DescentBB

http://www.nraila.org/CurrentLegislatio ... px?ID=1858

(It was voted in the other day)

Ths is the only online source I can find atm. Mississippi residents can now legally shoot to kill when it comes to home intruders. They are no longer required to \"run away\" at the first sign of danger.

I say its about damn time we start seeing more legistlation like this put in place. Thoughts?

Hell yeah, nuke the bitches. if they come into your home pop em.

MD-2389 wrote: I say its about damn time we start seeing more legistlation like this put in place. Thoughts?

Agreed, Good move mississippi legislature.

It always depends on the way it's worded.

If someone sneaks or breaks into your home, you should have every right to use whatever force necessary to get them away from your family. But there also has to be a limit to \"I felt threatened so I shot him\" -- if a guy pops his head into your garage, grabs your bike, and you yell and he starts riding off, deadly force is not necessary.

Lothar - agreed.

The only problem with these laws is essentially that, at what point can you take the law in your own hands. You have to defend your home, understood, but can you shoot someone for playing mailbox baseball because you might feel threatened? Is it limited to actual home break-ins or anything you may be uncomfortable with?

My personal opinion is that I will defend my family but not necessarily my home. My goal will always be get them to leave without having to shoot/kill them.

Scenario 1
We are all upstairs and we hear someone break in downstairs, my first action is going to be to warn the person that I am armed and that if he leaves now he won’t get hurt. If he leaves right away, great. I call the cops and we go from there.

Scenario 2
We are all upstairs and we hear someone break in downstairs, my first action is going to be to warn the person that I am armed and that if he leaves now he won’t get hurt. If he starts stealing stuff but doesn’t make a move towards my family, I will be pissed that my stuff is being stolen but material things aren’t worth anyone’s life. That’s what insurance is for. We call the cops immediately and hope they arrive before he leaves.

Scenario 3
We are all upstairs and we hear someone break in downstairs, my first action is going to be to warn the person that I am armed and that if he leaves now he won’t get hurt. If he starts walking up the stairs, I shoot to kill and then call the cops.

Scenario 4
We are all downstairs and we hear someone break in downstairs, we try to make it upstairs and force one of the previous scenarios. If we can’t make it upstairs, deadly force is going to be used without hesitation.

Say what you will, but I really don’t think that deadly force is warranted if there is no threat to my family. Furthermore, I don’t feel that just the act of breaking in to my house automatically constitutes a threat to my family.

I don't have an upstairs. If someone is in my house, and doesn't leave immediately after being advised that I will use deadly force, I will shoot without hesitation, as he is obviously a deranged individual or he has intentions inimical to the well-being of myself or my loved ones.

Castle doctrine or not.

WarAdvocat wrote:I don't have an upstairs. If someone is in my house, and doesn't leave immediately after being advised that I will use deadly force, I will shoot without hesitation, as he is obviously a deranged individual or he has intentions inimical to the well-being of myself or my loved ones.

Castle doctrine or not.

If I lived in a ranch style home with only one floor I would do the same.

I understand Dedmans sentiments and for the most part I share them BUT...
Someone who breaks into your house does pose a threat to your family even if they don't consciously intend to do anything more than steal some property. Imagine the police were called by an observant nieghbor just as the criminal entered and when the police drive up while he's still inside he snaps and goes from a burglar to a hostage taker...
Or, he is suddenly challenged by an angry child or spouse who snaps and decides that they don't want to let him take their favorite <whatever> and the criminals reaction to their challenge becomes violent....

There are thousands of different scenarios where a burgler becomes a killer and the only scenario where a burgler doesn't pose a threat to you and your family is when he is dead or not in/on your property!

Personally if the situation allows it my plan is to warn him to surrender at once, if his reaction isn't one of instant capitulation and/or retreat ( as in running from my house begging for mercy) then I'll be putting two rounds into the center mass of his torso and composing myself to execute a headshot if he doesn't go down hard from the first two rounds!

In any certain point i would think of making a do not enter sign, or something warning and individual that they are not welcomed peacefully and deadly/neccesary force will promptly be used.

The way I understand it, if you feel threatened you are allowed to use deadly force to defend yourself. However, you can't pop the SOB if he's making a run for it.

A question for all you armed, ready to shoot homeowners. Just where do you keep your firearm?
Upstairs locked away? When you are downstairs and two guy breaks in and the intruder's are between you and the stairs...what do you do then? Have you thought of this scenario even. In short how quick can you access your weapon when needed? Is it loaded? Is it locked away? When is the last time you practice with it? Have you ever tried to shoot and hold a flashlight(in dark house)? When is the last time you cleaned it?
Just some stuff to think about.

I keep mine locked up in two different gun safes. One is a regular safe with all but one pistol in it, definitely not able to get to them quickly.
The other has my Sig .239 .40 cal, loaded magazine with one in the chamber. It's in one of these.
To get to it you just push the right combination of buttons.

I purposely keep them far from my bedroom so that by the time I get one in my hand I'm fully awake.
As you might guess my guns aren't my first line of defense for the intruder that wakes me up by entering the house while I'm asleep. First on my list is the top to the toilet tank...nice and heavy and short so I can swing it in the hallway, then there is a fire extiguisher that is also short and heavy...a few other items like a certain towel bar that is decent quality metal made back when everything was heavy duty...just snatch it off the wall and swing away...

As to practicing, I don't do it as much as I used to (almost daily for years) but I can still outshoot all the local cops and most local mortals with either of my Sig's or my Colt .45 Officers model!

The reality is, if someone breaks in while I'm asleep chances are they will either be armed and already have the advantage or they will be unarmed and get the crap beat out of them, my pistols will probably never be used in either scenario.

At the moment, my only firearms are two hunting rifles; a Win .270 and a Win 30.06. I don't intend to use either for home defense. I want to get 12 gauge shot gun for that. Plenty of oomf, but won't harm people in the next house. Plus, I don't have to aim very precisely for it to be effective.

As of right now, I am stuck with Will's top of the toilet tank.

To add on to Will's \"Things to Think About,\" what about the fact that YOU'RE KILLING SOMEONE. It isn't all that easy. People do it in the fuckin movies all the time, but it is not that easy in real life. All you guys talk about is \"shooting without hesitation\" but chances are you are going to hesitate, and chances are so will the criminal. My guess is that at least 75% of you guys would not react as quickly or as coldly as you explained. When you point a gun at someone, you'll be thinking about how this man or woman has been alive xx years, and all their experiences, their fond memories, how they have influenced people, maybe they have a family, a little girl, and maybe they need some money so they are doing something stupid, but good people do bad things, and good people make mistakes, and this particular guy or girl is possibly one of those good people, and maybe i shouldn't shoot them without hesitation because its tough as ★■◆● to end someone's life and you'll be haunted by these questions for the rest of your life, you might have to deal with the slow replay every night of the bullet hitting them, blowing them apart, ending what took many years to create, and then thinking about their mother or their father or their kids who love them very much and who might now be screwed up by the emotional trauma they've been through, and now you think how you've influenced all these people in so many negative ways, and you start to think maybe i didn't have to do it, maybe i could have talked to this criminal, maybe they didnt have intentions for my family.

Money! wrote:To add on to Will's "Things to Think About," what about the fact that YOU'RE KILLING SOMEONE. It isn't all that easy. People do it in the **** movies all the time, but it is not that easy in real life. All you guys talk about is "shooting without hesitation" but chances are you are going to hesitate, and chances are so will the criminal. My guess is that at least 75% of you guys would not react as quickly or as coldly as you explained. When you point a gun at someone, you'll be thinking about how this man or woman has been alive xx years, and all their experiences, their fond memories, how they have influenced people, maybe they have a family, a little girl, and maybe they need some money so they are doing something stupid, but good people do bad things, and good people make mistakes, and this particular guy or girl is possibly one of those good people, and maybe i shouldn't shoot them without hesitation because its tough as ***** to end someone's life and you'll be haunted by these questions for the rest of your life, you might have to deal with the slow replay every night of the bullet hitting them, blowing them apart, ending what took many years to create, and then thinking about their mother or their father or their kids who love them very much and who might now be screwed up by the emotional trauma they've been through, and now you think how you've influenced all these people in so many negative ways, and you start to think maybe i didn't have to do it, maybe i could have talked to this criminal, maybe they didnt have intentions for my family.

All good points but, at least for me, a non-factor. Not that I wouldn't have those thoughts about someone I shot, I would, or about someone who seems to be putting me in a dangerous situation where I'm considering using deadly force, but I've trained myself to never even consider pointing a gun at someone unless I'm going to shoot them and to never shoot someone unless my life, or the life of someone else in in imminent danger.
If I was alone in my house and some madman came in screaming bloody murder waving a machete around and I had a pistol in my hand but also had a way out I'd probably slip out and call the cops but if my kids are home he's dead, I wouldn't hesitate a nanosecond!

Obviously there is always a possibility I may hesitate and thoughts could go through my mind but I'm pretty confident I would never point a gun at someone until there was no time left to do anything else.
I'll have second thoughts before I produce a weapon but once I've pulled one out it's because at that point in the chain of events I'm already commited to shooting someone, not because I think I'm going to wield some magic wand like in the movies and change the course of events.
Upon my pulling the weapon out the course of events are already carved in stone....someone is going to get shot!
I doubt there would be a measurable period of time between when my front and rear sights are aligned and when I squeeze the trigger unless you get it on tape and play it back in slow motion.

Will,

you know I love you, but i think the kid is right. everyone in here is pretty gung ho...but how many have killed at close range? quite a bit different, i played hockey and fighting is a lot different than it looks on tv...for one...it hurts...and two...you're actually doing it instead of talking about it. I'm 6'4 and did a decent job at it...but one time I scrapped with the wrong guy...and he made me pay for it...two broken teeth, a nice gash above the eye, and a lot of embarrassment, I didn't even get his helmet off.

I think it's a good move. Any half way intelligent thief knows to make sure they break in when no one is home. You're always asking for trouble when you aware of the fact that people are going to be aware of the fact that you are cammitting a crime- If you're going to engage in criminal activity, a good rule of thumb is to only let those whom you trust or whom will soon be dead witness the crime.

Will Robinson wrote: All good points but, at least for me, a non-factor. Not that I wouldn't have those thoughts about someone I shot, I would, or about someone who seems to be putting me in a dangerous situation where I'm considering using deadly force, but I've trained myself to never even consider pointing a gun at someone unless I'm going to shoot them and to never shoot someone unless my life, or the life of someone else in in imminent danger.
If I was alone in my house and some madman came in screaming bloody murder waving a machete around and I had a pistol in my hand but also had a way out I'd probably slip out and call the cops but if my kids are home he's dead, I wouldn't hesitate a nanosecond!

I can appreciate what Money said, but I agree with Will. I will take it a step further though and freely admit that if I have to shoot someone to protect my child I will most likely regret the necessity of having to do so. I am not a violent person. I have never even been in a fist fight in my adult life (40 years and counting) but if someone is directly threatening the life of my wife and/or daughter, I will not hesitate to use deadly force. I may regret having to do so afterwards but that won't stop me. The life of my child is far too precious to me.

When it comes to self-defense, or defense of family or friends, I will not hesitate to protect those I care about. That being said, if I ever felt the need that a gun was necessary, I wouldn't shoot to kill unless there was no other option. I'm not going to kill someone over theft of property. Thats what home insurance is for. At the most I might wound them just to get them to leave. However, if you come near, or after me with a weapon, I will not hesitate to take the intruder down.

That being said, I'm not saying that you should kill anyone that enters your house uninvited. All I'm advocating is that it should be legal to use lethal force to defend those you care about should the need arrise and no other option be available.

Well, I'm not going to say I think it's a good law, I think it's too ambiguous and could open the door to more problems but maybe not. My theory, safeguard your house a little more than solely depending on a gun to save lives. I doubt anyone on here has a home that is so nice a thief wouldn't be able to pass it up. /rant

Zuruck wrote:My theory, safeguard your house a little more than solely depending on a gun to save lives.

Good point. That is why I keep all external doors locked in the evening and when I am not at home AND I have an alarm system installed.

Zuruck wrote:I doubt anyone on here has a home that is so nice a thief wouldn't be able to pass it up. /rant

I don't think it's a matter of not being able to pass it up so much as it's a matter of the house having better stuff than the thief has. A lot of home breakins are done by people looking for easy money to support a drug habit. A house doesn't have to be nice, it just has to have things that can be pawned.

MD-2389 wrote:That being said, if I ever felt the need that a gun was necessary, I wouldn't shoot to kill unless there was no other option.

Not going to get into detailed descriptions of defense shooting here, but that's a ridiculous statement. "Shooting to wound" only works on TV. If you're going to shoot don't screw around or you're better off just running away.

woodchip wrote:A question for all you armed, ready to shoot homeowners. Just where do you keep your firearm?
Upstairs locked away? When you are downstairs and two guy breaks in and the intruder's are between you and the stairs...what do you do then? Have you thought of this scenario even. In short how quick can you access your weapon when needed? Is it loaded? Is it locked away? When is the last time you practice with it? Have you ever tried to shoot and hold a flashlight(in dark house)? When is the last time you cleaned it?
Just some stuff to think about.

I need to put a small gun safe in the office in case some freako breaks in during 'waking hours'. Aside from that I have two 'single-action' automatic pistols (9mm & .45 ACP) in the bedroom easily accessible, with one in the spout and 6 in the magazine.

The guns are in protective holsters, and in the past were fired almost weekly, although the frequency has dropped of late (every few months), they are fully cleaned following each session.

as for shooting while holding a flash-light, I must admit that thought had never crossed my mind. Luckily, only in the event of a power failure would that be necessary, but it's a thought. Thanks

I have never actually shot someone, nor have I been trained to but... isn't it easier to shoot to kill than it is to shoot to wound? Shooting to kill is going for center mass. Shooting to wound is going for what, a shoulder or leg? That doesn't make sense. Besides, with a shotgun its just point, click, and ship.

All shooting is shooting to kill in the eyes of the law. Keep that in mind, especially if you ever feel you have cause to discharge a firearm in earnest.

As for training, it's not a bad idea to ask around at your local range if they know of any good teachers/shooting coaches, especially if you're going to use a pistol. A few hundred bucks for a few sessions of defense shooting training is money well spent in my book.

There are, of course, various schools of thought as to which weapon is best for home defense (pistol or shotgun) but unless you can legally obtain a short barrelled shotgun, be aware that it may not be ideal in many scenarios (close range engagement), and plan accordingly. It would really stink to get the barrel caught on the furniture.

Everything could be avoided with good home security. I'm not talking ADT or anything, but be smart. Strong doors and windows will keep out just about anything, then you don't have to live in a constant state of fear with a .45 under the pillow. I sleep very well at night, I have a hockey stick nearby if needs be, but no gun. I would like a cannon though...an old one. Or maybe a snub nose carronade...that would keep people out, I hope!

WarAdvocat wrote:All shooting is shooting to kill in the eyes of the law. Keep that in mind, especially if you ever feel you have cause to discharge a firearm in earnest.

As for training, it's not a bad idea to ask around at your local range if they know of any good teachers/shooting coaches, especially if you're going to use a pistol. A few hundred bucks for a few sessions of defense shooting training is money well spent in my book.

I've heard the best training you can get is this: "Shoot at center of mass." Some people will try to talk about fancy "shoot them in the knee" crap... as if you where completely calm and the intruder just stood there so you could take good aim and try to shoot him in any specific place. IMO, the only difference between shoot-to-kill and shoot-to-wound is the number of times you pull the trigger, and if you keep on pulling the trigger once you know that you have hit the person.

When I was 17, a friend and I were visiting his relations down in Kentucky. Friend went to town and when he came back (we were staying at his grand mothers house which is located at the end of a dead end road) he said he was kidnapped and the kidnappers told him to get some more money while they waited up the road.
Boys weren't real bright. I got by 12 bore, threw it in the car and my buddy and I went up the road to meet them. When we stopped by the 'nappers, they started to get in the car and thats when I pointed the shotgun at them. Doing so, I didn't have any thoughts about consequences just a unemotional thought that if the guy makes one more move into the car I squeeze the trigger. Luckily the guy looked at the gun, looked at me and slowly backed away and ran down the road. In short you might be surprised what you are capable of doing when you and yours are threatened.

On a side note, there are two reasons I don't carry a concealed firearm.

#1 A gun tends to make you overconfident.
#2 I tend to over-react, and ask questions later.

That's a recipe for disaster IMO.

Eh, I don't buy it woodchip. You fancy raccoons and the like, makes it harder to believe. Now you see, what if EVERY gun on this earth was gone, do you think it would be a safer place? I wonder, no gun control, no nothing, just no firearms, all you have is swords, knives. What you think?

Yeah, there was a lot less violence in the world before there were guns.

(Sorry Z, but I had to drive my Peterbilt through that one)

I vote 'about the same'.

Weapons don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people.

I am looking at 2 shotguns.

1) Remingotn 870 with 26\" barrell
2) Mossberg 500.

Which would you recommend for home defense and why?

I didn't say there would be no violence...but I don't think it would increase. It would decrease by a considerable margin. You know, the days before people carried one in their glove box, in their purse, camping, that sort of thing. You cannot tell me that the invention of the modern firearm has curtailed violence, because it just hasn't.

Zuruk, that's an opinion, one that is contradicted by thousands of years of history. I have my own opinion. If guns weren't around, killers would be FORCED to do their killing at close hand and many who would otherwise never have been in that position would come to relish that aspect of it.

Sorry DM I don't even own a shotgun. I'm just aware of some basic principles of using a longer barreled weapon in close quarters from reading and personal experience. There are plenty of websites and forums where you can ask that very question. I'd be interested to learn what you come up with. I favor handguns personally, but my mind is open

WarAdvocat wrote:I vote 'about the same'.

Weapons don't kill people, PEOPLE kill people.

I don't know about that... maybe not voilence, but I'd be willing to bet that there would be less murders in the world without guns. The simple fact is, guns make it easier, thus some murders happen that would only be severe beatings with a more effort-demanding weapon.

Zuruck wrote:Eh, I don't buy it woodchip. You fancy raccoons and the like, makes it harder to believe. Now you see, what if EVERY gun on this earth was gone, do you think it would be a safer place? I wonder, no gun control, no nothing, just no firearms, all you have is swords, knives. What you think?

Wouldn't change a thing other than the fact that you'd have to be up close and personal with your enemy. What do you think they did a thousand years ago?

I may be wrong, but there was a long discussion a while back here in E & C, and the consensus was that that murders don't go down when you take guns away.

I wonder if anyone (Palzon?) will back me up on this?

Dedman wrote:I am looking at 2 shotguns.

1) Remingotn 870 with 26" barrell
2) Mossberg 500.

Which would you recommend for home defense and why?

Get the Rem 870 mcs or the Mossy 500. A long barrel can be grabbed from you if you are going around a corner inside the house by the intruder as he waits around the other side (most people will walk with the shotguns barrel extended in front of them). When searching for the intruder and you have to go around a corner, keep as much distance from the corner as possible. Move sideways with the guns barrel pointing at the corner as you do so. Same goes for doorways. Short barrel will also have better spread in close range scenario.

Zuruck wrote:Eh, I don't buy it woodchip. You fancy raccoons and the like, makes it harder to believe.

So what would walking naked with vicious wild raccoons have to do with pointing a gun at someone???
Wait....maybe you better not answer that.