyone to step up and do the bang up jobs the mods have done over the years. Most drama I have heard of was between mods not memebers. If your post was changed you had a PM telling you the reason why. People who are mad at the split think again of this.

The other board is just another place to hang. By all means post here and there and have fun. DO NOT forget our friendships we have forged here and in the mines and many lans over something that is an alternitive not some nefarious plot to kill the community we have all been a part of these many years. Celebrate change and if you like one place or the other be all about it. Just please don't think people are giving up loyalty or love of the game by posting on another forum.

*Disclaimer I tend to ramble when I have a few but it pains me to see people making it like those who post on the .com have some wierd plot.

ITS ABOUT THE GAME WE LOVE!!!!

/ramble off

fyrephlie wrote:man this thread is so very derailed....

And crashed. and burned.

Now, where can I put this...

E&C or Feedback...

E&C.

Lothar wrote:Since when is power and control a bad thing? They don't like the way power and control are exercised over here (or, perhaps, who is exercising them), but they like some of the people. So, they want to hang with the same people but with different ones exercising power and control differently. That's fine with me.

If .com turns out to be a cool website, it'll survive. If it turns out to be a lame power-grab with no real community, it'll die. So why worry about it? Some people there are acting childish and petty; some people here are acting childish and petty. Some people there are cool; some people here are cool. I say we all chill out and let both sets of mods and both sets of users do their thing.

Well Said!!!

Can we have an ignore Mobius radio button as well?

Ok everyone thanks for your input, but I have allowed this conversation to drift from it's purpose. I recommend that this conversation be split and moved it to the Feedback forum where it should be closed.

I understand that emotions are running high. You know I said this before - none of this is about anyone person or concept but an agglomeration of many issues and priorities. The DBB was founded and originally chartered to be \"The Community Forums\" and that concept has ebbed and flowed over time, this time the struggle crested.

But I really do think it's time that this thread should be closed. We haven't accomplished anything but widening the schism. This isn't good for our already dwindling player base, it's in all our interests to support any and all the Descent sites.

I have spoken with Punisher on the phone today, from our perspective views this will benefit all Descent'rs and isn't that really what's important?

We should ALL realize that walls between the bb's shouldn't be allowed to exist by anyone on of us.

How the hell could anyone get pissed at this guy?

could i get some kind of royalty for being the first to dub it a schism? custom title? dibs on dbb.xxx?

it's in all our interests to support any and all the Descent sites.

There are only two Descent sites that I can ever be loyal to. Planet Descent and you......You are the DBB....and always will be.

Love
Bettina

LOL... that read disturbingly like a marriage proposal, Bet.

WHOA!....I'm a minor still and marriage is far away for me yet, and what would his wife think. Tsk Tsk. All I said was the truth.

Bettina

Bet51987 wrote:it's in all our interests to support any and all the Descent sites.

There are only two Descent sites that I can ever be loyal to. Planet Descent and you......You are the DBB....and always will be.

Love
Bettina

Kinda like your loyalty to Space Princess back in the day you might be wrong. Just because you have another view you might tone down the rhetoric and live and let live Ma'am

Couver_ wrote:

Bet51987 wrote:it's in all our interests to support any and all the Descent sites.

There are only two Descent sites that I can ever be loyal to. Planet Descent and you......You are the DBB....and always will be.

Love
Bettina

Kinda like your loyalty to Space Princess back in the day you might be wrong. Just because you have another view you might tone down the rhetoric and live and let live Ma'am

I'm not wrong about my loyalty to this dbb because I know why the copycat was started. I will never be a member there and that is a fact. We each have to make a choice where our flag flys...

And...as far as spaceprincess is concerned, there is still hope that someday she will return from the dark side to kill those who chose to kill us and lead her people to a new world.

Bettina

KoolBear wrote:I recommend that this conversation be split and moved it to the Feedback forum where it should be closed.

I'll put this in feedback, but I'm going to disagree with closing it, at least for the moment. I'd like to let it run its course a little bit longer. Yeah, we're seeing some emotion -- and we probably should. But I think at this point it's better to let people get it out than to have it keep bubbling up.

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I don't think the new board is causing any sort of split. It's just calling attention to a split that's been in this community since it started.

There have always been people who wanted a more open board... who wanted certain freedoms that made them more comfortable and other people less comfortable. Heck, I was one of those people when I started here -- the rule was you could only talk about Descent, but I wanted the freedom to talk about other things with people who played Descent. In that case, I managed to convince Sup to ease up a little bit -- he reluctantly allowed us to talk about other things that interested us in the Cafe. In the current case, some people want the freedom to use harsher language, name cheaters by name, have different moderators, and so on. They started their own board in order to have those freedoms. That's perfectly respectable and reasonable. (Some of them conducted themselves with more respect and civility than others during the process, and if you have a problem with any individual, I think both boards have a PM button you can use to flame away. There's no need to yell about that here.)

This new bit of drama isn't going to destroy the community any more than the old bits of drama did. We've lived through eyerate, JFC, Rican being banned, Birds loves colors, the HEH! controversy, the DBB hacker, Slider's fake death, Pyropimps v Pyroplay... and we've had people leave the board, come back, leave again, come back under a new name, and leave a final time. A bunch of people leaving this board and starting a new one with a similar look and feel isn't really that big of a deal.

And, honestly, I don't mind having another board experimenting with a different philosophy of board government and different implementations. If they do something better than we do it, I have no qualms with stealing their ideas. If their board turns out to be hella awesome, that can only be a positive for the community overall.

In the next six or eight months, things will end up balancing out.

then we can see who's got the right idea.

Lothar wrote:We've lived through eyerate, JFC, Rican being banned, Birds loves colors, the HEH! controversy, the DBB hacker, Slider's fake death, Pyropimps v Pyroplay...

LOL...memories. It's like a big old soap opera no?

Ah. I was wondering what the whole point of yet another Descent forum was. Personally I thought the PD ones might have been one too many, but I do understand that those who frequent them do so because of personality clashes/differences with people here.

But I can't be bothered registering for another forum. If anything important happens, it's mentioned here, so...

Besides, the mods here are nothing compared to some elsewhere. It'd probably be one of the more lenient forums I've seen (apart from Clan BBs anyway).