DescentBB

Well, I decided against doing a massive upgrade right now but I might do a smaller upgrade. I figure it would be best to do a larger upgrade late August, just before I move out, to help keep down wear and tear and the prices will be lower too for high end equipment. I have heard that the GTX has some problems with a few games so I'm not so sure that is the way to go. Right now I'm running on a 2.66GHz Athlon FX, an MSI KT64 MS-7021 v(1.X) ATX Motherboard, 512MB of RAM and a 128MB GeForce 4200. So, it is a fairly old system at this point in time.
Recently I picked up a copy of Oblivion being that I wanted the collectors edition. I can't play it being that my graphics card is out of date. Other than that and I could run it on fairly decent settings I'm guessing. Especially if I upgrade my RAM. My monitor can't go over 1280X1024 resolution anyway so I figure I don't need super-high settings anyway for the moment as I can't afford, nor can I fit a bigger monitor in my room. A 6800 would probably bottleneck and I'm not sure about a 6600. This would mean that I would have to probably upgrade to an Athlon 64 3200+ at least which currently runs around $150. However, that also means I would probably need a PCI express compatable motherboard and 1GB of PC 3200 RAM.
If I go the smallest and cheapest, I could buy a GeForce 6200 which is about $48 and 512MB of PC 2100 RAM for around $32. This would be the cheapest possible upgrade I could probably go for. Everything else looks to be compatible. Though I barely pass on my processor at the moment. That might be because it was being read as a 2.2GHz machine and not a 2.66GHz machine too As the recommended is a 3GHz processor. The big thing that concernes me about the 6200 is that it only has 4 pixel pipelines.
However, I have heard that the 7600 GT has a lot of bang for the buck. It runs around $219 and offers a whole lot of power for the money you spend. However, going this direction, I would still have to upgrade my motherboard and RAM. RAM I think I'll go to 1GB. I won't be going to dual monitors for a while. One guy claimed that you need to run Maya on 2GB's but I have been running it, unaware on 512MB's of RAM, thinking that I was running on a little more than 1.

Give us some real specs about what you have, the exact processor model (Since AMD never made a \"Athlon FX 2.66 GHz\" or any other chip at 2.66 GHz for that matter)

List what you have like this for an example (my server computer):
Processor: Athlon XP 1800+ @ 1.6 GHz
Motherboard: Epox Nforce2 400 / Socket A
Video: Nvidia Geforce3 64 MB
RAM: 512 MB kingston hyperx (BH5)
Sound: onboard
HDD: 120 GB + 250 GB
PSU: 360w enlight

What you might want to think about is taking your existing AGP system and sticking 1 GB of RAM and a 7800 GS (the 7800 GS cards are all AGP) into it.

http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=435

Download and run this Kevin. That'll tell you EXACTLY what processor you're running, and what it supports.

The problem is I don't know the exact processor. I think that I am confusing the bus with the clock.


Name: AMD Athlon (tm)XP 2000+

System Bus: 266MHz DDR

Internal Clock: 1650.56MHz


My bad, looks like I was a bit confused about my own system stats. I haven't looked in a while. I thought my bro said that it ran at over 2.6GHz but I think I missheard him.

The Oblivion test I ran stated that it was a 2.2 GHz processor though?


I could look into overclocking a 2800+ Barton core. My bro told me a while back that he took a 2500+ Barton core and overclocked it to run cooler than a 3200+ core. Or I could overclock a 3200+ Barton. I saw a couple of those flying around recently.

The 3200+ is more expensive than an Athlon 64 939 3200+ though which runs at about $159 at the moment, which is dissapointing but my motherboard won't take a 64 bit processor, nor do I have windows 64.


Could shove a Barton 3200+ in for $185 and overclock the crap out of it. Shove in some more PC 2100 512MB RAM for $32 and a GeForce 6600 AGP 128MB for $120. Or save some money and shove a 2800+ and overclock it to 3200+ for $130 instead. Would this work?

If you had trouble figuring out what type of CPU u had I don't think you should mess with overclocking

Even overclocked tho that system will be a massive bottle neck if you slap a newer card into it.

[]V[]essenjah wrote:Could shove a Barton 3200+ in for $185 and overclock the crap out of it. Shove in some more PC 2100 512MB RAM for $32 and a GeForce 6600 AGP 128MB for $120. Or save some money and shove a 2800+ and overclock it to 3200+ for $130 instead. Would this work?

A Barton 3200+ or overclocking a 2800+ would require PC3200 RAM since the 3200+ runs a 400 MHz bus/RAM, PC2100 would be too slow to support the CPU. Overclocking the 2800+ would probably require even better RAM, like PC4000.

A Geforce 6600 AGP is about as fast as a old FX 5900 or ATI 9800 Pro, which means it is far slower then any 6800 series card, or a 7800 GT/GS.

http://www.srtest.com/referrer/srtest

the above is the test that messenjah was talking about.

its a tosser, as it doesn't do any real intellegent checking of CPU capabilites, and just goes by what the OS reports the CPU name is, which in my case is \"Unknown CPU Type\" aka my overclocked barton mobile.

if you nab yourself a descent PixelShader 3.0 type card your descent.

Messenger, im not going to answer directly what you ask, but instead give the best answer for your situation.

Wait. Oblivion isnt going anywhere. Wait until you have the money to build a decent PC. There are alot of things that work together in a PC, when you upgrade one component you get bottlenecks in others. If you upgrade now, and then again later, it is just a waste of money. When time passes the higher end stuff NOW will be mid-range LATER, you can then afford it and play Oblivion with good FPS without having to spend as much money.

They money you would spend now will not give you the best bang for your buck for your current plan. IMO it stinks. Save your money so that when you upgrade, you do it right and wont need another upgrade for a long time. For you, Murphy's law will be to your benefit if you just wait until the right time to buy up so you can play Oblivion right.

And I cant think of anything else for your situation.

LOL, but you can PLAY it j/k


No, I can figure out how to overclock pretty easy. The fact that I didn't know what processor I was running on is simply because, I wasn't the one who selected this particular processor 3 years ago so I wasn't sure what was even inside it. The big thing is that I didn't understand the difference between Athlon's and Intel's. Where on newegg I saw some of the processors stating that they were a 1.something GHz processor but above them they would say something like 3200+. So it was a bit confusing. However, now I understand that Athlon's generally use more per cycle than an Intel so that is why they are marked 2000+ or 3200+ is because their processors work harder so a 1.65 processor is actually a 2Ghz processor if it is marked 2000+.


I'll probably be fine that way but I think I will wait and try to play it the right way. But it is VERY hard to wait as it is pretty much the only game I'm looking forward too and I know that when I move out I won't have much time to play it anyway since I am moving into an apartment with my two best friends who plan to network our computers together. Between that, work, school and ballroom dancing.... and trying to take care of bills, washing, food ecs... I'm well pretty much out of time


Being that I am running on a 2GHz machine and I DO need a new graphics card (the one I have is going to melt unless I weld a fan onto it) maybe I'll save some time and buy a 6200+ which is pretty cheap. But I may wait and see how it goes first.

Your existing GF4 Ti4200 will probably be faster then a geforce 6200 AGP just FYI. If you are going to upgrade your card, aim higher, a vanilla 6800 AGP would fill the slot with that CPU perfetly.

Right, but a 6800GS would also be pointless from what I understand as it would bottleneck and I wouldn't see all that extra power going anywhere. I need some one that is just right. I will be upgrading again in August to probably an SLI board, and something high end like a GeForce 7900GT along with at LEAST a 3200+ 64 bit Athlon if not higher. Or I could look at a Quadro card. Not to mention at least 2GB of RAM 3200+.


I just need something to toss in that will tide things over until then.

[]V[]essenjah wrote:I just need something to toss in that will tide things over until then.

yeah, its called waiting to buy the game until after that upgrade.

the 6200 isn't "just right", its plain wrong. It makes extensive use of system memory- if you want to cheap out, look at a 6600 or an x600.

Your planned upgrade requires you buying a new MB anyways, I'd wait. Hell, I'd wait till Obivlion is nice and patched anyways.

A 6800 might bottleneck in places, but it is nowhere near as big of a deal as you make it out to be and it varies depending on what game you are playing. For instance, at 1024x768 with 4xFSAA in Descent 3 the 6800 will be totally bottlenecked by the CPU and will probably barely be any faster then your 4200 (without FSAA). But change the game to Doom3 at 1024x768 with 4xFSAA, and now the video card is going to be working quite hard for a living.

My 6800 GT @ Ultra card is COMPLETELY CPU limited in Descent 3, even at 1280x960 with 4xFSAA and a 16x aniso filter, the video card is still not tapping it's full potential with my CPU at 2.4 GHz. I don't hit the card limit in Descent 3 till I bump it to 8x FSAA. But change the game to Doom3, Quake 4, HL2, or any other more recent game and the system balances out just fine. My 6800GT @ Ultra with a 2.4 GHz CPU balances out about the same as your 2 GHz CPU would with a 6800 GS. If you get a GS then it's one card you can plug into your system to dramatically improve the performance of recent games, it is the solution that requires the least effort to buy you some time till your next upgrade.

If you wanted to break the GPU limit in D3 at 1024x768 with no AA on my video card, it would require a CPU somewhere around 4-6 times faster then the fastest Athlon 64 on the market right now. The latest video cards would have no problem reaching as high as 2000+ FPS average in 1024x768 Descent 3 timetests if there was a CPU fast enough to keep up.

fliptw wrote:yeah, its called waiting to buy the game until after that upgrade.

I would say that it is still my buisness so get your nose out. :X



My vid card has no current fan on it. It has been running like that for quit some time now and is getting slower all the time. Not to mention that core center is constantly screaming at me with an annoying alarm unless I shut it off, and from what I can see, something is overheating and the only fan that isn't working, is on the video card.


As for why I bought the game now? Because I wanted the collectors edition, so that I could get the 112 page guide, the tools and the DVD documentaries. I generally like to see the process behind putting a video game together, especially if it is one that I enjoy. It would also be nice to read a little bit into the background story behind it as I missed out on most of the series other than Morrowind.


Well, I just wanted to pick up the 6200 because it was the cheapest thing I could find that would work. Hell, I'd even run my 4200 if it was supported by Oblivion. Supposedly a 5800 will do the trick. I was actually looking for a 5800 but those aren't on the Market, even though BFG 5500's are for some odd reason. A 6800 AGP right now would be pointless as I will be buying at least a 6800 in five months if not a high-end Quadro card or a 7900GT. A 6200 is also about $150 less than a 6800, not to mention I will be moving out of AGP and going to PCI Express in August when perform my big upgrade, thus my 6800 will become worthless.

[]V[]essenjah wrote:My vid card has no current fan on it. It has been running like that for quit some time now and is getting slower all the time. Not to mention that core center is constantly screaming at me with an annoying alarm unless I shut it off, and from what I can see, something is overheating and the only fan that isn't working, is on the video card.

Best of luck to ya...

You dont need a Quadro unless you do serious 3d work. I mean really high poly, its for precision stuff. Stick with Geforce.

Do a google for your video card's fan and see if you can get one. Otherwise it would be best to get a temp card ether from Ebay or a refurbished unit from Newegg.

Ummmm TW, when I move out is when I NEED that Quadro card. You probably don't know what I have been working on for this past year as I haven't shown it to anyone other than my parents. I'm stepping out of simple game model mode and stepping into serious 3D art. Yes I will be producing some game models but nothing under a polycoutn of at LEAST 10K. The only games I will probably be modeling for are UT2007 and Oblivion for a while and other than that, I'll be working on high-polygon meshes as I am trying to learn everything about Maya and 3DS Max at this point in time. Blender for a few other things as many of it's tools can be used for high-poly work.


I'm not going to build ships and robots for D3 forever. I stepped out of that phase a while back when I realised, no one appreciated it anyway. So, upgrade skills, get some better software and work somewhere that I am wanted and needed.

This last year I've spent my free time, learning new programs, working on swords, character heads, and outfits for characters, and painting on Photoshop. I also created a high-poly character head, which I am still working on.


It's time for me to expand and move on, and thus, time for me to move out on my own and go to technical school while taking on-line courses in 3D art until I get a good job and can afford to move into a larger city where I can get a bachelors degree in computer science, particularly in the area of game design.

So, yes, it is time for a Quadro.


And yes, I have decided to wait until August for my Oblivion. Maybe I'll put that time I have for fun things into physical exercise and maybe finish Morrowind, since I never have made it through.

VonVulcan wrote:Best of luck to ya...

It isn't that I don't know how to fix the problem. Get a kit and weld a new fan on. The motherboard issue was caused by the fact that I set my Bus speed to 133MHz 266MHz. Thus, it is running at it's max power. The alarm didn't go off until I did that. Thus, I could also set it lower, but I would rather not if I can help it, as it does boost performance. The graphics card could be building up extra heat. I've actually been running like this for a long time and the case seems to run just cool enough to keep things ticking ok. I just open the side door and put a large fan out of my room by it. However, I have to clean the dust out of my case all the time due to this as well.


CLARIFICATION:
##############
Doh, I missread my brother. He said that his Barton 2500+ ran cooler at 3200+ than his old stock processor did at 2000+ which I am running.

I was skimming a bit and thought he said it ran faster than a 3200+. He just said that it ran cooler than his 2000+ Athlon XP.



Pardon me, I am the student trying to learn how to build and repair computers. Not the teacher mind you, that is my brother. My area of expertise is in 3D and 2D art. Though I will be going into computer repair this next year.


Actually my brother recommended I get the Quadro over a GeForce as I am becoming more serious about my 3D art.

Messenger, I've been messing with 3D Studio Max for longer than you've been a member of this BB. I've worked with scenes ranging in the tens of millions of polygons, and I can honestly tell you that a Quadro won't do you a BIT of good until you get around to working with Shrek level of polygons. I'm sorry, but no game dev will get anywhere close to that level. Not until computers progress A LOT. Granted, I'm not active in the CGI industry because this is a HOBBY for me. Trust me when I say that the Geforce will work just fine for what you're going to do. Besides, whats the point of working on a high end development card if what you're designing won't work for crap on a lower-end Geforce 6xxx card?

Oh, I wouldn't tell flip off like that if I were you. You did, after all, did ask for help and thus left yourself open to outside suggestions.

As for your fan problem, you could either go the Acecombat route and zip-tie a fan on (which is a very temporary solution), or bite the bullet and buy a new heatsink/fan combo. This will work fine.

Right MD, but I do want to get into rendering a few things. I don't want to be able to just create one kind of 3D art. It is nice to expand to new horizons. It's kind of funky that I really like using Subsurf and NURBS a lot anymore. But I dunno, I may sink to the low of buying a 7900GT at some point.


As for flip, he makes a smarmy comment, he gets a smarmy comment. Fair game. Besides, didn't notice the smiley?

Actually, I may allready have a fan coming but thanks.

Messenger, trust me when I say you dont need a Quadro. If you ever actually need one I can sell you mine. My dad has stopped doing 3d Cad work a long time ago.