DescentBB

So D3 plays & looks great, but she just crashes all the time.
Here's the history: When I installed I immeditately patched it to 1.4 and ran it for about an hour. Then it froze and I restarted. After that it only played for like 10 minutes before the same thing. I was also getting BSODs every so often that I'm convinced were related to a crapped out GeForce2 mx200 I had. I replaced the card with a GeForce 4 MX440 and, because I could never seem to get the driver problem fixed, I restored C:\windows\sytem32\config\system and reinstalled with the updated nvidia drivers.

The bsods have gone away but D3 still won't run smoothly. However, it did play great for about an hour after I restored the system file then I got a strange error (I didn't write it down though) concerning main.exe, some kind of access violation. But it didn't lock up the computer like the previous errors. So closed D3 and started again and eventually would recieve the same error. Restarted, scanned drive, and tried game again but now game just locks system up after a few minutes.

I haven't tried re-installing yet, I'll try that after I post. But is there any hope for me? It seems so many others have enjoyed this game on XP and I've only just begun my journey into Descent and really think it's a tight game.
some specs:
System: WinXP Pro all the latest updates
Ram 512DDR
Board Asus A7V8X-x (using SoundMax onboard sound, latest via 4in1)
GPU: (PNY) nVIDIA GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X

I also have the original error that D3 gave me after I restored the system file. This post is verbose enough I'll post the text of that below.

I had forgotten how long this thing is, it really needs to be run through a debugger so I'm not sure how valuable it will be to anyone here. I'll post just the header and then the modules that are loaded perhaps that would be helpful. If anyone needs the full text file I'd be happy to e-mail it to them just let me know.

Excecution in WinMain() was stopped by an Access Violation
Username: James
MachineName: WILLY
Descent 3 Release build 586
Error occurred at 2/27/2004 15:46:22.
Module: C:\Games\Descent3\main.exe.
System Memory Status:
Percent of memory in use: 48
Bytes of physical memory : 536379392
Free physical memory bytes : 275730432
Available virtual memory : 1116057600


Modules:
C:\Games\Descent3\main.exe, addr: 0x00400000 size:1789952 [5/10/2000 20:39:28]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\IForce2.dll, addr: 0x01b90000 size:61440 [11/3/1998 14:31:00]
C:\Games\Descent3\custom\cache\d3s35.tmp, addr: 0x077f0000 size:126976 [2/27/2004 15:01:55]
C:\Games\Descent3\custom\cache\d3s2E.tmp, addr: 0x07820000 size:102400 [2/27/2004 14:31:12]
C:\Games\Descent3\custom\cache\d3s2B.tmp, addr: 0x07840000 size:204800 [2/27/2004 14:31:12]
C:\Games\Descent3\custom\cache\d3s2D.tmp, addr: 0x07880000 size:106496 [2/27/2004 14:31:12]
C:\Games\Descent3\Soar.dll, addr: 0x10000000 size:29184 [5/5/1998 12:41:58]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\uxtheme.dll, addr: 0x5ad70000 size:203264 [8/29/2002 05:41:18]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\opengl32.dll, addr: 0x5ed00000 size:686080 [8/29/2002 05:41:10]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\HID.DLL, addr: 0x688f0000 size:22528 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\GLU32.dll, addr: 0x68b20000 size:116736 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\nvoglnt.dll, addr: 0x69500000 size:3551232 [10/6/2003 15:16:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\SYNCOR11.DLL, addr: 0x6bd00000 size:40820 [11/6/2002 20:00:38]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\dplayx.dll, addr: 0x6c750000 size:212992 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SHLWAPI.dll, addr: 0x70a70000 size:395264 [1/21/2004 15:18:42]
C:\WINDOWS\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.Windows.Common-Controls_6595b64144ccf1df_6.0.10.0_x-ww_f7fb5805\comctl32.dll, addr: 0x71950000 size:921600 [8/29/2002 04:41:32]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\mswsock.dll, addr: 0x71a50000 size:228352 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wshtcpip.dll, addr: 0x71a90000 size:17408 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\WS2HELP.dll, addr: 0x71aa0000 size:18944 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\WS2_32.dll, addr: 0x71ab0000 size:75264 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\WSOCK32.dll, addr: 0x71ad0000 size:21504 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wshisn.dll, addr: 0x71f30000 size:11776 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\DINPUT.dll, addr: 0x72280000 size:151552 [8/29/2002 05:40:50]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\msacm32.drv, addr: 0x72d10000 size:20480 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\wdmaud.drv, addr: 0x72d20000 size:22016 [8/17/2001 23:37:04]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\DDRAW.dll, addr: 0x73760000 size:253440 [8/29/2002 05:40:50]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\DCIMAN32.dll, addr: 0x73bc0000 size:7680 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\KsUser.dll, addr: 0x73ee0000 size:4096 [8/17/2001 23:36:18]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\DSOUND.dll, addr: 0x73f10000 size:338944 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\SETUPAPI.DLL, addr: 0x76670000 size:932864 [8/29/2002 05:41:12]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\WINMM.dll, addr: 0x76b40000 size:171520 [8/29/2002 05:41:18]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\Secur32.dll, addr: 0x76f90000 size:52224 [8/29/2002 05:41:12]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\CLBCATQ.DLL, addr: 0x76fd0000 size:468480 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\COMRes.dll, addr: 0x77050000 size:792064 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\OLEAUT32.dll, addr: 0x77120000 size:569344 [8/29/2002 05:41:10]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ole32.dll, addr: 0x771b0000 size:1172992 [8/25/2003 13:53:43]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\comctl32.dll, addr: 0x77340000 size:557056 [8/29/2002 05:40:50]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\SHELL32.dll, addr: 0x773d0000 size:8240640 [6/11/2003 15:43:48]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\midimap.dll, addr: 0x77bd0000 size:17920 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\MSACM32.dll, addr: 0x77be0000 size:67072 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\VERSION.dll, addr: 0x77c00000 size:16384 [8/23/2001 07:00:00]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\msvcrt.dll, addr: 0x77c10000 size:323072 [8/29/2002 05:41:08]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\GDI32.dll, addr: 0x77c70000 size:250368 [8/29/2002 05:40:56]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\USER32.dll, addr: 0x77d40000 size:560128 [9/25/2003 11:49:02]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\ADVAPI32.dll, addr: 0x77dd0000 size:558080 [8/29/2002 05:40:48]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\kernel32.dll, addr: 0x77e60000 size:930304 [8/29/2002 05:41:00]
C:\WINDOWS\System32\ntdll.dll, addr: 0x77f50000 size:654336 [5/1/2003 18:56:12]
C:\WINDOWS\system32\RPCRT4.dll, addr: 0x78000000 size:532480 [8/25/2003 13:53:45]
Registers:
EAX=0a67db00 CS=001b EIP=004c2793 EFLGS=00010246
EBX=ffffffff SS=0023 ESP=0012dfa8 EBP=00c44784
ECX=0777e434 DS=0023 ESI=00000000 FS=0038
EDX=00000240 ES=0023 EDI=00000056 GS=0000

I also forgot to mention that I've got DirectX 9.0b, and my processor is an AMD Athalon XP 2600 AND that I did flash bios to the latest update.
I think I've got everything pertinent now!

reinstalled D3 but to no avail, same problem as before. This time D3 crashed but I was able to get back to the desktop but then I got a bsod and had to reset.
I think the bsod is an IRQ not less or equal but I'm not sure. I have the computer set to not restart on bsod so I can record them now.
Also I disabled two things in bios relating to my AGP slot: AGP performance control and AGP write control, both were enabled. Not sure if that's anyting worthwhile though.
What about OpenGL vs. Direct3d? It doesn't seem to matter which one I select as I get the error anyway. Also, I did read on a post in a different forum about an OpenGL patch for Windows but I wasn't sure if that applied since I'm running XP Pro.

Have you tried running D3 under a different compatibility mode? This really shouldn't need to be done but it maybe worth a try. Right Click and go to properties on your shortcut or main executable, whichever you're running from, and go to the compatibility tab. Check "Run this program in compatibility mode for" and then from the drop down menu pick Windows 98/ME and see if that helps.

Try running it in Windows 2000 mode as well and see if this improves anything. Theres no garuntee that any of this will help this particular problem though.

Also, D3 should be run OpenGL hands down. Make sure V-Sync is disabled in D3 and also in Nvidia's driver settings through the Nvidia Control Panel.

If this still doesn't improve anything I'd do a clean install with Nvidia's latest Drivers which are still 53.03 I believe. They have new ones on the way. Look into getting a program that completely removes any left over nvidia entries in your registry/system after you've uninstalled the drivers from your Add/Remove Programs. Guru3d usually has these utilities readily available.

What command lines have you added to the game?

If you right click and go to properties on your D3 shortcut you should have something like this in your "Target" field...

YourDriveLetter:\YourGamesDir\Descent3\MAIN.EXE -nomotionblur -nosparkles -nointro -playermessages -nomultitexture -deadzone0 0.1 -nooutragelogo -fastdemo -nolightmaps -nooutdoorfog -nopentium3 -launched -framecap 0 -nomusic

Note: of course where "YourDriveLetter" and "YourGamesDir" you'd have something like "C:" and "Games" or whatever you have setup. Also -deadzone0 0.1 only applies to joystick players. -nopentium3 also applies to just Pentium based Systems, so you won't need that either.

If this still doesn't improve anything I'd do a clean install with Nvidia's latest Drivers which are still 53.03 I believe. They have new ones on the way. Look into getting a program that completely removes any left over nvidia entries in your registry/system after you've uninstalled the drivers from your Add/Remove Programs. Guru3d usually has these utilities readily available.

The first thing that comes to mind here is to check your system memory for errors. IRQ_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL is a error I used to get before I started running my memory with more voltage. I had orignally thought it was my CPU that was causing the errors, so I ran it at a much lower speed then even the default and the crash was still there so I decided to check the memory in my system using memtest86 ( http://www.memtest86.com/ ). I was getting errors in the 400-500 MB range on my memory till I upped the voltage from 2.6v to 2.7v, now my system runs for weeks without a crash.

XP is a very stable operating system so I would say that whatever your problem is, it is likely NOT software related.

Anyway the best way to use that memtest program is to download the ISO version and burn it to a CDRW disk with your favorate burning software and then restart your system and boot from the CD. The standard test will find 99.999999999% of memory errors and it runs automatically. If you get memory errors the first thing I would try is to bump up the memory voltage. If you do not get memory errors, then we will have to start looking for problems elsewhere.

Tyranny wrote:Have you tried running D3 under a different compatibility mode? This really shouldn't need to be done but it maybe worth a try. Right Click and go to properties on your shortcut or main executable, whichever you're running from, and go to the compatibility tab. Check "Run this program in compatibility mode for" and then from the drop down menu pick Windows 98/ME and see if that helps.

Try running it in Windows 2000 mode as well and see if this improves anything. Theres no garuntee that any of this will help this particular problem though.

thats what i would suggest, at first i had to run mine in NT5.0 Compatability Mode......for some reasopn my D3 works just fine in XP Pro now
so i dunno what happend to it, but try the compatability modes first

I agree with Krom. To me it sounds like a RAM error. Get MEMTEST and run it for at least 12 hours to confirm the RAM is all good before doing anything else.

It seems unlikely, but "AGP Fastwrites" (in BIOS) can cause some strange errors.

You do realise of course that your GFX card is, in reality, nothing more than a GeForce2 don't you? It's a terrible card, and I think if you are gaming, you should at LEAST splash out for a next-generation card - el cheapo, like a Ti4200, or come into the 21st century and get an ATI 9600 Pro or XT card. That GFx card is going to be a HUGE bottleneck in your system.

Compatibility mode is probably not worth investigating, as Conventional Wisdom says D3 runs perfectly well under XP. And as Krom says, XP is ultra-stable, and main.exe crashing should NOT take windows with it!

To me, that indicates a more basic problem with your system. For future reference, don't update your BIOS (EVER!) unless there is a specific problem with your system that you can't live with, and the BIOS update directly addresses the issue you have.

Don't get disheartened about D3 - as we WILL solve your problem - and that's a FACT.

In the meantime, visit my D3 Help website for a bunch of info about playing D3 online. And for goodness sake, don't judge D3 by the single player mode - because it suxors something fierce!

Oh, and welcome to D3!

ok thanks for the tips I ran memtest for one hour just to make sure that I could got the iso burned correctly and to run at least one complete test. It didn't turn up any errors, but as I've seen elsewhere, you really do want to give memtests a while.
As to compatibilty mode I tried it in win2000 with no change. I guess I tend to agree with Krom and the others that this has to be something at a deeper level than just software.
Mobius, as to the video card... D3 and Quake2 is about the most gaming I've done in the last year. In fact, I haven't bought a new game since Mechwarrior 2:Mercenaries
Time and money just don't allow me to get too involved in it anymore. Hence, the video card I have reflects that to a certain degree--enough to do what I need nicely. And besides this very modest amount of gaming, my computer is used mainly for school work and internet. So, right now at least, I can't justify buying a newer video card.
You had mentioned that the card I have now would create a major bottleneck on my system: were you thinking of gaming or my system in general? If the latter, then I guess I'm lacking perspective because as far as performance goes I'm pretty surprised at how quick my computer is right now. Despite these blue screens, there doesn't seem to be any system lag or major performance issues--windows pop up quickly, webpages load nicely, complext .pdfs seem to render efficiently, so I'm pretty satisfied.

I guess what I'm saying is, I'm not really pushing the performance envelope right now And I don't want to sound snippy at you because the suggestion is a good one, I've always encouraged people to upgrade to the best they can afford because that (at least in theory) will last the longest. But for me right now--heck, I just upgraded to DDR a few weeks ago , so I'm not really cutting edge here. I tend to lag a bit behind. It's mostly a financial thing, ya know? I can't afford to upgrade my computer every two years, it's gotta last me for at least three. And to be honest, if I hadn't started recieving these blue screens, I'd still be running my old Athalon T-bird 1Ghz with 512Pc133 that I built in 2000.
So, meh, for what's it's worth I'll stick with what I've got, unless you think I'm being too naive. I think you're suggestion is good, but if the card I have now runs D3 smoothly and I don't really push things beyond that then I'm as happy as a clam.

I'll give the memory a thorough scrubbing tonight and report back tomorrow with anything else.
In the meantime I'll give Tyranny's tip a try and do a clean install of Nvidia's latest detonator drivers. Sounds easy enough and with the number of times I've monkied around with those drivers over the last few days it's probably not a bad idea.

(and yes, I do get paid by the word )

--dicax

Since compatibility issues usually are a common factor when running older games on XP (Even though D3 runs native to XP anyways) it was a suggestion that I felt was warranted and usually a very simple solution to certain problems gamers have on XP if it worked.

If it didn't then of course the logical thing would be to move on to the next possible solution. Don't knock the process of elimination Mobi, someone of your supposedly superior intellect should know better.

*cues STFU MOBIUS photo*

Well, both suggestions were helpful anyway. I recall once that my check engine light came on and all it was was an air-cleaner that was causing a fuel/air mixture problem. The owner's manual said that there was something wrong with the injectors! Anyway, just an illustration.

I checked the D3.exe for those command line options and it didn't list any. Don't know if it ought to but if it's ok/normal that it doesn't, I'll just leave it as-is.

Compatibility mode, while good for other apps (Like "Lander") is of no use in D3. There have been extensive discussions about this issue. So what I said still holds true.

I'm picking the RAM, BIOS or 3D API issue myself.

A new 3D card will improve your 2D desktop. That generation of cards wasn't so hot in 2D. I think a Ti4200 is around $60 these days, and they have great 2D, and will kick the living snot out of an MX in 3D.

You have to add in the command lines manually, they don't come by default.

use this in the misc section of d3 setup

-nointro -framecap 0 -playermessages -nooutragelogo -nosparkles -nomotionblur -nocompress -nooutdoorfog -usesmoothing

this is for OPENGL which you should be using and DirectX which is buggy as hell and crashes often

Ok, status report
Ran memtest86 for 16hrs+ no problems reported
I added the command line switches with no noticeable improvement over this specific problem
Did use driver cleaner 2 and followed the directions

Despite that, I just played D3 and it still generates the same problem only this time it didn't take the whole system with it. Before, when it would crash, it would sometimes lock the system up forcing a restart. Other times D3 would generate some kind of an error report and the OS would seem unstable so I would reset anyway. This time something a little different happened, instead of going to the actual stop screen forcing a reset, it just closed the program and generated that familiar "this program has caused a problem and needs to be shut down" window and then you can choose to report it to MS or not. So, like I said, it didn't take the whole system with it.
But it still crashed.
Mobius, thanks for the encouragement friend But I'm afraid I'm strapped even for a $60 Ti, but you could paypal me $60 and I'd spend your money wisely
Anyway, what should I try next?

Is your system overclocked or your GFX card overclocked as well?

Is this a fresh install of XP, an existing one, or an "upgrade" from a previous version of Windows?

Nope haven't overclocked anything. As for the install of XP, that's a long sordid story stemming from the original video card, which I think was bad. You see, when I had these problems (bsods of various flavors) with the old video card, I figured there must be a component that failed. So, I replaced everything, mobo, proc., memory, harddrive after multiple formats and re-installs. The only thing I didn't replace was the video card. So I built my new system along with the old video card (which I thought was fine, mind you) and the problems came back. The common thread? The video card. But in the meantime I had completed about 5 formats and re-installs. The last one, the one I'm using right now, was still with the old video card. Now, it runs fine except for these errors (like the one with D3). So, if that old video card farked something up, even replacing the video card and drivers may not have been enough. There may be something within the OS that I need to replace.
So either I format and reinstall (again) or find the problem dig it out and fix it. The latter is preferable since I don't want to sit through the 6 hours it takes to get ALL the updates for Windows, Office, Anti-virus all over again for the umpteenth time.

I would like to point out that D3 has a glaring mem leek. ...sorta. It "grabs" about 50 meg outta your HD to cache to and doesn't let it go. After playing D3, i routinely "loose" 50 megs of memory off my C drive (primary drive) and will continue to do so each time I start the game up.

Now, I doubt this has anyting to do with you, but I'll say that I run it fine on XP myself. Might be ...omg... you're using on board sound ..hehe ok... OBS is getting better these days, but my experiance has shown me that sound more often than not is the cause of "quick" unexplained crashes. Barrow a sound card from someone, disable the OBS and give it a whirl. .. go thru the redetect steps in D3 setup of course. GL!

Another note: You must RUN d3 after an install but before patching. I recommend jumping into single player.

I forget who pointed this out, a few years back, but now that I am doing that, I'm having much fewer problems with crashing (aside from the occasional random that I get for no apparent reason, and the multiplayer games list-sort related crashes.)

Duper wrote:Now, I doubt this has anyting to do with you, but I'll say that I run it fine on XP myself. Might be ...omg... you're using on board sound ..hehe ok... OBS is getting better these days, but my experiance has shown me that sound more often than not is the cause of "quick" unexplained crashes. Barrow a sound card from someone, disable the OBS and give it a whirl. .. go thru the redetect steps in D3 setup of course. GL!

Actually, onboard sound has come a very long way since the olden days. As it stands, as long as you avoid any "AC97" setups, you're pretty much guaranteed good on-board sound. Hell, my onboard sound (nVidia SoundStorm) undoubtedly smacks around anything Creative has to offer to date.

dicax: If you go back a few threads, theres a link to a spot on Microsoft's website where you can order all the critical updates (upto October '03) on CD for free. Supposedly it takes 2 - 4 weeks for delivery, so mine should show up sometime soon seeing as this is the fourth week....

Access violations w/ D3 1.4 are (unfortunately) quite common so you will probably have to live w/ one once in a while. XP BSODs are another story, there should be none when playing D3 (I'm using XPP and haven't had one since I installed my system). Most likely a driver for one of your hardware components is the culprit, go walk the net and make sure you have the latest drivers for everything installed -- especially the mainboard and sound drivers.

Ok, seems things are working ok now.
I did a little investigating on my onboard sound and, yup AC97. So disabled that and put in an Aopen I had and once I got that up and running, I played D3 for about 1/2 an hour with no problems. Once I have a bit more time I think I'll be able to give it a good workthrough. When I disabled my onboard sound I went ahead and played D3 with no sound and it played great for a good long time, so that led me to think that sure enough it was the soundcard.
So, all told, looks like both my graphics drivers and my sound drivers were giving me grief. As far as that onboard sound goes, I just don't understand why Asus would put a crappy chipset like that on their boards. Oh well, chalk that one up as a reminder to do a little more research on the boards I buy. In my defense though, Asus really didn't tell me what kind of sound I was getting, or, at least, didn't tell me that it was an AC97 chipset. They could have at least put something on there that is on the HCL.
Oh well. I'm just glad it's working now and I bet most of my other problems go away now, too.

MD: I'll have to grab that CD. I was originally planning on just waiting for SP2 but that has turned out to be a longer wait than I bargained for. In the meantime, it would be nice to have all those updates on CD--much quicker to install that way.
Thanks for the help guys.

If you still have a lock-up issue, go into bios and check what your AGP apeture is. With my ATI 9700 I had to set it to 64 to keep games from crashing.

AC97 huh? EEEeeewwwwwwww ... (hehehe) Yeah, that chipset Is garbage. It's fine for browsing the net and suych, but I've heard nothing but problems with the AC97. Nvidia Storm that is the good one? There is good on board sound.. ya just have to look for it. :
Glad to hear it's working!

Uhm, guys -- IIRC AC97 is just a standard, not a chipset. I do have two ASUS boards w/ SoundMAX chips (AD1985 & AD1980) and absolutely no problem w/ them -- great sound too..

Edit: AC97 is a codec standard. SoundMAX chips are manufactured by Analog Devices (click) and not that bad You did grab the latest mainboard drivers, did you ?

Edit2: Here's an interesting one from the above site:

31 I upgraded my Operating System to Windows XP and now SoundMAX causes crashes.

Older SoundMAX driver software that was never shipped with Windows XP has known stability problems when upgrading to Windows XP (most notably driver version 5.12.01.3030 and earlier). Make sure you have the latest driver from your computer or motherboard maker.

Ok.. my bad. It still sucks.

yeah...tis working much better. The drivers I had were the most up-to-date and they were still causing (at least contributing) to my crashes. So, for me at least, moving to the aopen board is working much better. Not to bash the AC97 guys though (lots of love for ya)